Talon Proc Nerf

To begin with, this new talon proc is a bit too much and is an indirect nerf to the bird class. Rhino's could kill an elite talon bird easily with the str axe set pre proc nerf, but now the scales have been unbalanced since nearly every class (sorry foxes) can kill a talon bird now. 15 seconds is outrageously long for the talon cooldown considering the fact that birds were ALREADY squishy with the proc down, and now this additional 15 second cooldown makes a bird useless and I'll explain why. First, the talon proc (pre proc) was what kept birds toe-to-toe with classes that were tanky or had high heals because it made them be able to withstand damage while compensating for the talon sets low damage being done. Now a mage with a non enchanted elite int set can stay full hp as i (fully enchanted bird with elite talon set) go in for a nuke while still being able to nuke me down in 1 combo. I could understand a nerf allowing for the talon to only proc in combat, but with this cooldown in place a bird would have to run for 15 seconds to get their proc back up to have a chance at killing another class. Either increase the talon's damage to be more competitive against tankier or healing classes, remove or reduce the cooldown restriction set on talon, or nerf the other set procs. Many will begin to complain about Rhino or mage with axe set being too tanky, or int mages with the elite int wand set doing too much damage on top of how much they heal.

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Originally Posted by SuperGotenks

To begin with, this new talon proc is a bit too much and is an indirect nerf to the bird class. Rhino's could kill an elite talon bird easily with the str axe set pre proc nerf, but now the scales have been unbalanced since nearly every class (sorry foxes) can kill a talon bird now. 15 seconds is outrageously long for the talon cooldown considering the fact that birds were ALREADY squishy with the proc down, and now this additional 15 second cooldown makes a bird useless and I'll explain why. First, the talon proc (pre proc) was what kept birds toe-to-toe with classes that were tanky or had high heals because it made them be able to withstand damage while compensating for the talon sets low damage being done. Now a mage with a non enchanted elite int set can stay full hp as i (fully enchanted bird with elite talon set) go in for a nuke while still being able to nuke me down in 1 combo. I could understand a nerf allowing for the talon to only proc in combat, but with this cooldown in place a bird would have to run for 15 seconds to get their proc back up to have a chance at killing another class. Either increase the talon's damage to be more competitive against tankier or healing classes, remove or reduce the cooldown restriction set on talon, or nerf the other set procs. Many will begin to complain about Rhino or mage with axe set being too tanky, or int mages with the elite int wand set doing too much damage on top of how much they heal.

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Bird has a high heal too... and they are not squishy. They have like 100% dodge. Stop playing like a bear lol

It's time for people to understand nerfing or buffing an item anyone can use doesn't nerf any particular class... when all classes are choosing to use talon sets because it was so far superior to others, it needed nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

Bird has a high heal too... and they are not squishy. They have like 100% dodge. Stop playing like a bear lol

It's time for people to understand nerfing or buffing an item anyone can use doesn't nerf any particular class... when all classes are choosing to use talon sets because it was so far superior to others, it needed nerfed.

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I'm assuming you're not fully geared with a fully enchanted 6-piece elite set. Yes this does nerf bird class because it changes their playstyle. Birds have a 16.25 second heal cooldown compared mage & rhino's low heal cooldown, and in order to compete with their high heals that talon proc is put into place. Putting a high cooldown on the talon will have birds resorting to straight up running for 15 seconds instead of kiting, and I don't believe thats how their playstyle should be. With that said, only allowing the talon to proc in combat but removing the cooldown will allow for birds to kite. And I wouldn't comment on any L105 pvp feedback if I wasn't fully geared, as you should the same. The mages elite wand proc gives them a 500 mana/second + 500 health/second + bonus movespeed pool that is more likely to proc since wand has 0.6 speed, so yes, this can make them be able tank hard nukes to the face. Rhino is tanky with low heal second cooldown. There's a lot of misinformation being spread on the forums about "talon proc op pls nerf1!!1" yet these are the same people who aren't geared. I was the third person in the game to obtain an elite 6 piece dex set, and the majority of people I fought were undergeared, so of course it makes sense that they would complain about a proc being op while not being exposed to the other sets. More people have been getting elite sets due to the recent amulet event, so people's perspectives will change about what's op and what not.

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Originally Posted by SuperGotenks

I'm assuming you're not fully geared with a fully enchanted 6-piece elite set. Yes this does nerf bird class because it changes their playstyle. Birds have a 16.25 second heal cooldown compared mage & rhino's low heal cooldown. Bears have high tankiness due to high armor and damage. And I wouldn't comment on any L105 pvp feedback if I wasn't fully geared, as you should the same. The mages elite wand proc gives them a 500 mana/second + 500 health/second + bonus movespeed pool that is more likely to proc since wand has 0.6 speed, so yes, this can make them be able tank hard nukes to the face. Rhino is tanky with low heal second cooldown. There's a lot of misinformation being spread on the forums about "talon proc op pls nerf1!!1" yet these are the same people who aren't geared. I was the third person in the game to obtain an elite 6 piece dex set, and the majority of people I fought were undergeared, so of course it makes sense that they would complain about a proc being op while not being exposed to the other sets. More people have been getting elite sets due to the recent amulet event, so people's perspectives will change about what's op and what not.

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Gz on having a set. But i don't need 1 to have common sense. If a mage can have the same proc that got nerfed, it was all classes, not just bird. Maybe you didn't play as a bird should to start with and just need to adapt, from what your saying your approach to pvp was similar to the way a bear should play. Birds are a damage class, not a tank class. It's supposed to be squishy.

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

Gz on having a set. But i don't need 1 to have common sense. If a mage can have the same proc that got nerfed, it was all classes, not just bird. Maybe you didn't play as a bird should to start with and just need to adapt, from what your saying your approach to pvp was similar to the way a bear should play. Birds are a damage class, not a tank class. It's supposed to be squishy.

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I don't think you should be commenting on my skill since I've beaten you multiple times in pvp. The point is, birds don't do enough damage to nuke through mages heal and rhino tank/heal. The talon nerf put things way out of balance.

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Originally Posted by SuperGotenks

I don't think you should be commenting on my skill since I've beaten you multiple times in pvp. The point is, birds don't do enough damage to nuke through mages heal and rhino tank/heal. The talon nerf put things way out of balance.

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An item is an item, a class is a class....
If the classes can use the exact same weapon with the exact same proc, the item proc/damage/looks are all irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

An item is an item, a class is a class....
If the classes can use the exact same weapon with the exact same proc, the item proc/damage/looks are all irrelevant.

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thats like saying 61 mage isnt op because other classes can use lilith :<

No it's really not... mage has a combo from the proc with lilith set and other classes do not...

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Originally Posted by Burningdex

thats like saying 61 mage isnt op because other classes can use lilith :<

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

No it's really not... mage has a combo from the proc with lilith set and other classes do not...

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hellscream

11

What about bird, fox, and rhino?

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Originally Posted by Burningdex

hellscream

11

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

What about bird, fox, and rhino?

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Clearly you've never played anything but endgame.. When have you seen an int bird, int rhino, or int fox viable at most pvp caps? And once again, I don't think you should comment on any feedback because what you're doing is creating false information for the devs to interpret. You obviously lack any understanding of the current cap's pvp balance since I've done multiple 1v1s, 2v2s, and 3v3s against all elite geared teams using varying class setups (something you haven't had the chance to because you don't have a set). And clearly you and I have different definitions of common sense; nerfing the dex set would directly hurt the bird class the most because that's the only viable set a bird can use. I'm speaking for the birds who'd actually like to play with the set they were originally intended to use instead of having to resort to using other sets.

Dude i was being sarcastic genius... I've played 15, 56,61,66,71, and endgame since 76 cap. My point was they used a horrible example because lilith mage is op, but it's a completely different proc type. Talon adds 1k armor, that in amd of itself is over a 50% armor buff that every other set doesn't have.

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Originally Posted by SuperGotenks

Clearly you've never played anything but endgame.. When have you seen an int bird, int rhino, or int fox viable at most pvp caps? And once again, I don't think you should comment on any feedback because what you're doing is creating false information for the devs to interpret. You obviously lack any understanding of the current cap's pvp balance since I've done multiple 1v1s, 2v2s, and 3v3s against all elite geared teams using varying class setups (something you haven't had the chance to because you don't have a set). And clearly you and I have different definitions of common sense; nerfing the dex set would directly hurt the bird class the most because that's the only viable set a bird can use. I'm speaking for the birds who'd actually like to play with the set they were originally intended to use instead of having to resort to using other sets.

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

horrible example

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analogy.

ill stop derailing now, sorry lawl

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Originally Posted by Burningdex

analogy.

ill stop derailing now, sorry lawl

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I fail to see how the word example doesn't work... perhaps you should stop raging and think before telling people they don't know what they are saying... finding a synonym for a word i use doesn't make anything i say less correct https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d7d4a25fc6.jpg

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Is the talon auto range 12m? If not, then the cooldown nerf in theory shouldn't affect the class that heavily. This is because the archer class is designed to work from the 10-12m range primarily, with fallback mechanics to help it re-establish that distance. Thus, I feel that the talon proc nerf, if the talon has always been under 12m auto range, is justified in order to secure the identity of the class.

Hope this helps!

Walie :)

That's a really good point from a class point of view.

All I've been trying to get through to people is... If 90% of people are using the talon, it's obvious that the talon was far superior to the other weapons. And that I don't need a set to see what everyone is wearing and use a little common sense. Therefore a nerf is/was justified. Another 85 cap with everyone in dex sets isn't what i want for sure.

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Originally Posted by Congeniality

Is the talon auto range 12m? If not, then the cooldown nerf in theory shouldn't affect the class that heavily. This is because the archer class is designed to work from the 10-12m range primarily, with fallback mechanics to help it re-establish that distance. Thus, I feel that the talon proc nerf, if the talon has always been under 12m auto range, is justified in order to secure the identity of the class.

Hope this helps!

Walie :)

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

That's a really good point from a class point of view.

All I've been trying to get through to people is... If 90% of people are using the talon, it's obvious that the talon was far superior to the other weapons. And that I don't need a set to see what everyone is wearing and use a little common sense. Therefore a nerf is/was justified. Another 85 cap with everyone in dex sets isn't what i want for sure.

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Read the bold line again and then read this again -

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

We will see about balance once everyone has sets. Hard to tell as of yet. But to say it's balanced when all of maybe 6 people that pvp have sets lol is kinda pre-mature

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When someone else does it, it's "pre-mature" but when it comes to you, it's common sense, kinda contradiction. Even though OP is the one who has set since pretty early phase and do pvp.

I don't wanna provide any feedback right now, also because I'm keeping my hope for the 2h weaps specially bow. BUT what I can clearly say is that, it was too early to make a decision and nerf talon set.

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

All I've been trying to get through to people is... If 90% of people are using the talon, it's obvious that the talon was far superior to the other weapons.

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Dex set always have been favorite for all classes and there's solid reasons behind it. STR and INT sets ain't viable such way for other classes. Every class can use dex set and can do well, but for example if int set gets op, what happens? not clear? every other class vanishes and everyone uses a mage just like what happened in early 80 cap, why because int set wouldn't be viable for other classes that way.

Also IDK where do u get such stats (imaginary axis? just like the contradictions?) - 90%, far superior etc, what I noticed like 1 mage i saw with talon set and few str bears and few birds, pre-nerf.

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Originally Posted by Waug

Read the bold line again and then read this again -



When someone else does it, it's "pre-mature" but when it comes to you, it's common sense, kinda contradiction. Even though OP is the one who has set since pretty early phase and do pvp.

I don't wanna provide and feedback right now, also because I'm keeping my hope for the 2h weaps specially bow. BUT what I can clearly say is that, it was too early to make a decision and nerf talon set.



Dex set always have been favorite for all classes and there's solid reasons behind it. STR and INT sets ain't valuable such way for other classes. Every class can use dex set and can do well, but for example if int set gets op, what happens? not clear? every other class vanishes and everyone uses a mage just like early 80 cap, why because int set wouldn't be viable for other classes that way.

Also IDK where do u get such stats (imaginary axis? just like the contradictions?) - 90%, far superior etc, what I noticed like 1 mage i saw with talon set and few str bears and few birds, pre-nerf.

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LOL quoting what i say from before people had sets and after people had sets trying to make me look bad? It even still says in one of my posts all of 6 people had sets at THAT time, stop living in the past. Now dozens all have dex sets, for the talon proc. #FACT

P.S. Kanital ate mages 80 cap, but he knew his class.

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

LOL quoting what i say from before people had sets and after people had sets trying to make me look bad? It even still says in one of my posts all of 6 people had sets at THAT time, stop living in the past. Now dozens all have dex sets, for the talon proc. #FACT

P.S. Kanital ate mages 80 cap, but he knew his class.

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Talon nerf thread 4-24-2018
Your post - 4-20-2018

Nothing drastically changed in these 4 days.

Let me correct you again - kanital 'ate' YOU at 80. Whatever the case is that doesn't change the basic facts that int bear, bird ain't viable the way Dex mages, bears are.

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Originally Posted by Waug

Talon nerf thread 4-24-2018
Your post - 4-20-2018

Nothing drastically changed in these 4 days.

Let me correct you again - kanital 'ate' YOU at 80.

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Haha you removed "any decent bird" before you got owned lol

You mean nothing drastically changed besides dozens of people getting sets? The exact thing i said needed to happen before any evaluations of balance? I'm not sure if you're trying to embarrass yourself or point out my genius :)

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

Haha you removed "any decent bird" before you got owned lol

You mean nothing drastically changed besides dozens of people getting sets? The exact thing i said needed to happen before any evaluations of balance? I'm not sure if you're trying to embarrass yourself or point out my genius :)

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I removed the line - " any decent bird could 'ate" u, bcz I didn't want to pull a discussion down to personal lvl. Ofc that's fact that what i used to say, rather go and learn ur class thats mage.

Idk what ru talking about when I was the only one active non mage class at that time and if u mean, getting own against whole hands for help mages against 3/2 vs me, ofc u got some truth here.

Nothing changed much neither u personally got set.

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Originally Posted by Waug

I removed bcz I didn't want to pull a discussion down to personal lvl. Ofc that's fact that what used to say, rather go and learn ur class that mage.

Idk what ru talking about when I was the only one active non mage class at that time and if u mean, getting own against whole hands for help mages against 3/2 vs me, ofc u got some truth here.

Nothing changed much neither u personally got set.

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LOL you teaming my friends is what got me into pvp... i smell a double standard haha

Not my fault you team people, therefore get teamed. You would have lost any 1v1s anyway

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

LOL you teaming my friends is what got me into pvp... i smell a double standard haha

Not my fault you team people, therefore get teamed. You would have lost any 1v1s anyway

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Nothing more to say about the thread topic right? Now derail it.

IDC about what peps say like I'm the one was in family defy hands for help and all those guilds and I spam for help in guild chat and in my entire pl PvP all I did is team ppl - idc keep shouting.

My job is done here. U can keep shouting or just visit arena and learn ur class, ur choice

Good bye

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Originally Posted by Waug

Nothing more to say about the thread topic right? Now derail it.

IDC about what peps say like I'm the one was in family defy hands for help and all those guilds and I spam for help in guild chat and in my entire pl PvP all I did is team ppl - idc keep shouting.

My job is done here. U can keep shouting or just visit arena and learn ur class, ur choice

Good bye

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Ik my class, and yours. Not shocking though you took the thread off topic insulting me, then called me defending myself derailing the thread lol

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Originally Posted by Jilsponie

That's a really good point from a class point of view.

All I've been trying to get through to people is... If 90% of people are using the talon, it's obvious that the talon was far superior to the other weapons. And that I don't need a set to see what everyone is wearing and use a little common sense. Therefore a nerf is/was justified. Another 85 cap with everyone in dex sets isn't what i want for sure.

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Once again, stop providing false information for devs to interpret. Idk about you, but in PvP most people are using sets intended for their original class. The truth is, mages are using int sets, birds are using talon sets, and bears str sets. 90% of people are NOT and i can’t stress this enough NOT using the talon to pvp. In addition, the talon proc was put into place to compete against tankier/high healing sets. If you actually read through my posts, you’ll acknowledge the fact that I’m fine with a nerf to the talon, but not a nerf of this degree. Furthermore, a suggestion to rebalance the talon proc would be increasing base damage from the set (to actually be able to kill a mage), only allowing the talon to proc in combat, or reducing the cooldown to a more reasonable state.

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Originally Posted by SuperGotenks

Once again, stop providing false information for devs to interpret. Idk about you, but in PvP most people are using sets intended for their original class. The truth is, mages are using int sets, birds are using talon sets, and bears str sets. 90% of people are NOT and i can’t stress this enough NOT using the talon to pvp. In addition, the talon proc was put into place to compete against tankier/high healing sets. If you actually read through my posts, you’ll acknowledge the fact that I’m fine with a nerf to the talon, but not a nerf of this degree. Furthermore, a suggestion to rebalance the talon proc would be increasing base damage from the set (to actually be able to kill a mage), only allowing the talon to proc in combat, or reducing the cooldown to a more reasonable state.

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You mean since they nerfed the proc? That was the intention. I could name lots of names, post lots of ss to show my assessments are accurate, but you apparently can't accept facts. Don't think because i don't have a 105 elite set i don't still pvp and compete in 2v2 and 3v3 because i do. But ik my role and don't expect to be able to tank like a bear+nuke like a bird. I support my team. When bears like getrevoked go talon set, it's not compatible to the str set. When a good mage like lag is using a talon set instead of wand set, it's not compatible to the int set.

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Im talking about before the proc nerf. Don’t twist my words. I could care less about your experience with endgame pvp as it’s all blabber nonsense since you don’t have a set. Yes, birds are meant to do heavy damage, but from my experience and other experienced birds using the elite talon set, it doesn’t nuke as hard as the int set does. Additionally, mage is meant to be a support class as you said. If mages with the elite int set are able to heal, tank, and do more damage than a bird, where is the balance at? Bird damage should always outweigh a mage’s heal, which definitely absent this cap.

So what you're saying then, is the proc is fine and the talon needs more damage. The 2 are irrelevant to one another lol

The proc is armor and dodge, you're arguing to keep armor and dodge buffs on classes you're having trouble nuking....

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Originally Posted by SuperGotenks

Im talking about before the proc nerf. Don’t twist my words. I could care less about your experience with endgame pvp as it’s all blabber nonsense since you don’t have a set. Yes, birds are meant to do heavy damage, but from my experience and other experienced birds using the elite talon set, it doesn’t nuke as hard as the int set does. Additionally, mage is meant to be a support class as you said. If mages with the elite int set are able to heal, tank, and do more damage than a bird, where is the balance at? Bird damage should always outweigh a mage’s heal, which definitely absent this cap.

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Excellent example of how to get a thread closed.