sts, questions and obsevations on class balance and respecing

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05-12-2013, 11:55 PM
Darko

sts, questions and obsevations on class balance and respecing

sts,

SO I have been respecing on all charcters to see what the difference is. I will use the +10 attribute for this test....

so for every +10 in each category

Rouge

strength : +100 health
Dexterity: +30 health, +5% bonsus damage, Dodge +.75%, Critical +.25%, damage .3
intelligen: +50 health, +.15 crit, +.3 damage, mana +100

Warrior

Strength : +100 health, bonus damage +5%, damage +.2
Dexterirty: +30 health, , +dodge .50%, critical, +.25%, damage +.3
Intelligence +30 health, +100 mana

Mage

Stength: +100 health
Dexterity: +50 health, dodge +.50%, crit +.35%, damage +.5
Intelligence: +30 health, bonus damage +5%, mana +100, damage +.2

so whats the take on this ??

these need to be looked at... with the skills that are set it is properly set to make it balanced... Because of there damage skills, a rouge can load up on STR have high health and still produce the most damage in the game.... lets look more at depth

rouge-- if they take 10 out of dex and put it in strenght, now have70 more health which is significant but only lost .3 damage and few percentages on dodge and crit, which doesnt even put a dent in their damage output while giving them more health

warrior-- if a warrior puts anything in dex, he loses 70 health points (significant, while only gaining a measly .1 more damage (what does that realyl do?? instead of 240 hit you do 241? and since warriors damage is so nerfed and they have to have high health to do anything...its pointless to put anythingt anywhere else)

Mage-- they get +20 more health for dex , or +70 health for strength..and getting dex actually gives them the most damage, more damage, more health?? they can benefit from putting into dex.

SO basically a warrior is left out...there is absolutely no benefit to dual specing or putting attirbutes in other areas, while the other two classes can gain the warriors strngth (health) and still maintain a high damage output... both mages and rouges have a chance to crit at 250% ... can the warrior have at least 150% something?? so our damage isnt like a lvl 15 rouge... i also love how the health is distributed the rouge can get +100,+50, or +30 a mage can get +100, +50, or +30... but warrior is only +100, +30, +30.... where is the warriors +50 option?

next compare mage and rouge in mana (THIS IS A MAGES STRENGTH!!!) rouges gets +20 more health than mage, the same exact mana, .1 more damage, yet this is supposed to be for the mage!!!... See how a rouge can benefit from putting attirbutes into strength and INT, while the other classes cant?? no wonder why they are so op.., and a mage gets same +20 when going to dex compared to rouge.... so basically the warrior is the third wheel... and cant do anything well except use horn....
05-13-2013, 01:28 AM
Prototypedwar

sts, questions and obsevations on class balance and respecing

Rogue not rouge
05-13-2013, 02:35 AM
falmear

For PVE I think warriors need a buff in damage. If you have more then one warrior in the party, it takes significantly longer.
05-13-2013, 08:21 AM
Rare

Maybe I didn't understand correctly. For rogue skill dmg is much lower without dex. Look at the skill damage change when losing the 10 dex. Its substantial compared to the measly 70 health you get.

Did you check skill damage at all with the different stats for each class?
05-13-2013, 08:47 AM
Darko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aedenos

Maybe I didn't understand correctly. For rogue skill dmg is much lower without dex. Look at the skill damage change when losing the 10 dex. Its substantial compared to the measly 70 health you get.

Did you check skill damage at all with the different stats for each class?

No that's my next project :)
05-13-2013, 08:50 AM
Rare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko

No that's my next project :)

I think you'll notice (especially with Rogue as that's what I'm most familiar with) that removing points from your dominant stats will have great affect on other things. As an example, damage. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I was to say moving just 40 points from DEX to INT dropped my overall skill damage by almost 75 (for Aimed Shot). It seems kind of small, but when you factor in Crit and bonus damage, it can get pretty high.
05-13-2013, 01:22 PM
Darko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aedenos

I think you'll notice (especially with Rogue as that's what I'm most familiar with) that removing points from your dominant stats will have great affect on other things. As an example, damage. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I was to say moving just 40 points from DEX to INT dropped my overall skill damage by almost 75 (for Aimed Shot). It seems kind of small, but when you factor in Crit and bonus damage, it can get pretty high.

Even with that drop I guarantee u that you hit harder than a warrior
05-13-2013, 01:59 PM
Wowsome

I wish I can go back in time and start out with a rogue :/
05-13-2013, 03:24 PM
Rare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko

Even with that drop I guarantee u that you hit harder than a warrior

Well, yeah. I'm suppose to. But even with the up in Health my health is still not near a warrior.
05-13-2013, 05:41 PM
cukimay

sorry but is this true?
Dexterity: +30 health, +5% bonsus damage, Dodge +.75%, Critical +.25%, damage .3
intelligen: +50 health, +.15 crit, +.3 damage, mana +100

so that means putting up 1 dex give the same amount of dmg with 1 int?
05-13-2013, 07:03 PM
bluotaku

Dex does not give mages the most damage. The bonus damage from int outweighs the extra raw dmg from dex, and the increased crit comes no where near making up that dmg. In addition, mage spells cost lots of mana and have low CD, so we're constantly firing off spells. You'd better be prepared to down mana pots like Lindsay Lohan with vodka on a Saturday night if you're going to cripple your mana pool by going lots of dex.
05-13-2013, 07:04 PM
Darko

Quote:

Originally Posted by cukimay

sorry but is this true?
Dexterity: +30 health, +5% bonsus damage, Dodge +.75%, Critical +.25%, damage .3
intelligen: +50 health, +.15 crit, +.3 damage, mana +100

so that means putting up 1 dex give the same amount of dmg with 1 int?

Yep exactly my point....however ur dps would be lower
05-14-2013, 04:29 AM
Asireuz

Bluotaku is entirely correct. Dex is not a good alternative for Int for a sorcerer. The best reason to even consider adding dex as a passive is for health, the increase in damage is not very good, the increases in crit/dodge are negligible.

Every point taken out of your main stat hurts bonus damage. Most of your damage points come from a weapon, which is multiplied by your bonus damage. Try to unequip everything and then check your damage. That's the amount you got from those stats you talk about.
05-14-2013, 06:02 AM
Rare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darko

Yep exactly my point....however ur dps would be lower

There's a very large trade off I already mentioned.
05-14-2013, 09:25 AM
beeckazoid

Uhmm... Im german dont wonder if i misunderstood or write bad english xD

A warrior is NO dmg.dealer.. So they should put the int stat for a warrior higher with gainin hp.. Like 7hp per one int.. My normal attack with stormsword(based on dps) does 160-170.. With entombed hammer the same.. Maybe a difference of 5... Skill dmg is slightly increased wit stormsw., but only on paper ;) warriors use skills no normal attacks ^^ besides there is a skill, which grants 50str, 25% dmg, 25% crit, so with cheap equip n pets, you can get a dmg of 210, 180dps, 290% bonus dmg, minimum 72% crit... What you want more as tank?!?! XD

The dmg,dps n bonus dmg from rogue....
Set all stats on dex, passive skill dex, int and dmg will be higher again... And its a question of skilling.. With a bow u just need dmg, no dps :)
05-15-2013, 10:00 PM
luckyboys

1 point dex give more damge than 1 point int :D
05-16-2013, 01:10 AM
Energizeric

Problem is you are not accounting for using an actual weapon. Weapon damage is far higher than base damage, and it gets multiplied by bonus damage. So the highest damage build is the one with the highest bonus damage. The more powerful the weapon, the larger the difference will be.
05-16-2013, 05:24 AM
KillaSkillz

I play warrior, well, I used to.. I don't play anymore.

There is only one way to build each of the characters to be effective in this game. The only reason to make it customizable is to sell respecs.

A dodge warrior can stand there a long time but cant do significant damage. Init is useless to a warrior. Str is the only way to go, but the weapons don't add enough dmg to be a tank.

Warriors are armored cars. Good for standing and taking hits without dieing, but nothing else.

I have no clue about the other classes, I won't play them since the one I want to play sucks why would I bother to spend the money to try another?
05-17-2013, 01:17 AM
Altic

Quote:

Originally Posted by falmear

For PVE I think warriors need a buff in damage. If you have more then one warrior in the party, it takes significantly longer.

Keep in mind, when you suggest a change for just PvE or just PvP, STS will just do they change for both, causing further imbalances.
Ex. The Aimed Shot critical fix; i understand it can be bothersome in PvP, but in PvE that is a rogues MUST HAVE SKILL, GG STS.