My quick balance opinions

So, first off love to cinco for being active in balancing PvP:loyal:

Second off, these are opinions, so obviously you may not agree with them, but no need to freak out.

P.S. I am a 30-40 PvPer, and these opinions are for that range.

My Changes -

Mages need a crit reduction. They should not be two hitting bears, archers, foxes (1 hit), birds, and rhinos in 4 (assuming the rhino combo doesn't kill them). That being said, I would like to keep the level nukey so idk about a damage nerf.

Rhinos should have a slight skill rework. Their combo and tempest should do a bit less damage, but have their stomp skill actually do damage, and taunt possibly apply a strong DoT. This is because I feel like when I see rhino played / play it it's either first 3 skills kill, or they're left there standing around auto attacking until those skills come back.

Bears need a tankiness buff in some form. They are getting nuked by everyone. I mean sure, they can nuke, but they have to be close and by the time that happens they're dead 10x over.

Foxes maybe a slight damage reduction but should, along with birds, get special dodge privileges. Or just a health buff.

Birds need a dodge buff + higher dodge ceiling for them because nobody actually uses the dodge skill as a bird here, it's just 6 focus, break, blast, blind, shatter, then some roots or something.

Constructive criticism is welcomed!

35 isn't balanced at all considering whoever crits more with drain wins. Also, they can one combo 30 mages. Very unbalanced. 35 mage requires no skill to be honest now.

omg mages dont 2 hit learn to pvp then

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Originally Posted by Spullllll

omg mages dont 2 hit learn to pvp then

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lul. Trust me ik how to pvp, and have played level 35 since 2011.

Also I have a mage.

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Originally Posted by Befs

Constructive criticism is welcomed!

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Does this help?








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Would love some actual response from active PvPers.

am active and i dont see a problem

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Originally Posted by Befs

Would love some actual response from active PvPers.

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So your saying my response is bad?

My experience is mostly from 35, 50 and 56.

Foxes and birds dying in two hits to a class thats focus is burst damage is not strange at all. Those two are both suppose to be that way: high damage, low defense. At any rate, the mage buff is somewhat in line with the buff that's most similar to it - bear's rage. In fact, it's now much weaker than rage. Don't personally think mages need to be tuned much. The other classes are what need to be worked on more.

However, there does seem to be something fundamentally wrong with how bear's sturdiness (or lack there of, really) is working right now. Evade feels useless, iron blood by itself isn't good enough to make them tanky, and thus the tank class for PL has been reduced to a 1 shot or be 1 shot class, which just.. seems wrong to me, personally. I think what they need is to have their strengths changed from focusing on their rage-beckon-stomp, to keeping people locked in place and debuffed. Their evade should probably be changed completely into something else. Maybe change it to add hit and armor or something (could make pure strength builds easier to use at most levels). Could get a lot more into that, but I'm still doing my own testing with bears and want to confirm some things first.

I agree with your statements about rhinos feeling awkward. They're suppose to be a dual type that can be used as both support mage and frontline, but since they lack both range and sturdiness, cannot do either effectively. Like bears, it seems like all of their power is focused into one or two abilities, and should be redistributed, probably. I don't play them that often, and rarely see them where I play as well, so I won't say more about it.

Foxes are similar to rhino in the sense that they seem a little awkward still, but fox is a lot better off than rhino in that sense. They work as one would assume an assassin class should work. I think reducing their damage is dangerous. Probably would put them where they were - easy kills with no chance of winning. Right now, they're probably one of the hardest classes to use, but I've seen some satisfying results from them a number of times (I personally am very bad at foxes :P).

Ah, birds. No, they don't need a dodge buff. And no, they don't need more damage. They're the class that gets better and better as you go up in level. We shouldn't make them stronger for lower levels when they actually are quite strong right now in higher levels, as this would result in them being even stronger later. People choosing not to bring evade at 35 is asking to be 1-shot by voodoos. I feel no sympathy. :P However, I personally think that making a class rely fully on RNG for both their damage and defense (only +crit and +dodge for birds) can be frustrating for the users of these classes. I've always been of the mind that I'd rather evade be changed to something that adds +armor and +dodge, in order to make it more reliable, and a similar change for focus.

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Originally Posted by Coolaid90

35 isn't balanced at all considering whoever crits more with drain wins. Also, they can one combo 30 mages. Very unbalanced. 35 mage requires no skill to be honest now.

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Not at all. Do you play 35? Because I do and I can tell you its all about gear,build,combo and range

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Originally Posted by Zapoke

My experience is mostly from 35, 50 and 56.

Foxes and birds dying in two hits to a class thats focus is burst damage is not strange at all. Those two are both suppose to be that way: high damage, low defense. At any rate, the mage buff is somewhat in line with the buff that's most similar to it - bear's rage. In fact, it's now much weaker than rage. Don't personally think mages need to be tuned much. The other classes are what need to be worked on more.

However, there does seem to be something fundamentally wrong with how bear's sturdiness (or lack there of, really) is working right now. Evade feels useless, iron blood by itself isn't good enough to make them tanky, and thus the tank class for PL has been reduced to a 1 shot or be 1 shot class, which just.. seems wrong to me, personally. I think what they need is to have their strengths changed from focusing on their rage-beckon-stomp, to keeping people locked in place and debuffed. Their evade should probably be changed completely into something else. Maybe change it to add hit and armor or something (could make pure strength builds easier to use at most levels). Could get a lot more into that, but I'm still doing my own testing with bears and want to confirm some things first.

I agree with your statements about rhinos feeling awkward. They're suppose to be a dual type that can be used as both support mage and frontline, but since they lack both range and sturdiness, cannot do either effectively. Like bears, it seems like all of their power is focused into one or two abilities, and should be redistributed, probably. I don't play them that often, and rarely see them where I play as well, so I won't say more about it.

Foxes are similar to rhino in the sense that they seem a little awkward still, but fox is a lot better off than rhino in that sense. They work as one would assume an assassin class should work. I think reducing their damage is dangerous. Probably would put them where they were - easy kills with no chance of winning. Right now, they're probably one of the hardest classes to use, but I've seen some satisfying results from them a number of times (I personally am very bad at foxes :P).

Ah, birds. No, they don't need a dodge buff. And no, they don't need more damage. They're the class that gets better and better as you go up in level. We shouldn't make them stronger for lower levels when they actually are quite strong right now in higher levels, as this would result in them being even stronger later. People choosing not to bring evade at 35 is asking to be 1-shot by voodoos. I feel no sympathy. :P However, I personally think that making a class rely fully on RNG for both their damage and defense (only +crit and +dodge for birds) can be frustrating for the users of these classes. I've always been of the mind that I'd rather evade be changed to something that adds +armor and +dodge, in order to make it more reliable, and a similar change for focus.

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Sorry for long quote first off.

You're probably right about the mage part, and bears definitely need a sturdiness buff. Also fox was doing ok for me for a short while, until people realized they could just early ms and nuke me. Also shredder stacks, but a fox will never live long enough to get that 128 armor debuff. Also never living enough to do triple combo is annoying. I think birds should get something at this level. But you bring up a good point about later balance. And a new weapon would be usable for all classes so idk about that.

Thank you for the reply! Was nice to get some feedback.

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Originally Posted by Coolaid90

So your saying my response is bad?

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It just seemed like a complaint, and didn't actually analyze anything.

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Originally Posted by Befs

Would love some actual response from active PvPers.

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Game is great as it is right now. The game is being balanced around the highest level of play, which is at endgame. That is how any game should operate and I am glad that PL is doing that. Trying to balance a game around lower level PvP would be like patching a MOBA based on what the lower tiered players want. I personally love the game as it is and would like to just see small tweaks to strengthen the ability for a str set to tank at endgame. Other than that, we love you Cinco!

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Originally Posted by Congeniality

Game is great as it is right now. The game is being balanced around the highest level of play, which is at endgame. That is how any game should operate and I am glad that PL is doing that. Trying to balance a game around lower level PvP would be like patching a MOBA based on what the lower tiered players want. I personally love the game as it is and would like to just see small tweaks to strengthen the ability for a str set to tank at endgame. Other than that, we love you Cinco!

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But why buff a single set when a change is required at all levels, it just seems like a cop out.

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Originally Posted by Befs

But why buff a single set when a change is required at all levels, it just seems like a cop out.

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My point was that endgame is what the game should be balanced around. I am basically saying that lower levels shouldn't be prioritized. That is just my opinion. Thus, I would like a buff to an endgame set because that is what I think needs to be changed at endgame since that is what I believe the game should be balanced around. Sorry if my first post wasn't clear.

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Originally Posted by Congeniality

My point was that endgame is what the game should be balanced around. I am basically saying that lower levels shouldn't be prioritized. That is just my opinion. Thus, I would like a buff to an endgame set because that is what I think needs to be changed at endgame since that is what I believe the game should be balanced around. Sorry if my first post wasn't clear.

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You post was clear, so allow me to reiterate mine.

There is no point whatsoever in merely buffing a single set for a class. This will make the class inferior while using any other set in the game. For example, if they buff the str set meant for bears, dex and int bears will die off. Additionally, other classes can use the set meant for bears, so if they make it extra strong, we'll just get a load of pallies that will outclass str bears.

On the other hand, if they buff the class, it will fix all levels and play styles of the class.

Birds just need an Xbow with good amounts of damage to be good at 35. Damage on an xbow comparable to iceberg green icewould honestly make them completely viable.

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Originally Posted by Befs

You post was clear, so allow me to reiterate mine.

There is no point whatsoever in merely buffing a single set for a class. This will make the class inferior while using any other set in the game. For example, if they buff the str set meant for bears, dex and int bears will die off. Additionally, other classes can use the set meant for bears, so if they make it extra strong, we'll just get a load of pallies that will outclass str bears.

On the other hand, if they buff the class, it will fix all levels and play styles of the class.

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I guess I just personally don't like int or dex bears, or str or int birds, or str or dex mages. I suppose I just want each class to use the gear they were meant to use.

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Originally Posted by Congeniality

I guess I just personally don't like int or dex bears, or str or int birds, or str or dex mages. I suppose I just want each class to use the gear they were meant to use.

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Bears are still the only class to be unable to go purely in their stat and succeed.

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Originally Posted by Burningdex

Birds just need an Xbow with good amounts of damage to be good at 35. Damage on an xbow comparable to iceberg green icewould honestly make them completely viable.

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Facts.

And not usable by any other classes:loyal: