Rogues vs Mages vs Knights CTF

After playing PVP for awhile I realised that actually theres not really a class that is OP

Mages
Mage are NOT as WEAK as what WE thought.With his shield on and being able to stunlock you(Although its not 100%but it stuns for most of the battle peroid)while kiting and running away from the melees I think can kill them. I personally perfer rogue than others because i love my aimed shot. But after playing more games, i realised its only usefull in 1v1 and IF you can stack it for LOTS AND LOTS OF CRIT or just for kill stealing(my favorite hehe)In some 1v1s, I have seen alot of mages, being lesser able to kill my rouge and more being killed by my rouge*BUT* I have also seen some VERY VERY skilled and WELL EQUIPED players that can just stunlock me and hit me a few times till my stun is over so i can aimed shot just for him to use his shield and kite and stun etc which killed me (doesnt sound as long as it is , its quite fast) So i feel that mages are not that weak after all

To fully utilize a mage
When are mages the most op at you may ask? 2mages vs 1 any class= Just spam your fireball after another and wham stun wham stun=death.1 mage 1 rogue vs1= Spam your mana heal and hide behind your rogue only to heal him and give mana back to him when he needs it and help with stunning= A rogue with unlimited mana that hardly dies in any 2v1 unless they are damn pro or your just too nub or there is just lvl diff.When in teamfights, they can provide good damage and good stun for the team and also heal for heal and mana for the rogues(So they get op @ spamming aimed shot)
Rogues

Moving on to rogues, i feel that they are NOT as op as what people may think because a good mage or a warrior CAN take down a rogue, its just all about skills and if you can dish out your combo FIRST(So you kill them before they die) You can just backstab-gank a rogue that is same lvl as you you can almost easily win unless his too op or ur too weak.They are not very good at teamfights as most of their skills are ment for 1v1(Unless you have a unlimited pool of mana so you can spam aimed shots to kill everyone 1by1 and use your health pack in time to heal yourself ALTHOUGHT you have low armor*So you must not die!But im sure they will aim either you or your mage so you dont have the burst damage because of low mana or you just get out of the fight*)

When rogues are most op,2 rogues vs1=2 aimed shots in 2 seconds=DEATH unless you for some reason is imune or just have 9999999 defence or just that you have support from your team. 1 rogue 1 mage vs 1=Mage+Mana heal regen's rogue's mana so that he can spam his combo over and over= DEATH unless you kill the mage/rogue before he can kill you. 1 rogue 1 knight vs 1= Knight tank for you and give you imunity heal while you do your burst*Only applies if they aim your knight OR if you are using a bow and you are smart to kite them with your knight as a meatshield*

Knights
Knights = best at tanking for people and survivability as they have awesome defence and healing. 5 knights vs 5?= 10 seconds of imunity if casted at correct time WITH the other cooldown down, you get more and more imunity over and over again.

In my opinion, no classes are op unless they are paired up with their best class match to defeat you before you can kill them. Despite me making all these comments, there might be some ways the developers can balance the game by buffing or debuffing some classes to make pvp EVEN better.
Please do not leave any insulting comments:offended:, instead we can talk about why you think different from me as everyone have different opinions. Do feel free to comment about how to improve this :smile:

A smart warrior sure can take out a rogue and also a mage.
I see to many warriors and mages put up the 2s shield first thing when they bump into a rogue.

Save your best cards when the time is right!

The same goes for rogues who when they seen an opponent they suddenly lose focus of mana conservation and start spamming all their skills ASAP.

A rogue without mana is as good as dead!

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Originally Posted by Snalin

A smart warrior sure can take out a rogue and also a mage.
I see to many warriors and mages put up the 2s shield first thing when they bump into a rogue.

Save your best cards when the time is right!

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Originally Posted by Snalin

The same goes for rogues who when they seen an opponent they suddenly lose focus of mana conservation and start spamming all their skills ASAP.

A rogue without mana is as good as dead!

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Ikr! Its all about bringing out your skill combos using some at the right time and trying to stun them to intercept their combos! I have also bumped into many warriors that could kill my rogue! Their 2s imunity are just so helpful.Well spamming skills at first sight for a rogue is ALMOST a must because you are so weak you must kill them before they kill you!When i play a rogue usaully i will spam all my kills and run to either their base or mine to pick up a mana pack! Or just follow a mage and beg for their mana xD

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Originally Posted by Snalin

A smart warrior sure can take out a rogue and also a mage.
I see to many warriors and mages put up the 2s shield first thing when they bump into a rogue.

Save your best cards when the time is right!

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Warrior
Charged hammer, charged Horn of renew, charged hammer, spin ...win

All I know is when I go up against a team with 3 or more warriors, I die lots and rarely get a kill. Yet tonight I played a game in which my team had 2 warriors and the other team was 4 rogues and a sorcerer. I got 36 kills (the most ever for me) and died only about 5 times.

Not to say I can never kill a warrior. With this new trend of warriors doing PvP naked with no armor or helm, I can usually take down those fools. But if they got top gear, there's little chance for me unless I have a teammate with me and it's a 2-on-1. Even then it can be tough if my teammate is another mage or a rogue.

To fix this all, I think they need to give sorcerers back some of our stun capability. We have less armor than a rogue, the same amount of health, and we don't hit nearly as hard as a rogue, we are slower, and we have lower dodge and crit. The only thing we have over a rogue is that our mana lasts longer. So in a long fight we would win over a rogue. Problem is PvP fights in AL are never long unless they are 2 warriors fighting.

I think some of the warriors buffs like their heal need to be toned down as well, and their range with a melee weapon should certainly NOT be as long as the ranged weapons that sorcerers (rifle) and rogues (bow) have.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

All I know is when I go up against a team with 3 or more warriors, I die lots and rarely get a kill. Yet tonight I played a game in which my team had 2 warriors and the other team was 4 rogues and a sorcerer. I got 36 kills (the most ever for me) and died only about 5 times.

Not to say I can never kill a warrior. With this new trend of warriors doing PvP naked with no armor or helm, I can usually take down those fools. But if they got top gear, there's little chance for me unless I have a teammate with me and it's a 2-on-1. Even then it can be tough if my teammate is another mage or a rogue.

To fix this all, I think they need to give sorcerers back some of our stun capability. We have less armor than a rogue, the same amount of health, and we don't hit nearly as hard as a rogue, we are slower, and we have lower dodge and crit. The only thing we have over a rogue is that our mana lasts longer. So in a long fight we would win over a rogue. Problem is PvP fights in AL are never long unless they are 2 warriors fighting.

I think some of the warriors buffs like their heal need to be toned down as well, and their range with a melee weapon should certainly NOT be as long as the ranged weapons that sorcerers (rifle) and rogues (bow) have.

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Actually its not really that hard to kill a warrior as a mage as all you can do is stun lock, once they break free u kite and normal charge to stun again and spam your skills again(they take around 2s cd only lol) and continue, its not really that hard but it may take a longer time, so stick with your friends and try to gangbang the warriors unless they are weak. Also another thing to note is that its not that the warriors want to be naked, but its a glitch making them going "naked" but not them removing their cloths,if im not wrong they still have the equipment's stats.So never get tricked by a naked warrior! Sometimes you may not be able to take down a warrior is because 1. They have way better gears than you or 2. They are higher lvl then you(even one makes a diff! im a rogue i fought lvl 21 mage and got owned) 3. You may be abit laggy 4. Your skill build or combos are not good enough 5. Just takes forever that you choose to run away(too tanky) So what i recommend is try to improve your armor(maybe after the new lvl cap rises) or ask around for mage builds/combos do unleash your skills or just ask for someone to follow you and own everyone in your way(like a rogue!)

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Originally Posted by Crabmeat

Warrior
Charged hammer, charged Horn of renew, charged hammer, spin ...win

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Its a good combo but it may not apply to everyone as there SURE got to be better players than you (in terms of lvl,items,skills,combos etc etc) so maybe the people you are meeting are not so good at pvp(no offence:peaceful:)
Good luck in pvp :)

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Originally Posted by Snalin

A smart warrior sure can take out a rogue and also a mage.
I see to many warriors and mages put up the 2s shield first thing when they bump into a rogue.

Save your best cards when the time is right!

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For the millionth time, the 2 sec invulnerability on Horn of Renew does not work in PvP...

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Originally Posted by Chaoss

Actually its not really that hard to kill a warrior as a mage as all you can do is stun lock, once they break free u kite and normal charge to stun again and spam your skills again(they take around 2s cd only lol) and continue, its not really that hard but it may take a longer time, so stick with your friends and try to gangbang the warriors unless they are weak. Also another thing to note is that its not that the warriors want to be naked, but its a glitch making them going "naked" but not them removing their cloths,if im not wrong they still have the equipment's stats.So never get tricked by a naked warrior! Sometimes you may not be able to take down a warrior is because 1. They have way better gears than you or 2. They are higher lvl then you(even one makes a diff! im a rogue i fought lvl 21 mage and got owned) 3. You may be abit laggy 4. Your skill build or combos are not good enough 5. Just takes forever that you choose to run away(too tanky) So what i recommend is try to improve your armor(maybe after the new lvl cap rises) or ask around for mage builds/combos do unleash your skills or just ask for someone to follow you and own everyone in your way(like a rogue!)

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Two things I've yet to witness as a sorcerer:

1) stun lock. I keep seeing folks refer to this, but never have actually been able to do it, not even once. I have fireball, lightning and frost, and I use the watch rifle. I've tried all 4 both charged and uncharged, and the only one that ever produces a stun for me has been charged fireball which seems to do it about 90% of the time. The charged attack from the gun just doesn't do it -- maybe one in 20 times, but not often enough to make it worthwhile to charge the skill. Lightning never stuns, and neither does frost.

2) "kite the warrior" - how exactly is this done? The warrior has a range that is further than the largest room. Even in the large spawn room, if the warrior stands in the middle, there is no place in the room that he cannot land a hit on me. If you mean by "kite" that I should just run, then yes I do try, but the warrior always catches up as he can run faster than I can. Once the warrior lands a hit on me, he can "stun lock" me every single time. One hit from the warrior and I become stunned, and then there's nothing more I can do until I am dead. None of my skills work anymore at that point, and he only needs to hit me 1 or 2 more times and I die.

As to your suggestion that after he breaks free I should stun him again, after he breaks free I become stunned and stay that way until I die. I haven't yet figured out a way to avoid this.

In answer to your other questions, I'm lvl21 with all top gear -- watch rifle and demonlord armor. I'm full INT with some STR from the gear. 500+ armor, 1800+ health, and my skills are fireball, lightning, frost and heal.

I refuse to replace one of my skills with shield as it is totally useless in PvE. If STS is going to make this game so that I must choose to be successful in either PvE or PvP, then I guess I will choose to not participate in PvP anymore. But I'm hoping they will make some adjustments to PvP. They did say at the beginning that this was in beta and they would make balancing adjustments, but I've not seen them make any changes yet. So I guess it takes a few months.



Again I invite you to look at the leaderboards for both kills and flags and tell me which end-game lvl21 sorcerers are on either list. The answer is none. There is a reason for this. It's not just a big coincidence. As PvP achievements are needed for the "Top Player" leaderboard, I think over the next month you will see all of the sorcerers fall off of the top 25 list for that too.

Mages are squishy

with the upcoming patch rogues should have close to 40% dodge which makes them the ultimate pve tank

That's what i'm really worried about lol. The way the game mechanics are designed warriors will gain more health but that's it, mages will get nothing in terms of defensive upgrade (especially if shield stays at 500 damage absorbed LOL) while rogues will have massive dodge. I'm not counting armor as damage reduction should remain the same as lvls go up.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

Two things I've yet to witness as a sorcerer:

1) stun lock. I keep seeing folks refer to this, but never have actually been able to do it, not even once. I have fireball, lightning and frost, and I use the watch rifle. I've tried all 4 both charged and uncharged, and the only one that ever produces a stun for me has been charged fireball which seems to do it about 90% of the time. The charged attack from the gun just doesn't do it -- maybe one in 20 times, but not often enough to make it worthwhile to charge the skill. Lightning never stuns, and neither does frost.

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Agreed. This stunlock thing people keep talking about is a myth. You might be able to do it several times with luck, but for the most part it's not a consistent thing. Plus, if the opponent is stunned, a stun proc from lightning/charged attack/gust will not add onto the time of the stun, so you have to time if perfectly. You probably won't get your skill off b4 a warrior spam tapping his skyward smash.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

Not to say I can never kill a warrior. With this new trend of warriors doing PvP naked with no armor or helm,

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There is a bug that has been going around (fixed) that makes any warrior wearing Winter gear go naked. Could it be this?

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Originally Posted by Destructible

There is a bug that has been going around (fixed) that makes any warrior wearing Winter gear go naked. Could it be this?

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I suppose it's possible. All I know is when I see them naked they usually die much easier. Maybe it's because they just have lousy gear (I don't think Winter gear is very good).

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

Two things I've yet to witness as a sorcerer:
I refuse to replace one of my skills with shield as it is totally useless in PvE. If STS is going to make this game so that I must choose to be successful in either PvE or PvP, then I guess I will choose to not participate in PvP anymore. But I'm hoping they will make some adjustments to PvP. They did say at the beginning that this was in beta and they would make balancing adjustments, but I've not seen them make any changes yet. So I guess it takes a few months.

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In the next expansion, we'll be able to choose/sacrifice 5 skill points for a 5th skill which we can then switch (map skills) between PVE and PVP/CTF. It's just a matter of how much you want to sacrifice...

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Again I invite you to look at the leaderboards for both kills and flags and tell me which end-game lvl21 sorcerers are on either list. The answer is none. There is a reason for this. It's not just a big coincidence. As PvP achievements are needed for the "Top Player" leaderboard, I think over the next month you will see all of the sorcerers fall off of the top 25 list for that too.

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I hope this is a lesson learned by STS -- they could've hidden the stats for them to analyse and balance the game during the 'TEST' period.

Although I think it's pretty well balanced now, I still think that it's unfair for both warrior and rogue to have a skill that leaps making escape extremely difficult for the squishy sorcerer....Oh well.

I'm not sure what you mean with the above? We still have 4 skill slots but 1 skill will appear on the bar for PvP if we choose to do that?

If so, that's extremely lame. PL has 8 skill slots, why not make the game a little more interesting and add a skill slot?