Pocket Legends Financial Crisis.

Hey guys. Clear things up first :

1. This is NOT a rant thread. Just doing exactly what the section is for, suggestions and feed back.

2. I am NOT whining nor am I complaining, with or without these suggestions, game is still fun.

Okay so everyone knows with the release of Ao3, prices starting from (if I remember correctly):

Scimitar: 2m-150k (if you find a buyer)
Hammer: 4m-400k (demand exists)
Wraith Armor: Almost priceless-600k

And this all happened in a span of 2 weeks? Sorry don't remember exact date of Ao3 release, plus allowance of a few days for people getting used to it/items actually coming out.

Being a student of economics (NOT flattering myself or putting on a superiority complex or such here), I understand the basic supply-demand and money supply concept. So far I can see these two problems of PL (financially only):

1. Too little demand with an excessive supply.

We can't deny that PL player base is growing, but not rapidly to the fact that there is ALWAYS a market or new players coming in. Hopefully the android/pc release will fix this but until then, our community only has a few (I'd estimate a couple of hundred) loyal, persistent, and experienced players.

This being said, with how the current game system works, you level cap, and gear up as best as you can, the existing market is decreasing, and fast, very fast. These couple of hundred players, lets say theoretically 200 people, can make one bird, bear, and enchantress. Thats a maximum of 3 sets of gear per person (assuming he only buys one void,cosmos,rift set and passes around). So 600 sets total and the market is 0 and dropping demand significantly, not totally eliminating as demand always exists, but dropping a lot.

Basic supply-demand states that the lower demand is, the lower prices people are willing to pay become. Also the higher the supply, the lower prices become too. Both are currently happening in PL. Demand is falling daily, and supply is growing daily. No wonder prices have been dropping so much.

My suggestion to this, is:

1. Adding a system (my recent upgrading/forging suggestion), that eliminates current supply. Upgrading/forging that will destroy gear if failed, will increase demand since people will need more, hence price increase.

2. The second suggestion is also my 2nd seen problem:

2a. Too little gold income/money supply.

Currently I've been noticing and experiencing my gold draining into pots/elixirs/even gear to be able to cope up with the new Ao3 area. No I am not saying nerf Ao3 to make it easy, but come up with a way to increase gold income.

One reason why demand is slipping a lot is that gold is also a problem. The players available to sell gear to is already slipping, moreover money is a problem. A few friends and I tried different methods of farming gold alone, and it seems that it just isn't enough to farm gold alone (selling nonwhite gear included) to make it worthwhile. Basing from previous posts I've also read that making 100k/hour as a group is the most I've seen. 100k/hour with 5 members is only 20k per hour. 20k is possibly spent on 3-5 Ao3 levels varying on ability of your group.

My suggestion is :

1. Come up with some sort of method that increases the gold earned. Like new "Accessory" or "Jewelry" items that drop from normal mobs only that sell for quite an amount of gold. This encourages both normal finishing of levels, and stimulates demand at the same time.

These are just my major experiences, suggestions and feedbacks, about the game. I realise that this is extremely difficult and lengthy to accomplish but we gotta start somewhere. I also want to make it clear that this is not a demanding thread, but like I said a suggestion and feedback thread.

I feel like I've written a mini-essay for school, so any feedback would be appreciated :P

Cheers guys, been having so much fun. Just hope my point of view would help.

EDIT:

I've realised my participation in a market place (Sagkais Market) can make my post seem biased as to earning more gold ONLY. I understand this is what it may seem like, I apologise. My main purpose is that currently, there is no other form of goal or achievement if not earn as much gold as possible for future use. So yes, the aim is to earn more gold, but not for selfishness or greed, but because I want to excel in the game or achieve as much as I can. If there were pvp points etc, I would probably be busy trying to earn as much of it as I can too.

Thanks to those who pointed it out.

~Speechless~

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Originally Posted by FluffNStuff

~Speechless~

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Still feedback nonetheless :P Good speechless I hope?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EllieIdol

Hey guys. Clear things up first :

1. This is NOT a rant thread. Just doing exactly what the section is for, suggestions and feed back.

2. I am NOT whining nor am I complaining, with or without these suggestions, game is still fun.

Okay so everyone knows with the release of Ao3, prices starting from (if I remember correctly):

Scimitar: 2m-150k (if you find a buyer)
Hammer: 4m-400k (demand exists)
Wraith Armor: Almost priceless-600k

And this all happened in a span of 2 weeks? Sorry don't remember exact date of Ao3 release, plus allowance of a few days for people getting used to it/items actually coming out.

Being a student of economics (NOT flattering myself or putting on a superiority complex or such here), I understand the basic supply-demand and money supply concept. So far I can see these two problems of PL (financially only):

1. Too little demand with an excessive supply.

We can't deny that PL player base is growing, but not rapidly to the fact that there is ALWAYS a market or new players coming in. Hopefully the android/pc release will fix this but until then, our community only has a few (I'd estimate a couple of hundred) loyal, persistent, and experienced players.

This being said, with how the current game system works, you level cap, and gear up as best as you can, the existing market is decreasing, and fast, very fast. These couple of hundred players, lets say theoretically 200 people, can make one bird, bear, and enchantress. Thats a maximum of 3 sets of gear per person (assuming he only buys one void,cosmos,rift set and passes around). So 600 sets total and the market is 0 and dropping demand significantly, not totally eliminating as demand always exists, but dropping a lot.

Basic supply-demand states that the lower demand is, the lower prices people are willing to pay become. Also the higher the supply, the lower prices become too. Both are currently happening in PL. Demand is falling daily, and supply is growing daily. No wonder prices have been dropping so much.

My suggestion to this, is:

1. Adding a system (my recent upgrading/forging suggestion), that eliminates current supply. Upgrading/forging that will destroy gear if failed, will increase demand since people will need more, hence price increase.

2. The second suggestion is also my 2nd seen problem:

2a. Too little gold income/money supply.

Currently I've been noticing and experiencing my gold draining into pots/elixirs/even gear to be able to cope up with the new Ao3 area. No I am not saying nerf Ao3 to make it easy, but come up with a way to increase gold income.

One reason why demand is slipping a lot is that gold is also a problem. The players available to sell gear to is already slipping, moreover money is a problem. A few friends and I tried different methods of farming gold alone, and it seems that it just isn't enough to farm gold alone (selling nonwhite gear included) to make it worthwhile. Basing from previous posts I've also read that making 100k/hour as a group is the most I've seen. 100k/hour with 5 members is only 20k per hour. 20k is possibly spent on 3-5 Ao3 levels varying on ability of your group.

My suggestion is :

1. Come up with some sort of method that increases the gold earned. Like new "Accessory" or "Jewelry" items that drop from normal mobs only that sell for quite an amount of gold. This encourages both normal finishing of levels, and stimulates demand at the same time.

These are just my major experiences, suggestions and feedbacks, about the game. I realise that this is extremely difficult and lengthy to accomplish but we gotta start somewhere. I also want to make it clear that this is not a demanding thread, but like I said a suggestion and feedback thread.

I feel like I've written a mini-essay for school, so any feedback would be appreciated :P

Cheers guys, been having so much fun. Just hope my point of view would help.

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That is why I got Elly in the Market. Perfect Fit XD

While I do not agree with the post, I atleast understand where you are coming from. Then I looked at your "market" and realized this is just a farmer who isnt making as much money anymore. This is like the Hummer dealership wondering why no one is buying an $80,000 gass guzzling beast of a truck in a down economy.

Prices are dictated by the buyers. Gold is being sucked out of the economy because Ao3 is "hard" causing players to buy potions and elixers. Ao3 items arent as good at lvl 50 as Ao2 items were at 45, so there is a vaccume of "the best items" that everyone wants, and will pay millions for. They can either farm it themselves, or can not afford the price.

Adding more rare items to sell is not a fix to the situation you have described. If you want more inflation just so you can make more gold from your store, then you should be asking for every Ao1-2-3 zone to lock the boss until all trash is cleared, up the price of sold junk items, or add more gold to the chests. You could also nurf the bosses in Ao3, but that would upset more people than it makes happy.

Being an economics major I would expect all of this to be obvious to you, but then I understand you farm and sell items just to have gold.

I think the Devs wanted this to happen, to help put a stop to all the insanely rich farmers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stratospaly

While I do not agree with the post, I atleast understand where you are coming from. Then I looked at your "market" and realized this is just a farmer who isnt making as much money anymore. This is like the Hummer dealership wondering why no one is buying an $80,000 gass guzzling beast of a truck in a down economy.

Prices are dictated by the buyers. Gold is being sucked out of the economy because Ao3 is "hard" causing players to buy potions and elixers. Ao3 items arent as good at lvl 50 as Ao2 items were at 45, so there is a vaccume of "the best items" that everyone wants, and will pay millions for. They can either farm it themselves, or can not afford the price.

Adding more rare items to sell is not a fix to the situation you have described. If you want more inflation just so you can make more gold from your store, then you should be asking for every Ao1-2-3 zone to lock the boss until all trash is cleared, up the price of sold junk items, or add more gold to the chests. You could also nurf the bosses in Ao3, but that would upset more people than it makes happy.

Being an economics major I would expect all of this to be obvious to you, but then I understand you farm and sell items just to have gold.

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1. I did NOT ask for more rare items. An upgrading system would only eliminate the current items that is over supplied and just idle in someones bank or treasury. Not only will it change up the economy, but provide new goals for the PL community. The "best gear" each campaign is multiplied by the amount of upgrades allowed.

2. I am not basing it as a farmer. Even without our marketplace, then what? I am less than a week old in the group and have already been noticing these trends. I pretty much have a lot of the same comments from different individual players, farmers or not.

The one reason why gold is so wanted is because it is the only asset that does not depreciate. Overtime it is only appreciating therefore everyone is after it. You can ask any decent player in game and they'd tell you they would rather gold than a duplicate amount of gear sets. You can see it from most OTHER selling threads.

I understand how my being part of a market place distorts my views, but everyone is their own farmer. Be it in a group or not. We just happen to find it more efficient and fun to play in one. Trust me, profits made from being in a marketplace such as us are no way near how much you make solo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeardedBear

I think the Devs wanted this to happen, to help put a stop to all the insanely rich farmers.

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IMO, there will always be the "richest" or even insanely rich players. They'd always exist no matter how much stuff are. Granted that they put in enough time and effort to get there, then I don't see why they can't be. In my opinion, this adds an even larger gap in between these insanely rich players and the poor-normal players. And no, I am nowhere near that insanely, or even rich part if it gets to your mind.

Another reason to nerf the rush ;)
And I have an inkling we'll see it happen sooner than later.

If the map3 oa2 was not fixed, now u would have a place to farm gold! 100k per hour solo was possible
Now u can earn 40k per hour solo in map 1 oa2, goodluck
(for level 50 i mean)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeardedBear

I think the Devs wanted this to happen, to help put a stop to all the insanely rich farmers.

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This, and not just to stop the insanely rich farmers, but essentially to put a ~tax~ on all farming. In no other game can you farm items for ~free~. This usually comes in the form of wear and tear on your items that you need to pay to repair. Since that is not in this game, then the tax is health / mana pots for basic play, and elixers for playing in a style above your level, be it a higher board or rush farming. This is usually used to keep an economy under control, and since they were not needed at all in AO2, we see what happens, and the prices sky rocket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FluffNStuff

This, and not just to stop the insanely rich farmers, but essentially to put a ~tax~ on all farming. In no other game can you farm items for ~free~. This usually comes in the form of wear and tear on your items that you need to pay to repair. Since that is not in this game, then the tax is health / mana pots for basic play, and elixers for playing in a style above your level, be it a higher board or rush farming. This is usually used to keep an economy under control, and since they were not needed at all in AO2, we see what happens, and the prices sky rocket.

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Agree. Farming always has its costs, this separates efficient farmers who use the least possible cost to farm. Though in the long term, if this continues, your farming would be really costly if what your farming for cannot be sold anymore. Not unless you are farming for gold itself, then you have no problem as gold is always a good asset.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EllieIdol

Hey guys. Clear things up first :

1. This is NOT a rant thread. Just doing exactly what the section is for, suggestions and feed back.

2. I am NOT whining nor am I complaining, with or without these suggestions, game is still fun.

Okay so everyone knows with the release of Ao3, prices starting from (if I remember correctly):

Scimitar: 2m-150k (if you find a buyer)
Hammer: 4m-400k (demand exists)
Wraith Armor: Almost priceless-600k

And this all happened in a span of 2 weeks? Sorry don't remember exact date of Ao3 release, plus allowance of a few days for people getting used to it/items actually coming out.

Being a student of economics (NOT flattering myself or putting on a superiority complex or such here), I understand the basic supply-demand and money supply concept. So far I can see these two problems of PL (financially only):

1. Too little demand with an excessive supply.

We can't deny that PL player base is growing, but not rapidly to the fact that there is ALWAYS a market or new players coming in. Hopefully the android/pc release will fix this but until then, our community only has a few (I'd estimate a couple of hundred) loyal, persistent, and experienced players.

This being said, with how the current game system works, you level cap, and gear up as best as you can, the existing market is decreasing, and fast, very fast. These couple of hundred players, lets say theoretically 200 people, can make one bird, bear, and enchantress. Thats a maximum of 3 sets of gear per person (assuming he only buys one void,cosmos,rift set and passes around). So 600 sets total and the market is 0 and dropping demand significantly, not totally eliminating as demand always exists, but dropping a lot.

Basic supply-demand states that the lower demand is, the lower prices people are willing to pay become. Also the higher the supply, the lower prices become too. Both are currently happening in PL. Demand is falling daily, and supply is growing daily. No wonder prices have been dropping so much.

My suggestion to this, is:

1. Adding a system (my recent upgrading/forging suggestion), that eliminates current supply. Upgrading/forging that will destroy gear if failed, will increase demand since people will need more, hence price increase.

2. The second suggestion is also my 2nd seen problem:

2a. Too little gold income/money supply.

Currently I've been noticing and experiencing my gold draining into pots/elixirs/even gear to be able to cope up with the new Ao3 area. No I am not saying nerf Ao3 to make it easy, but come up with a way to increase gold income.

One reason why demand is slipping a lot is that gold is also a problem. The players available to sell gear to is already slipping, moreover money is a problem. A few friends and I tried different methods of farming gold alone, and it seems that it just isn't enough to farm gold alone (selling nonwhite gear included) to make it worthwhile. Basing from previous posts I've also read that making 100k/hour as a group is the most I've seen. 100k/hour with 5 members is only 20k per hour. 20k is possibly spent on 3-5 Ao3 levels varying on ability of your group.

My suggestion is :

1. Come up with some sort of method that increases the gold earned. Like new "Accessory" or "Jewelry" items that drop from normal mobs only that sell for quite an amount of gold. This encourages both normal finishing of levels, and stimulates demand at the same time.

These are just my major experiences, suggestions and feedbacks, about the game. I realise that this is extremely difficult and lengthy to accomplish but we gotta start somewhere. I also want to make it clear that this is not a demanding thread, but like I said a suggestion and feedback thread.

I feel like I've written a mini-essay for school, so any feedback would be appreciated :P

Cheers guys, been having so much fun. Just hope my point of view would help.

EDIT:

I've realised my participation in a market place (Sagkais Market) can make my post seem biased as to earning more gold ONLY. I understand this is what it may seem like, I apologise. My main purpose is that currently, there is no other form of goal or achievement if not earn as much gold as possible for future use. So yes, the aim is to earn more gold, but not for selfishness or greed, but because I want to excel in the game or achieve as much as I can. If there were pvp points etc, I would probably be busy trying to earn as much of it as I can too.

Thanks to those who pointed it out.

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nva mind lol

I believe Elly's telling you how much they first began to sell and general market price now:).

Very nice suggestions, also.

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Originally Posted by Haikus

I believe Elly's telling you how much they first began to sell and general market price now:).

Very nice suggestions, also.

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oh i understand
forget last post lol

Link to my post with the STS ad for a Director of Monetization

...which include, but not limited to the monetization, revenue generation, and pricing of goods in Pocket Legends...

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...ind-on-the-net.

I fail to see why, other than those who farm "for a living," anyone would be interested in artificially keeping the prices high. This is the free market in pretty much it's purest form. Those who can afford to be early adopters get to pay the premium prices early on (and get bragging rights?), while those who are not as wealthy can wait for the prices to fall. By fixing the system so that the prices stay high, only those who grind at this game for hours at a time can have and/or afford the premium stuff. Casual players will be completely left out.

As for gold "appreciating," uh, how? It's worth the same as it's always been. Pots cost the same as it's been since I started playing. If anything, it depreciates in a sense when the prices are high (think inflation). When an armor for level 50 costs almost an order of magnitude or two more than what it cost you to buy the equivalent at level 45 but the amount of gold you earn per unit playing time is about the same, then I will suggest that your buying power has been tremendously reduced.

Fortunately the system has been self-correcting, and the prices are predictably dropping. So far.

Of course I recognize the possibility that I misconstrued Ellie's point. In which case, carry on. :)

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Originally Posted by Gryndeon

I fail to see why, other than those who farm "for a living," anyone would be interested in artificially keeping the prices high. This is the free market in pretty much it's purest form. Those who can afford to be early adopters get to pay the premium prices early on (and get bragging rights?), while those who are not as wealthy can wait for the prices to fall. By fixing the system so that the prices stay high, only those who grind at this game for hours at a time can have and/or afford the premium stuff. Casual players will be completely left out.

As for gold "appreciating," uh, how? It's worth the same as it's always been. Pots cost the same as it's been since I started playing. If anything, it depreciates in a sense when the prices are high (think inflation). When an armor for level 50 costs almost an order of magnitude more than what it cost you to buy the equivalent at level 45 but the amount of gold you earn per unit playing time is about the same, then I will suggest that your buying power has been tremendously reduced.

Fortunately the system has been self-correcting, and the prices are predictably dropping. So far.

Of course I reserve the possibility that I misconstrued Ellie's point. In which case, carry on. :)

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Hi Gryn! Yes, I understand how it is actually good that prices are kept low, I'm not generally asking to make prices rice again, it makes no sense really. What I'm trying to get across is that even with the current low prices, there is no gold to use anyway. As a farmer, I don't really mind at what price an item sells, because the gold I receive from it would still equate to another item of the same cost. Which leads me to say that somehow gold appreciates overtime. Yeah when a new content map comes out, it somehow depreciates since prices sky rocket, but thats normal, like anything new. But after awhile, that 1mil gold you sold a new item for, becomes the price of an entire set of the same item later on. Which is what I meant by appreciating. :)

I've realised that its somehow misleading the way I lead my post, as seen that I only want to make money as a farmer. Though I've also stated otherwise, there is no other real achievement or goal in the game right now. Gold is really the only thing you'd want to collect and save up (as compared to say Pvp points or a never ending quest).

Thanks for the feedback and perspective :)