I think the feedback is good. To use forum vernacular, I don't want to make teams utterly useless. Any clarity for me in this venue?Quote:
Originally Posted by XghostzX
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I think the feedback is good. To use forum vernacular, I don't want to make teams utterly useless. Any clarity for me in this venue?Quote:
Originally Posted by XghostzX
In team play, this is very wrong. I admit, there are times when I'm stuck in the bow's proc and I feel completely useless, but the archers are supposed to be a high damage-dealing, yet vulnerable class – which I believe they are at the moment. This is both fundamental and paramount to their gameplay style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensmage
Mana shield is actually not useless. Again, in team-play combat, mana shield should be an emergency maneuver. It should grant you a couple extra seconds of protection, but nothing else – I use it when I need to get out of tough situations to be saved by teammates. Otherwise, you are literally asking for mages to be the tankiest class ever.
It's easy to play this game of moving back and forth like a pendulum with balancing stats, so I suggest we avoid that. Players are still fixated in a 1v1 type of environment, and we need to deviate from that to see that the game is more balanced than people think.
Im cool if we cant heal out of the slowness but not allowing us to heal while in the proc would be helpful. Ive also noticed that i gain no mana and the proc stops my auto attack. With no mana shield up in the proc, why am i not allowed to gain mana back so i can prevent myself from dying?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinco
Editing what i meant to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mine AGK
I believe removing the heal effect will not render team play useless. I just think the intensity of the bow proc needs to be reduced to compensate for this – perhaps decrease the amount of time players are slowed down in the bows proc? After all, the strategy of the bird has always been maintaining one's distance and then exploiting that small window of time to nuke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinco
EDIT: Others have suggested (as AGK above) that mages have the ability to either heal out of the slow effect but not the debuff, or vice versa – which I think some balance there needs to be achieved.
Regarding team pvp, I also think the bow set (and other 2h's) should have more of an increase in skill damage, considering that the talon still has way more skill damage than it. The talon set is fairly tanky in team play compared to the bow set, so the bow should have a greater increase in skill damage to offset the effect of dying everytime a bear lands its beckon. A good example of this would be in Rockwall Forts. Considering how small the map is, the talon is the way to go since it can poke using skills and do more damage (due to higher skill damage) whilst being able to stay tanky. The point of the bow (and all other 2h's) should be how it's traditionally been- sacrificing survivability for nuking capabilities. With that said, all 2h weapons should have more skill damage than their 1h counterparts.Quote:
Originally Posted by XghostzX
The debate between tuning the classes looks like it will take a lot of updates. I think removing procs is much harder to adjust PVP than updating stats for the classes. Having the procs like speed made the game interesting and fun.
Not sure if tuning the stats should have gone first and then deciding to remove some procs or modifying it would have been better. Maybe tuning stat was done first and then modifying proc. Its difficult to spend time to stay tune with all the updates. Good Luck...
Tweaking the procs isn't necessarily hard, it's just a very new concept at the moment. Procs have never played that big of a role, so there is a learning curve. But I think with some tuning, it will turn out to be pretty damn awesome. I think once the procs are settled, then we can turn to stat adjustments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensmage
The speed proc definitely should not be part of PvP.
Tweaking proc as in adjust dmg, range, and time is easy. Removing speed and adding heal to escape makes the tuning difficult to balance pvp.
I still say procs at the beginning were great as is. Stats were probably required tuning.
I’m sure STS did some testing before the update. It seems to them that it was balanced. The game might have been balanced before players started to enchant their weapons .
When players like us pvp with enchants that varies a lot, we are comparing Apple vs orange and not apple vs Apple.
Speed proc from mage wand should not be part of PvP.
The bow proc is kinda useless now in 5v5, the mage can just heal anyone out of it including themselves. I don't think that mages should be able to heal themselves or anyone else out of the bow proc. I would say that increasing the skill damage of bow + not being able to heal out of procs should make bow actually useful in team play so if someone gets caught in the small proc, they can be nuked instead of ducking out to be saved by team members. It just makes sense that 2h weapons have more skill damage than 1h weapons.
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Makes sense on what you say. The problem is a mage is weak when bow proc hits a mage. It’s like gg mage. Reduce the bow proc time and remove heal escape?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenton
Hear me out here but I think if every classes debuffs scaled to the amount of stats you have it would be almost 100% balanced. Just think about it.
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Mage is dumb OP atm best class its very hard to kill. The bow proc pool is too small now might need to add an extra 10-15% to it
I think birds are fine now. They don't need another buff for the time being.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3pc
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinco
It sounds like I'm taking about 1v1 but I always keep team play ffa in my mind. I personally don't enjoy 1v1 at all and that's for years now but -
Balancing classes is the ONE & ONLY gateway to balanced teamplay, not just overwhelming it's just simply not possible to balance teamplay ffa effectively without balancing classes and if we balance classes the way it should be then by default team play ffa (I'll simply call it ffa) will get balanced, I'm not talking about perfect class balance cause that's not possible. Ppl talked about ffa game, and not to focus on 1v1 etc but they got over some simple facts-
- If classes ain't balanced individually, ppl tends to play with OP class. The result, ffa is screwed because there always gonna be mostly op classes in the both teams, that just kept happening always, when pallies were op, it's mostly pallies vs pallies in both ctf and arena. This can't be stopped other than when occasionally guild like restoration host locked games and agree to use different classes. So the basic purpose itself is ruined.
- Less activity in the arena, because some ppl tends to leave pvp if their favorite class is under powered.
- We can't deny the fact that, it's mostly 1v1 goes in the arena, that's the base of PvP now & if that doesn't go well, we won't get much chance to conduct ffa sessions, that's fact.
Dolloway talked about mages gonna be important for winning a match in a ffa, when in the history of PL (in fair situations) mage wasn't the decisive factor of wining if opponent team doens't have a mage? NEVER in the fair situations. THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM, in a proper ffa, there should be all class and their role play, bear gonna play his role of tanking and crowd control, mage playing the role of healing /reving doing some aoe damage, and birds dealing damage and ks-es, IF ANY CLASS is not present there, they have a significant dis advantage if opponent team has that, this is the best ffa possible. THE PROBLEM ARISES when, a class become under powered (again I have to talk about class balance) then ppl gonna say, we don't need a weak bear in our team, we don't need a weak bird in our team. The past is full of such examples.
Whatever strengthen 1v1, also strengthen ffa. Whatever ruins 1v1 also ruin ffa. Again we need to understand that perfect balance is not possible, that also shouldn't imply that a class should have pretty narrow to no chance of killing other classes.
Again, Pure classes are best meant for a ffa, so when I talked about pure mage being better than bow mage, that favors ffa. If bow mages doesn't do well against int mage, we won't see much bow mage in a ffa.
So at this point int mages can either 1)run away from their pool proc making it utterly useless. 2) Try to stay in their pool proc and hope that heals away all the incoming damage.
As fun as teamplay is, not balancing 1v1 as well causes people to exploit weaknesses and just boost kills off others ruining the game for them. That's exactly why so many people for so many years don't pvp at all, or have left in the past due to extreme unbalanced classes.
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Hi Cinco. I dont think this is a good suggestion.. On some low lvl pvp , the pvpers tend to have 1v1 instead of team fight (FFA) . Its because of the knockback stomp distance on bears.
It will cause the team scattered and gives an advantage to enemies to kill them 1by1. So if want to have FFA u shouldve a bear that is good on stomping. I suggest that u should nerf the stomp knockback distance . It would be good when we can put some strategies and have a competitive and a thril fight. And thx also for the good updates... keep up the good work. ! Were Just LOCO :)
If you’re focusing on team play, wouldn’t it be better if mages only healed themselves out of a proc so they’re a little more balanced?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinco
Really not sure why stun/snaring from procs can't be removed like every other stun/snare skills... all classes have a way to remove debuffs. Making it impossible to kite by making the bow proc exempt from heal is pretty silly... it's essentially giving birds a 13m root skill that cannot be removed.
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As previously mentioned, I think a potential solution to the problem would be:Quote:
Originally Posted by Buchmeister
Allow mages to EITHER heal the slow effect OR the debuff, but not both. If players are concerned by the OPness of the bird's proc, I think this would be the best way to compensate.