Ways to encourage team play in new pve maps. Parlay

As title, how do we encourage maps that do not exclude any class?

Let's be honest, atm preferred classes in pve maps is, rogue>mage>warrior.
Rogues are generally best followed by well geared mages then op tanks. Yes you & your friends may be excluded from that generality, but I'm focusing on pugs.

Suggestions

(1) A cross class buff in pve.
All 3 classes in a pt receive a modest buff similar to a klass/shazbot buff

(2) create a cross class combo such as exists in pl.
Example: war initiates combo with jug, then mage fireball, then rouge aim shot- now all effected receive a bonus damage. Just like pl a word like "hell storm" pops up showing players they correctly used the skills in succession to produce the combo. Skills involved in combo may be better in different types or sequences idk, discus.

(3) create 3 new types of mob who specifically significantly nutrilise each type of class.
Imagine an antirogue, antimage, and antiwarrior, each of those would have a weakness to the opposite class. Example: a antirogue would damage the heck out a rogue, but a mage could damage the hell out it just because it's a mage. Or a simple buff vs weakness for enemy classes. War>rogue>mage>war ect...

(4)Give wars a permanent pull like a a terror blade, wow

Ideas?
How do we have maps that encourage all classes when the reality is that damage/armor rules pve generally?

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Originally Posted by Stephencobear

As title, how do we encourage maps that do not exclude any class?

Let's be honest, atm preferred classes in pve maps is, rogue>mage>warrior.
Rogues are generally best followed by well geared mages then op tanks. Yes you & your friends may be excluded from that generality, but I'm focusing on pugs.

Suggestions

(1) A cross class buff in pve.
All 3 classes in a pt receive a modest buff similar to a klass/shazbot buff

(2) create a cross class combo such as exists in pl.
Example: war initiates combo with jug, then mage fireball, then rouge aim shot- now all effected receive a bonus damage. Just like pl a word like "hell storm" pops up showing players they correctly used the skills in succession to produce the combo. Skills involved in combo may be better in different types or sequences idk, discus.

(3) create 3 new types of mob who specifically significantly nutrilise each type of class.
Imagine an antirogue, antimage, and antiwarrior, each of those would have a weakness to the opposite class. Example: a antirogue would damage the heck out a rogue, but a mage could damage the hell out it just because it's a mage. Or a simple buff vs weakness for enemy classes. War>rogue>mage>war ect...

(4)Give wars a permanent pull like a a terror blade, wow

Ideas?
How do we have maps that encourage all classes when the reality is that damage/armor rules pve generally?

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I run Maus mostly and would take an Ebon tank over any other class 100%. Even Elite Maus i would take a warrior with Ebon as they can solo there comfortably. Deep marsh an Ebon Tank just shredds boss health. Jewel farming i use my tank and as for future harder maps i think Ebon Tank will still rule

Just my opinion

1. Yes. But I would suggest an op buff if all classes were in the map. If it’s only a small buff, it would still be rogue legends.
2. Never played pl so not sure exactly what you mean. Sounds cool how you described it. Think it would be a good idea.
3. Although it sounds good, it would still be a problem. Players would just kill the rogue/mage weakness mobs and leave the tank weakness mobs behind. Unless they add a map where you need to clear 100% of mobs before boss spawns, warriors will still be undesirable.
4. Again, sounds good but won’t help much imo. Fighting mobs is the “easy” part of pve, with the only difficult part being the boss fight. This is why it is rogue legends. Warriors with a permanent pull will not help as much as another rogue/mage in the pt.

Additional ideas that I have suggested before is to add %boss damage buffs to warrior and mage skills to make them more desirable. Example: horn of renew buff allies with 100% boss damage for the duration. Or: mage lightning bolt does 200% additional damage to bosses. The boss fight is the main imbalance right now in pve. Give the other 2 classes a way to fight bosses, or nerf the heck out of rogues while fighting mobs.

Simple - Reduce mage and rogue armor/health by such a huge margin that dps/dmg classes can't feasibly fight any mobs without a tank to take the aggro.

Ebon tanks desirable in parties is great... not really relevant for the other 99% though... [emoji38]

I like the combo idea but people would only bother if it was OP (I too have never played PL so not sure how powerful a combo we are talking here!)




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@illumminati
I won’t argue the value of an ebon tank, but I was looking for ways that all classes would have more value as opposed to one class being good as long as one piece of gear was obtained.

@Korabiv
1 the only difference would be that a 3+ party of rogues would not be way more effective than the buff of a well rounded party.

3 my thought was that if the mob layout was random them a pug might not be in the position to only kill one type of mob to move on, but I see your point.

4 may be less practical to help, maybe just my pl nostalgia where tanks had way more of a purpose ;)

And Dalmony’s idea to have a map reduction % to rogues/mages health and armor seems a good one to necessitate wars

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Originally Posted by Dalmony

Simple - Reduce mage and rogue armor/health by such a huge margin that dps/dmg classes can't feasibly fight any mobs without a tank to take the aggro.

Ebon tanks desirable in parties is great... not really relevant for the other 99% though... [emoji38]

I like the combo idea but people would only bother if it was OP (I too have never played PL so not sure how powerful a combo we are talking here!)




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Ngl but I see some tanks who can't even properly hold agro.
+1 with the buffs for all classes in pt and the combo buff, sadly it's been recommended before but hopefully this thread will have a better yield.

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Originally Posted by Dalmony

Simple - Reduce mage and rogue armor/health by such a huge margin that dps/dmg classes can't feasibly fight any mobs without a tank to take the aggro.

Ebon tanks desirable in parties is great... not really relevant for the other 99% though... [emoji38]

I like the combo idea but people would only bother if it was OP (I too have never played PL so not sure how powerful a combo we are talking here!)




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I think this would be a good idea for rogues only. Rogues would be best damage but worst health, warriors would be worst damage and best health, and mages would be in the middle for both.

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Originally Posted by Korabiv

I think this would be a good idea for rogues only. Rogues would be best damage but worst health, warriors would be worst damage and best health, and mages would be in the middle for both.

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Exactly. But neither able to survive without the tank otherwise tank would still be left out.

Rogue should be for damage
Mage for crowd control (stun freeze etc)
Tank to aggro & take damage

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Idk but war is quite welcomed in pve now because the pull or reflect
I would say a mob that takes 0damage (complete resistance) to 2class
To make sure that every class is needed

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Originally Posted by Irg

Idk but war is quite welcomed in pve now because the pull or reflect
I would say a mob that takes 0damage (complete resistance) to 2class
To make sure that every class is needed

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Creating certain mobs that can *only* be damaged by a warrior seems a bit contrary to the would-be purpose of warriors.

More interesting development on that could be to have difficult mobs which can be defeated significantly more quickly by dps with an active warrior buff. Create a buff called "Uller's Blessing" and have it applied to rogues and mages when a warrior uses certain skills.

Maybe... :-0.... Build it into a story quest connected to Ullers tomb so it activates for new players when they are around that stage of gameplay.



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I would not like to depend on someone of each class to be able to run properly,

i think this would make the gameplay way too much dependant on something not always available and i don't know if it would be a good thing, i love to play this game but its rare that i have big chunk of time to play it, many time i have just a bit of time to log in, doing some map very fast and log off...

If every time i log for short time i have to find absolutely a rogue and a mage to run, that would not be very good for me and many more in my situation,
i really prefer that is it possible for any class to run with any class if they want.

a good example to show you that this will not work is "triforce", those combo with Ellie, Gobie and Hawken, did u ever see a party using it?
i think i saw once 3 peoples using it when they where just release, never again after!

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Originally Posted by PatD

I would not like to depend on someone of each class to be able to run properly,

i think this would make the gameplay way too much dependant on something not always available and i don't know if it would be a good thing, i love to play this game but its rare that i have big chunk of time to play it, many time i have just a bit of time to log in, doing some map very fast and log off...

If every time i log for short time i have to find absolutely a rogue and a mage to run, that would not be very good for me and many more in my situation,
i really prefer that is it possible for any class to run with any class if they want.

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Good point. I should point out I didn't want any map to be unplayable by the average pug, I merely wanted it to be faster for a well balanced group.

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Originally Posted by PatD

a good example to show you that this will not work is "triforce", those combo with Ellie, Gobie and Hawken, did u ever see a party using it?
i think i saw once 3 peoples using it when they where just release, never again after!

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Thb all those triforce combos are useless. Two are defensive and the one offensive combo is terribly weak.
The other problem inherent to triforce is that the pets stray around or lag back or routinely attack barrels behind you. They are never attacking the front where you want them to be.

Any pl players here that are familiar with combos and the mega combo ?

Great input folks ty

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Originally Posted by illumminati

I run Maus mostly and would take an Ebon tank over any other class 100%. Even Elite Maus i would take a warrior with Ebon as they can solo there comfortably. Deep marsh an Ebon Tank just shredds boss health. Jewel farming i use my tank and as for future harder maps i think Ebon Tank will still rule

Just my opinion

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But warriors at current state of the game are only useful if they have op proc weapons, and onlt rich players can buy... if you don't use TB or Ebon Aegis you're the last option for a fast farming pt.

However, this doesn't applies to rogues. A good geared rogue is very good, in any map. Obviously, the best weapon will be welcome, but Tainted geared rogues are pretty good. Tainted geared warriors are totally useless

I liked your point, but also, agree with PatD. Some players (like me) don't have enough time to play, so they don't want to create a pt otherwise they can't finish the map.

But, the game is really unbalanced right now... Just look for timed runs in any map, you will just find rogues. Look at Hydra map, Rogues rule there. If you want to finish the map quickly, you want damage, and Rogues are designed to do it, no problem, but the problem in my opinion, it's because they will not die, they don't need a warrior soaking the damage, and this is what make warriors useless.

I hope that in the next expansion they add harder maps, where you need all classes (High health/damage mobs and bosses), combos like you said, and also I was thinking about no heal/mana potions available in some maps, I think that this would makes mages and warriors way better because they have good healing abilities.

I think that this can help to fix some problems

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There are so many possibilities.

To those complaining that they'd rather just run with whoever was available - I bet you wouldn't run if only 2/3 tanks were available...

If you as a rogue or mage appreciate being able to hop on in work and find an insta party then consider that for anyone who plays a tank and isn't OP, this isn't possible for them.

It's about improving the game mechanics and making it inclusive for all players.

All this would be is reversing the current scenario. Currently running with a party with 1, 2, or even 3 tanks is 100% "doable." There is nothing stopping you forming this party and completing any map you want, however its currently undesirable and people would try to avoid, because it's the slowest option.

Would be nice to have an arlor where you log in and tank+3ps, or even possibly *shock* 2 tank 2 dps, are the preferred choices of party. And parties of 4 dps you could do if desperate, maybe, but in practise nobody would. People would *prefer* to run with a tank in party.