Minor change for the Demonic Glyph Charmin Sets for mana and health regen

When comparing the demonic and "regular" glyph sets, the int set is probably the smallest upgrade.

My suggestion is simple - instead of 7H/S and 5M/S, make it 5H/s and 7M/S. The net effect will be for the staff set to have 6 less H/S and 6 more M/S, while the wand set will be 8 less H/S and 8 more M/S.

The reason why I advocate this is for PvP. In PvE, it makes more or less no difference. For PvP though, when you have your mana shield depleted, and the enemy bearing down on you, 25M/S (on the staff set) is simply inadequate. This is a serious weakness on the glyph set. It was for this reason that the enchanted set with just 19 M/S (on a pure int with revive buff and ring) largely failed except against birds that knocked the mana shield early. Mages are unable to cast their spells with 25M/S as quickly as they could.

Furthermore, H/S is fairly useless, much more so than in the sewers. In the sewers, enemies did not hit as hard, so heal and potions were easily usable. In Nuri and PvP, enemies hit too hard for H/S to be useful.



Other thoughts:

Why H/S is less useful on a mage:

Suppose we have 2 targets. Both have 50 H/S. Suppose one is a mage with 0% dodge (in practice they will usually have single digits), and a bear with 50% dodge (bears can get higher than this). The mage has 100 armor and the bear 200.


Now imagine if we have 4 hits of 300 damage per second over a period of 4s.

For mage:

Damage sustained:

Damage per hit:
300 - 100 = 200

Damage taken
200 x 4 = 800

Less damage healed
800 - 50 x 4 = 600


For bear

Damage per hit:
300 - 200 = 100

Damage taken
100 x 4 = 400

Times dodge
400 x (1 - 0.5) = 200

Less damage healed
200 - 50 x 4 = 0

Assuming that it was the first 2 shots that hit, in which case the bear would sustain zero damage. If the 2nd and 3rd shot hit (or 2nd and 4th), the bear would be less 50 hp. If the 3rd and 4th shots hit, the bear would have lost 100 hp.



The reason is because when dodge and armor are taken into account, H/S is very ineffective on a mage.

This is a very good suggestion and very well backed up.
I 100% support this, especially because this suggestion is from a player who can actually PvP good.

With heal, the int set's health regen is even less useful.

Although I understand your argument, personally (being a PVE person), I prefer H/s over M/s. I like every inch of extra survivability, and M/s doesn't help me in that. As you already noted, last crafted INT sets were like that too. And me, toghether with just about all my farming buddies, liked that too. My guess is that more people play PvE as compared to PvP, and I rarely saw anybody complain in PvE about having to much H/s as compared to the unnecessary high M/s.

But yeah, PvP is a different story.

It's not too high H/S. You can never have too high H/S. It's too low M/S that's the problem.

6 H/S should not make a huge difference in PvE. When heal is factored in, it represents roughly a 12% increase in heal, which considering how hard enemies hit in PvE, is not significant. (Well, at least not on a mage anyways, on a bear with high armor, that is a very different story).

But contrast, 6 M/S is a huge difference for PvE as well as PvP. When you mana shield is depleted, you have 2 options. In PvE, you can either keep firing, or hit the pot button. Either way, if you are using a staff and your shield is down, you are probably in trouble and under heavy bombardment. If you keep firing, you can perhaps hit fire blast or ice and retreat. Unfortunately, without enough mana, you can't keep firing and have to hit the pot button. In that time to hit the pot button, you are often dead. Mana regen is useful in both PvP and PvE for that reason; more so than health regen. Had MM and enchanted been equal in terms of damage output, I would have used MM for PvE as well.

Either way, perhaps the most lethal killer of int mages (pure ints anyways) is not are the "death by a thousand cuts", but rather the 1-2 hit kills, or when you pick up an entire mobs aggro and they concentrate fire on you killing you instantly. In both cases, health regen won't save you, even if you had enough health regen to regenerate all your hp in one second.

The only time where the H/S is somewhat useful is in PvP vs birds, who can knock your mana shield down (although even then it can be useful to have mana regen and not health regen as the fight is usually too fast paced; especially vs pure dex bird). Even then, M/S may be useful because if you delay the shield or if you dodge the shot, they will deplete your mana shield.

My mage has 176 armor with wand/bracer, vanity bonus and 4 armor ring, I wouldn't exactly call that low armor. A bigtop set with vanity set and an 8 armor ring has around 192 armor. That's 16 armor difference. The reason why H/s on a bear is more useful is not armor, as you stated, but dodge. Dodge allows a bear to actually make use of those H/s.

But, as said, personally I like every inch of survivability. And although I agree that an extra 8H/s is not a lot for a mage, it gives you just that little bit of extra survivability. The only time (in PvE) where M/s becomes useful, is when you're hit while magic shield is up, but even with 8 more M/s you'll run out of mana quick enough, so spamming of mana pots while under heavy attack won't change IMO. On top of that, Magic shield has a 29sec cool down, making the higher M/s only useful for specific moments in the game. H/s is constant and not depending on 1 skill.

So, personally, I prefer a continuous (marginally) better survivablity, as opposed to something that (marginally) helps me from time to time.

I think giving more mana regen would make mages OP in pvp again.

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Originally Posted by Ixillicus

I think giving more mana regen would make mages OP in pvp again.

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I see no problems here! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ixillicus

I think giving more mana regen would make mages OP in pvp again.

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I don't think so. Right now for int mages:

- Much weaker than before vs bear (previously the fortified had low dodge)
- Dex mages have made some relative gains (higher mana regen on the dex glyph sets)
- Pallies now hit much harder

Although the int set does crit much harder, it isn't enough to offset these. Although on the plus side, int mages are now more potent than before versus dex birds.

@Jaytb:

I can see your argument flying for the wand set where the armor is high. I assume that you are a "wand" person rather than a "staff" person.

But on the staff set, where enemies hit 100+ frequently in the hallows, losing even all of the health regen would not be a big loss. In the sewers, bandit boys did 30 damage a hit, 50+ for the occasional crit. There the damage was low enough that H/S might have made a difference for the enchanted staff set. I would like point out that it was only after the "green" sparkle bonus that the enchanted set saw some adoption due to the inferior mana regen being somewhat boosted by the 8M/S set bonus. But in Nuri, life and death is often decided within 1 second for staff.

orrrrr STS can just make it an option to upgrade your glyph set to a more pvp oriented armor thats like demonic!

that way the PvErs can keep demonic sets and PvPrs can get new sets that are gear more towards PvP!

=]

i agree as heal already comes i to effect. cant heal unless u have mana with the maba shield..

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Originally Posted by XghostzX

i agree as heal already comes i to effect. cant heal unless u have mana with the maba shield..

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Big issue with the staff. Not a big issue with wand since there's one more piece in the set.