PvE is broken, alright. Nowadays a person cannot run a map at endgame without using an elixir. And if they attempt to do so, they get booted promptly because it slows down their runs. Simply put, the mobs are too hard, and there needs to be an increase in health, rather than dodge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingzila
This... Is the most brilliant thing I've read on these forums in a LONG time. Very amazing job, I hope the devs take this serious and implement it in, Thank you very much for doing this ^_^
I agree. Oh snap, it's broken! What do we do? Oh hey, check it out! There's a whole thread about how to fix it! How convenient is that? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingzila
I agree with the most part but int mage DMG is already sky high Drain and fire I meant. int mages do more DMG (with shield and 1 h weapon) than the highest damaging (meant to be at least) class bird with 2h bow (I.e with no sheild).
what we need - skill damage distribution among other skills similarly bears are about beacon stomp. skill DMG should be distributed in other skills so there would be less 2hit kills. players have to go through his/her most of the skills tactically to kill opponent.
biggest mistake made by devs- Percentage based stats should have been treated separately e.g hit%, dodge, crit. these stats either started to got saturated or either got saturated if I had to explain it then I needed to write 1page article, I'm not gonna do that.
also) Debuffs skills should not get dodged even though the DMG may get dodged for ex if someone dodge brk armor he only dodged the DMG but did not dodge the break armor proc it happens but there are many other debuffs that get dodged with its procs also.
other than that as op always mention 2h gear and 1h gears are not balanced and 2h gear always have advantage over 1h weapon gear in general.
Two issues though:Quote:
Originally Posted by legendfb
In PvP, that damage is not very effective. It is not very useful because your target has really high dodge. Hence the scenario above. Target has 80% dodge. That means that to get drain life to hit, it will be dodged 80% of the time.
In PvE, the damage is still not very effective. It is not very useful because well, PvE is very elixir centric. Furthermore, without an elixir you will be picking up a ton of aggro. This compounds the issue for staff mages because they only get 9% more damage for 25% less survivability. At least with my suggestions, you'd get 25% more firepower for 25% less survivability. A fair tradeoff, and one useful provided you have a good tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legendfb
I'm forced to disagree here too. With the current situation, 2 hit kills are not the issue at all. High dodge is the issue. Str vs str fights go on and on.
Judging by your responses, I suspect that you are very much focused on either end game with elixir PvE or a twinking, as int mages currently while they do a lot of damage, their damage tends to get dodged a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legendfb
I agree with these points here though and that's what I plan to talk about.
Another idea for dodge would be this:
Lets say you have 80% dodge
And your opponent has 200% hit
So 20% of attacks to you would hit, but let's multiply the 20% by 200% so 40% hit
60% dodge 150% hit would be 60% hit
50% dodge 140% hit would be 70% hit
40% dodge 130% hit would be 78% hit
70% dodge 200% hit would be 60% hit
Etc....
Sorry if it's hard to understand it's hard for me to explain it
It's an interesting idea. I must disagree with it though:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzther
It would make dex birds very, very powerful against str based toons. Their accuracy would be greatly improved versus str based enemies.
At the same time, the idea would not address the other issue, lengthy str vs str battles. Finally, it would not address the other issue, int being not very effective right now.
To everyone:
I do realize that everyone has ideas on what to do. I actually encourage everyone to post them. I may not always agree with all of the ideas, but at least people are thinking.
Dam thats some hardcore gamer evaluation right there.
I have completed my thoughts on skill reforms that I propose.
It should be scalable, and it will mean that everyone will have a different build.
Ok, long term plans, will slowly finish this over the next couple of days. About halfway there.
Edit:
Question though - is a system that makes elixirs-free running not viable at all that great? Nothing appears "broken" when everyone is burning elixirs and is booting those that do not. While I agree that this does seem to be generating some sales, I feel that in the long run, a system that is both viable with and without elixirs will generate more players (and thus more sales) in the long run. I think that one of the reasons why PL's playerbase dropped in number was because of the environment that they faced (that and the lack of new content). "Fixing" PvE would go a long way to attracting and maybe retaining a highly competent (and profitable for STS) playerbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingzila
I think you're bit focused on an int mageagainst bear only, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsThis
Extra dodge should be neerfed OR dodge debuffs should land without getting dodged. opponent has high dodge that does not mean someone should have so much damage that can very few hit kills if not dodge, the balance can't be like that way. again there is 2 hit kills.
and the point I mentioned i.e ALREADY MAGES (endgame focused) HAVE HUGE DMG IN DRAIN, FIRE that should be distributed on other skills.
why this is necessary? because even if mages chose to be less damaging, going str, THEY CAN NUKE. So what do you think, a str mage should be able to nuke kill? so what's the point playing as fragile class/build to play with unless you're playing against similar classes/build.
hmmm, as how i see it: bears need seriously less damage, or let's better say, nerf the scyth damage. for int mage, a bit more health, and less hit/dmg on fiery set with an increase of armour (eventually till its equal when u compare the goddess and sand walker sets), and yeah birds just got way too low dodge.. or maybe increase dodge in dex sets?
these would be my suggestions, note that this is based on endgame.. anyway i think this could make things way more balanced,
and about foxes and rhino's, i can't say much about it because i barely use them. #myopinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by legendfb
Are you talking about endgame PvP or PvE?
I already answered that in my prior argument, which you have either ignored or do not understand the implications of. Damage is not a huge advantage when you're target dodges 80% of it.
Let's say you engage the enemy. They have 80% dodge. Now you cast any 2 moves (ex: drain + fire). I don't know how much advanced you knowledge is in statistics and probabilities, but here:
Your drain has an 80% chance of being dodged.
Your fire has an 80% chance of being dodged.
There is a 64% chance of both moves being dodged.
There is a 32% chance that only 1 move will hit, in which case unless the shot is a 1 hit KO, the target has very high H/S keeping them alive
There is only a 4% chance that both moves hit
Compounding the issue significantly, mages have a very high variance in their moves (which I will address later). Notice this:
Demonic Glyph Wand Min Max Average
Ice Storm 186 285 235.5
Frostbite 276 337 306.5
Fire Blast 313 439 376
Lightning 296 443 369.5
Drain Life 343 502 422.5
Main Weapon 206 251 228.5
Do a statistical analysis on those numbers. The implication? If the 32% chance occurs, even with a massive average damage, the target will not odds are die, because mages have a huge standard deviation on the damage output of their moves.
Compare this to dex:
Blast shot 414 - 435
Avian Scream 293 - 338
Repulse 341 - 361
Blinding Shot 319 - 383
Main Weapon 261 - 273
Note that the standard deviation of the bird abilities damage is lower.
For the sake of argument, so what would happen in your combat scenario? Pure int vs str bear? Well when RNG favors the mage, let's say 12% of the time, they kill the target. But 88% of the time, the mage is dead meat. Their abilities miss, no matter how much damage they do, and without good defenses of their own, they die (low dodge + armor).
When you're target has very high dodge (and all str toons do), they will dodge most of your attacks and their h/s will keep the few that do hit healed. This is a issue for all str toons btw. Warbird, rhino, and str mage too (a bit lower dodge, but remember that they have a good heal), the same logic applies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legendfb
You appear to have seriously misunderstood my arguments. Int mages and dex mages can are dps-oriented. Str mages will have lower damage because they are in tank gear and have about half their points in str. They are tanks. Re-read everything I have written.
1. I advocated for more dps for staff int. Wand/bracer int is fine.
2. I advocated for a nerf to dodge.
Str mages will remain largely unchanged, save for the dodge nerfs and the changes to skill mechanics. They can "nuke" yes, but the damage output is not going to be as high as dps-oriented mages.
Judging by your quotes, I do not think you understand how skill damage works. I will address this later. In the mean time, I recommend you look for posts back in 2011 - Physiologic's guides and Royce's posts on the matter will greatly benefit you. Until then, I would like you to explain to me how skill damage works - in other words, say when you cast "fire blast" - what causes fire blast to have say 300-400 damage? What causes it? Versus 200-300? If you understand the why, you'll understand that potent str mages is a non-issue.
Str mage is not a dps-oriented build. Pure int mage and int/dex mages are dps-oriented builds. Str mages are tanking-oriented classes in PvE and flag capture classes in PvP.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendfb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelife
It's not a bad idea. It might even be implemented.
I'll keep it in the maybe category. The reason is, well, my recommendations will nerf the greatest thing all str toons have. Their dodge.
I get the impression that most of the responses here are very PvE oriented. Without their dodge, tanking becomes harder and they lose a huge advantage over dex/int toons.
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[QUOTE=WhoIsThis;1326418]
I'll keep it in the maybe category. The reason is, well, my recommendations will nerf the greatest thing all str toons have. Their dodge.
haha yeah actually, i think ur right, dodge nerf for Str will be the solution :)
Where you say debuffs and beckon should always hit, do you mean that they cannot be dodged and missed? I agree on the undodgeable part, but I think they should still be able to miss, or else other hit reducing debuffs wouldn't be as useful, and things like hs timing (which is especially important in lower level pvp) wouldn't be as important. I was also a little confused if you meant beckon should always land only for PVE, and in that case I would agree. Other than that everything is fantastic.
To expand on this a little, what if the effects remain, but the damage can be dodged? For example, roots still root in place and debuff x amount of dodge, but they do not do any damage. Another example would be beckon and stomping without dealing any damage. Does that make sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroelite
I just feel that this would make a tank bear with high str and low dex become over powered as they can just continue to tank and debuff without having to worry about missed hits, because they can just keep taking reduced damage hits from debuffs while their damage eventually lands. I feel like dex bears who use high hit as a tool (like a full dex bear) would become obsolete.Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMicah
WhoIsThis is a true Legend.
These are the pics I am referring to in my pm:
Attachment 45839
Attachment 45840
Attachment 45841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroelite
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMicah
From post:
For example, if a bird has blinding shot, only the debuff effect is a 100% chance to hit. If that bird shot at a target with say, 80% dodge, the damage from blinding shot would have an 80% chance to miss, but the debuff effects will ALWAYS hit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroelite
With their dodge gone, remember, bears will be a lot easier to kill. This will ensure that they still have an advantage.
@Faliziaga
Debuffs are indeed stacking. This is already present in the game. I believe heals should cure them though, which reminds me - mage heal should cure all effects (that needs to be changed too - blinding shot is not cured right now). I believe Guardian should too for pallies heal every condition.