Gale Force Changes

[Jed]

So.. flag running sorcerer:
Shield/heal | EDIT no, shield if curse because shield and curse seems like a good combo
Gale force
Curse/lightning depending on how effective curse is
Fireball
That'll be fun when people are chasing me. Curse 'em, spin and charge fireball them to get a couple seconds, gale force them to jump ahead and knock them down, heal if you need, continue cycle.
I was going to get gale for the speed anyway, but this extra should make things extra fun.

Question, how far does the gale force backwards push sorcerers compared to rogue's dash?

[falmear]

One of the reasons the mage is getting a backwards dash is to keep the different classes feeling different. It takes a bit more skill to wield well but it's a lot of fun to use the new gale force and will certainly be useful in certain PvE situations. It also makes chasing interesting and does make sorcerers a bit more formidable in PvP.

On a related note I died a couple times during testing from neglecting to notice I was cursed as I tried to pummel his shielded mage with aim shot... and paid the ultimate price. Shame.

Dashing backwards has limited uses in PVE. It makes more sense to dash forward, and then have the wind effect/damage. Dashing backwards means the wind effect goes off and then you move backwards. Also in some maps you are fighting in close proximity to ice and if you dash backwards into ice you are frozen. I suggest you play Crystal Caverns or Oltagar Keep and see how useful dashing backwards is. You are going to be reluctant to use wind in these situations. In PVP dashing in any direction will be formidable, if you dash foward you can turn to run away and then dash. Turn into a fight to dash backwards seems like suicide.

[moot]

Question, how far does the gale force backwards push sorcerers compared to rogue's dash?

I want this question answered too because I guess it wouldn't make sense if the mage pushed backwards a lot when fighting mobs.

[wawawa64]

Dashing backwards has limited uses in PVE. It makes more sense to dash forward, and then have the wind effect/damage. Dashing backwards means the wind effect goes off and then you move backwards. Also in some maps you are fighting in close proximity to ice and if you dash backwards into ice you are frozen. I suggest you play Crystal Caverns or Oltagar Keep and see how useful dashing backwards is. You are going to be reluctant to use wind in these situations. In PVP dashing in any direction will be formidable, if you dash foward you can turn to run away and then dash. Turn into a fight to dash backwards seems like suicide.

IMO, dashing in any direction has limited uses in PVE, not just for mage, but also for warrior and rogue too. Skysmash dashing for warriors mean you can be the first to engage in battle, but after that, it's pretty useless to dash because mobs don't run away and you are usually fighting at melee range. For rogue, shadow pierce dashing is only somewhat useful for dagger build. If you are a bow/trap rogue, it's not very useful.

As for mage, it depends on your build as well; if you like get to close and use staff and shield, dashing forward is useful, but if you like to use gun and attack at a distance, dashing backward seems more useful. For instance, you can launch a fireball to knockdown, run in to launch timeshift, then follow by gale force to knockdown again and dash backward to get away and launch another fireball.

[Jed]

I want this question answered too because I guess it wouldn't make sense if the mage pushed backwards a lot when fighting mobs.

I want it to be far for pvp. Guess shorter is good for pve, longer good for pvp.

[JaytB]

I read most of the comments but, personally, I like the changes as described in the OP. Personally again, I would keep it as it was first described.

Whatever changes might make it through, I'm happy to hear gale is going to become a better skill. I recently specced gale in for maximum AoE dmg and am looking forward to how the changes will play out in PvE.

[drgrimmy]

Hmm seems like opinions are all over they place. I think it is best if you just make the changes as you see fit and then we test it out. I think any of the above changes would be welcomed and would make many happy!

But just for a crazy idea. If part of the intent of gale and dash is for running, wouldn't it be cool if with charged gale the attack fired behind you and you dashed forward. It would only make sense that a dash forward would cause a displacement of air behind you If you needed to run away from enemies in pvp, you start running, charge gale and release it to stun the people behind you chasing you and to dash ahead. This would also still make the dash useful for running flags, timed runs, and running through elite mobs to get to friends when you have to revive at the start of a map. Otherwise the backwards dash pretty much eliminates the advantage of the 25% speed boost. You can imagine that any distance you gain with a 25% speed boost would be pretty much be eliminated by a backwards dash when you are trying to run.

[vholt]

I still want dash backwards.

Newtons Third Law of Motion: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[Linkincena]

Please don't remove dodge from gale ...
Da backward push is good...
1 suggestion - it should be given extra force to throw mobs away,...

[Lady_Pebbles]

Dashes are also often used to get to the end of maps too. We'd have to turn our toons around just to "booty bump" in the air to get to the bosses for the drops while getting the speed boosts lol. Makes no sense.

I still think dashing forward would be much better than backwards. Think of pinball games, wouldn't it be fun to dash forward and hit a coupoe of targets OR mage dashes forward, hits one target, that target gets ricochet from one target to another? Haha, little blue goblin pinball of doom ftw. XD

EDIT: Also loooove the idea for 50% armor for 4 seconds instead of 25% dodge! Mages are in need of more armor for survivability.

[Cero]

i think this backslide effect is good for me.

when i pvp i stun the enemy first charging ahead leaving the tank behind to stun the enemy then retreat or brings up shield and tank. Now with the backslide i can stun and retreat fast love it.


also this backslide is good counter from axe's pull, cross fingers.


so pls just leave it be.

[savie]

lets just stick to the initial plan for the upgrades of gale force? it was all good in the first place until all the comments came in :/

[Energizeric]

I don't use Gale and probably won't even after this update, but just a thought.... Isn't +25% dodge better than +50% armor?

+25% dodge effectively reduces the damage you take by 25% since one in four hits will now miss you.

Does +50% armor reduce your damage by 25%? I doubt it. If it did, that would mean your base armor would reduce damage by 50% which I know it doesn't.

Seems like the dodge is better than the armor. I suppose against a rogue the armor will guarantee you won't be one hit, while the dodge just gives a chance at that, but overall the dodge will cause you to incur less damage over time.

[Linkincena]

Power of gale is awesome when u fight mobs or a group in pvp.....

[jb57542]

I don't use Gale and probably won't even after this update, but just a thought.... Isn't +25% dodge better than +50% armor?

+25% dodge effectively reduces the damage you take by 25% since one in four hits will now miss you.

Does +50% armor reduce your damage by 25%? I doubt it. If it did, that would mean your base armor would reduce damage by 50% which I know it doesn't.

Seems like the dodge is better than the armor. I suppose against a rogue the armor will guarantee you won't be one hit, while the dodge just gives a chance at that, but overall the dodge will cause you to incur less damage over time.

I personally want the armor since it'll reduce all damage incurred while dodge is just a chance. It's similar to the crit vs pure damage argument and I believe the DMG being consistent vs burst DMG won when u did the math for overall dps.

My second reason I want armor is because I don't believe dodge works well in PvP even for rogues.

[Rare]

I don't use Gale and probably won't even after this update, but just a thought.... Isn't +25% dodge better than +50% armor?

+25% dodge effectively reduces the damage you take by 25% since one in four hits will now miss you.

Does +50% armor reduce your damage by 25%? I doubt it. If it did, that would mean your base armor would reduce damage by 50% which I know it doesn't.

Seems like the dodge is better than the armor. I suppose against a rogue the armor will guarantee you won't be one hit, while the dodge just gives a chance at that, but overall the dodge will cause you to incur less damage over time.

Yeah, except we all know how percentages work. I'd rather have less damage and time to pot spam rather than the "chance" of dodging an attack in that small amount of time

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[GoodSyntax]

I don't use Gale and probably won't even after this update, but just a thought.... Isn't +25% dodge better than +50% armor?

+25% dodge effectively reduces the damage you take by 25% since one in four hits will now miss you.

Does +50% armor reduce your damage by 25%? I doubt it. If it did, that would mean your base armor would reduce damage by 50% which I know it doesn't.

Seems like the dodge is better than the armor. I suppose against a rogue the armor will guarantee you won't be one hit, while the dodge just gives a chance at that, but overall the dodge will cause you to incur less damage over time.

I don't think that 25% Dodge means that 1 in every 4 attacks miss. I'm not sure what the exact mechanics are, but I do know that there is a hidden Hit%, which, similar to PL, Dodge serves to offset. My rouge, when fully buffed, can get to well over 60% Dodge, but as I've said in other posts, hits land more often than Dodge would imply. At 60+% Dodge, my "real" or effective dodge rate is more like 25-35%. I dodge more often against lower level mobs (maybe at 40%), but against bosses and PvP it's lower (more like the 20-25% range).

I'm not sure where the break-even point would be between added Dodge versus added Armor, but I suspect that 50% armor is more serviceable than 25% Dodge.

Between the 50% armor and the damage reduction/invincibility of Arcane Shield, Sorcerers have the potential to be extremely tanky (probably even better than a Paladin in PL with their Mana Shields). Two seconds of invincibility, plus a net increase in armor of about 70% (Gale + Shield DMG reduction) would mean that for 15 seconds or so a Sorc would be nearly invincible.

I'm going to have to play with my Sorc toon's build, and see just how effective Gale, Shield, Fireball and Time will be. I can just see this as a super-tank with tons of snare and AoE ability - perfect for running elite maps. I will miss the Ice and Lightning skills in my nuking rotation, but I'll trade nuke for survivability, plus, I won't need Heal anymore, and everyone will just have to comment "Sorc doesn't heal" while I am busy out-tanking my entire party.

[drgrimmy]

I don't use Gale and probably won't even after this update, but just a thought.... Isn't +25% dodge better than +50% armor?

+25% dodge effectively reduces the damage you take by 25% since one in four hits will now miss you.

Does +50% armor reduce your damage by 25%? I doubt it. If it did, that would mean your base armor would reduce damage by 50% which I know it doesn't.

Seems like the dodge is better than the armor. I suppose against a rogue the armor will guarantee you won't be one hit, while the dodge just gives a chance at that, but overall the dodge will cause you to incur less damage over time.

Good point. It think it depends. If you are sustaining a lot of little hits over time, then I would go with the 25% dodge. If you are facing the situation where you periodically sustain large hits that come very close to killing you, then I would go for the armor boost. I think the major problem with our class is that our damage and our armor is so low that we are prone to getting one-shotted in elite levels, particularly by the bosses. 25% dodge may prevent you from getting one-shotted every 1 out of 4 times, but I think increased armor is far better. If find my survivability against elite bosses substantially improved with only minor changes to health, armor and damage reduction in comparison to a 50% armor boost. I think that a 50% armor boost is really going to help us out a lot in terms of survivability with big hits from elite bosses, alowig us to survive far more than 1 out of every 4 hits that used to one shot us.

[Jed]

tanking sorcerer in pvp
oh I'm going to be so annoying

[wawawa64]

I don't use Gale and probably won't even after this update, but just a thought.... Isn't +25% dodge better than +50% armor?

+25% dodge effectively reduces the damage you take by 25% since one in four hits will now miss you.

Does +50% armor reduce your damage by 25%? I doubt it. If it did, that would mean your base armor would reduce damage by 50% which I know it doesn't.

Seems like the dodge is better than the armor. I suppose against a rogue the armor will guarantee you won't be one hit, while the dodge just gives a chance at that, but overall the dodge will cause you to incur less damage over time.

I think it's also dependent on the mobs/boss's "hit percentage". You can see this when you are running the lower level maps, the mobs miss a lot more often than the ones in higher level maps. So without knowing the "hit percentage" from mob's/boss, we don't know how good is +25% dodge. For instance, if a boss has +125% hit percentage, with a +25% dodge, you will still get hit 100% of the time (assuming the hit/dodge calculation is just a simple subtraction like that).

Maybe STS can shine some light on this topic regarding hit/dodge percentage.