Feedback Request: No more Elite Dungeons

[Zanpakuto]

We've decided to keep the Elite maps for now. What really made up my mind was the role of the Warrior. That's not to say we still don't want to find a different solution but there are several things we have to address before we do (figure out how to make Warriors more useful against easier opponents as well as against bosses etc).

The feedback have been fantastic and you're welcome to keep it going, I will keep looking at the thread.

Thanks everyone!

Have fun looking at the number of new players dropping the game after a week or so of play after they level cap especially if they're warriors! Reason being items are expensive on that class and even IF you had the the best gear you get knocked around too much and end up potion burning. It's fine to keep elite maps alive, but you seriously have to make warriors armor at least double of what it is now and get rid of sorceror's heal gaining aggro. I ran some non nordr elite maps on my rogue with another rogue + 2 mages and we blew through that map in record time. All the noob tanks that don't have mythic gear or unlimited potions don't even get invited nowadays.

[Swede]

I think the elite maps might get played more if people knew that if they DC they can rejoin their group. I wonder if adding the option to have the run be timed elite or untimed (no chance at leader boards but team mates can get back in if they drop) might make a difference and help solve the issue of the difficulty of finding a good pug in elites. (or any pug at all. Ifi forget to dismiss my pet, I shouldn't have to stand there long enough tht he needs to get fed in order to even get a run started.)

Agreed, a big problem. The quick solution, get rid of timed runs on Elites. The long and new tech solution, allow an option to run either timed or not. It's definitely one of the most important things for us to address with Elites though.

[Pandamoni]

Have fun looking at the number of new players dropping the game after a week or so of play after they level cap especially if they're warriors! Reason being items are expensive on that class and even IF you had the the best gear you get knocked around too much and end up potion burning. It's fine to keep elite maps alive, but you seriously have to make warriors armor at least double of what it is now and get rid of sorceror's heal gaining aggro. I ran some elite maps on my rogue with another rogue + 2 mages and we blew through that map in record time. All the noob tanks that don't have mythic gear or unlimited potions don't even get invited nowadays.

You're running with the wrong people. I invite whichever tank is on my friend list. If someone can play well, even if theyre not in mythics, they'll get added to my friend list. And I do prefer to run elites with a tank. It is quite nice. The problem isn't not having mythics, the problem is many tanks don't use taunt skills and then get oissed off when the mages can't provide one hundred percent crowd control and also keep mana and health charged.

[Alrisaia]

Have fun looking at the number of new players dropping the game after a week or so of play after they level cap especially if they're warriors!

Really? Why would end gamers drop from the game again? after investing all that time to cap? People with that kind of dedication don't throw their arms into the air and rage quit a game because they don't have the BEST gear in the game...

Reason being items are expensive on that class and even IF you had the the best gear you get knocked around too much and end up potion burning.

All Elite items are expensive mate - and nobody is forcing anyone to run elites here - this is simply an option... if you don't want to run elite, don

It's fine to keep elite maps alive, but you seriously have to make warriors armor at least double of what it is now and get rid of sorceror's heal gaining aggro.

Warrior's armor DOUBLE? Remove Mages Aggro from Heal??? Risk:Reward mate Risk:Reward... the fundamental balance that must stay intact here is risk and reward if it gets out of whack - too many people run elites and too much elite gear goes on the market, thus making it rediculous to try to farm it and make any real gold and work toward mythic items, ultimately causing people to farm crates instead of elite items which is right back where we are today.

I ran some non nordr elite maps on my rogue with another rogue + 2 mages and we blew through that map in record time. All the noob tanks that don't have mythic gear or unlimited potions don't even get invited nowadays.

If that's what you want to do - then great, continue to run non-Elite Nordr Maps and farm those eggs and items. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! There are plenty of noob tanks in my guild that get invited every day to elites. Elite difficulty level doesn't change who gets invited and who doesn't. People do.

Sorry - I just think sometimes that people think that everyone who runs elites are elitist snobs and I disagree - while some will only run with others who have the best gear and they're doing it to farm and earn gold and that's who they chose to run with fine, but not everyone in the community is like that.

I've made it a point to maintain my Elite Pink gear instead of mythic - even when I buy Mythic I won't wear it all the time - just to prove a point that Elite runs ARE possible WITHOUT Mythic Gear. Mythic Gear makes your stats better - Skill and spec make your toon a valuable asset to a group - and YOU are the one who has to tap the buttons in the right order to make your toon most effective... I am in fact still wearing an EPIC Ring. The only place I run is in Elite. I oftentimes survive when the tank dies if my skills are used properly and I have the right pet.

[Zanpakuto]

Really? Why would end gamers drop from the game again? after investing all that time to cap? People with that kind of dedication don't throw their arms into the air and rage quit a game because they don't have the BEST gear in the game...

-I was actually speaking of the new players from 1-36 for the first time. Once they get to cap, trust me they will have next to no cash. But I'll get into that later.

All Elite items are expensive mate - and nobody is forcing anyone to run elites here - this is simply an option... if you don't want to run elite, don

-Argument here is fine and dandy, but if you're not geared up, you will not be running elite period. Can't run, can't make money, all your pugs will fail and you will stress and quit. Why play a game when u there's nothing to do after cap?

Warrior's armor DOUBLE? Remove Mages Aggro from Heal??? Risk:Reward mate Risk:Reward... the fundamental balance that must stay intact here is risk and reward if it gets out of whack - too many people run elites and too much elite gear goes on the market, thus making it rediculous to try to farm it and make any real gold and work toward mythic items, ultimately causing people to farm crates instead of elite items which is right back where we are today.

-Argument is flawed and I can tell that you are someone who probably has the best team ready to go on an elite run at a fingers touch. If STS wishes to stay at the number 1 spot for mobile MMORPG gaming, they need more players. New players simply wouldn't have much interest in this game because the difficulty level has risen too high without spending real hard cash. I know because many of my friends have quit for this very reason

If that's what you want to do - then great, continue to run non-Elite Nordr Maps and farm those eggs and items. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! There are plenty of noob tanks in my guild that get invited every day to elites. Elite difficulty level doesn't change who gets invited and who doesn't. People do.

-kudos to u if you do do that, but given the choice between a geared up player vs a noob player you'd eventually stop choosing the noob. Great guild if you keep inviting all your members to elite though!

Sorry - I just think sometimes that people think that everyone who runs elites are elitist snobs and I disagree - while some will only run with others who have the best gear and they're doing it to farm and earn gold and that's who they chose to run with fine, but not everyone in the community is like that.

-I think all new players should join your guild!

I've made it a point to maintain my Elite Pink gear instead of mythic - even when I buy Mythic I won't wear it all the time - just to prove a point that Elite runs ARE possible WITHOUT Mythic Gear. Mythic Gear makes your stats better - Skill and spec make your toon a valuable asset to a group - and YOU are the one who has to tap the buttons in the right order to make your toon most effective... I am in fact still wearing an EPIC Ring. The only place I run is in Elite. I oftentimes survive when the tank dies if my skills are used properly and I have the right pet.[/QUOTE]

-Yes trust me I do this too. I actually own some of the best gears, but don't use them purely because certain situations epic is actually better for STR as an example. No real point to argue as elites still live another expansion, but if we had access to the number of new accounts /players I'm absolutely positive that the quitting ratio has increased since kraken Isles. People like us probably won't quit because we've invested so much time farming and it's interesting how STS is updating the game towards people who are the wealthiest in the game. Timed run with mythic rings prizes was the perfect example. I guess we oldies are spending tons of money on plats! It's the new players that I believe STS has started to ignore and you will never see their opinion on the forums because they just wouldn't make it this far to care. I must speak for them

[rushmore]

I've got a lvl31 rogue and a lvl24 mage, been playing this for maybe 3 or 4 months now and i can tell you I'm only continuing to play this game until a viable alternative comes on the market (tbh i barely even play when i do sign in, i mostly chat now as helping guildies had become pointless since the new 'scaling' on normal maps). I'm noticing alot of my guild members get to the low 20s levels then just stop playing (coincidence that this is around dead city scaling?) i myself am currently stuck at kraken with my mage, being a casual gamer it has become a chore to play now. If this scaling idea sticks then i will be deleting my account, along with some friends who have said they will do the same, and just pay something else. This is a mobile game, i expect to be able to jump on for half an hour and feel like I've had fun. The last several weeks have been completely void of this. Disappointed.

[Zanpakuto]

I've got a lvl31 rogue and a lvl24 mage, been playing this for maybe 3 or 4 months now and i can tell you I'm only continuing to play this game until a viable alternative comes on the market (tbh i barely even play when i do sign in, i mostly chat now as helping guildies had become pointless since the new 'scaling' on normal maps). I'm noticing alot of my guild members get to the low 20s levels then just stop playing (coincidence that this is around dead city scaling?) i myself am currently stuck at kraken with my mage, being a casual gamer it has become a chore to play now. If this scaling idea sticks then i will be deleting my account, along with some friends who have said they will do the same, and just pay something else. This is a mobile game, i expect to be able to jump on for half an hour and feel like I've had fun. The last several weeks have been completely void of this. Disappointed.

Glad to see you chime in, your opinion matches that of many casual players that STS has started to ignore. I also used to play this game in a line up at coffee, but now the only thing I can do during a break is the daily quests! Dev's should pay closer attention to people like you

[Rajnikanth]

i completely agree with zanpuk and rush.
m lvl31 warrior and lvl30mage. m playing since season 1 so m quite rich.

well upto season 2 it was good. pugs were also good. bt when mythic comes to play and season 4 is worst for me atm. cant do elites unless there is good tank or mage. bosses were too hard.
elite enemies r now scaled in such way that even full on mythic player tends to spam alot pots and drop rates too r crap.

also an average party cant kill any normal nodr boss.

m quite frustrated to play this game so i quit warrior and playing mage instead. it is going ok bt at lvl30 enemies r too difficult. soloing elites at lvl30 is out of question.

now i question myself y i play this game lol.
atm i quiting and again i will return when new expansion comes.

[rushmore]

Glad to see you chime in, your opinion matches that of many casual players that STS has started to ignore. I also used to play this game in a line up at coffee, but now the only thing I can do during a break is the daily quests! Dev's should pay closer attention to people like you

I'm pleased other people are noticing it too, i see alot of folks on here saying the challenge is good and they like it being more difficult, and that's fine for those who can master advanced techniques/call upon awesome team mates/have masses of disposable funds available...but it does feel like the 'little guys' are being slowly forgotten about. I can sink a few pounds into a mobile game every month or so, but this game requires almost a constant trickle of cash injected in to be able to roll with the latter maps/bosses. If I'm going to spend upwards of £30 on a game I'll buy a console game that is a one-time purchase with as much chance of progression as anyone else who buys it. What with enemies now scaling to highest player level, and respawns costing plat unless you want the walk of shame (usually arriving just after boss is killed so no loot), this game is looking more and more like a pay-to-win brag-fest for the rich kids with mythic gear, arcane pets and mummy's credit card. The gulf is widening and it ends with the casual gamer looking elsewhere.

[Taejo]

This is a mobile game, i expect to be able to jump on for half an hour and feel like I've had fun.

I also used to play this game in a line up at coffee, but now the only thing I can do during a break is the daily quests!

A mobile game it may very be (hybrid actually, many people play on PC, too), but it's an MMORPG genre game. Since the creation of RPGs, they have never been as 'casual' as you're describing you want them to be. I'm sorry, but perhaps you've ventured into the wrong genre of online games. I have been enjoying RPGs since pen & paper Dungeons and Dragons to the very first MUDs (Runescape, etc.), and there has never been any sense of 'casualness' that would let a player do anything productive while standing in line to get coffee. If that's your gaming style, I think MMORPGs may not be right for you.

soloing elites at lvl30 is out of question.

Right. Soloing end-game elite maps is pretty much out of the question period, for L30 or L31. Regardless, I don't think elite maps are really meant to be soloed anyway. The design fosters assembling a solid team and using strategy.

...that's fine for those who can master advanced techniques/call upon awesome team mates/have masses of disposable funds available...
...this game is looking more and more like a pay-to-win brag-fest for the rich kids with mythic gear, arcane pets and mummy's credit card...

Let's leave money out of this thread, please. It's not constructive input, simply because it's a generalization that is not proven to be true in every player's experience of the game. I am one of the people on the "keep elites" side of the argument. However, I do not plat revive, buy elixers, or have "disposable funds" available. And yet, through hard work, making friends, and adopting strategy into my play style, I've managed to get most of the achievements, find a spot on the LB, and make enough gold to buy my toon's mythics. Yes, this all takes a lot of time. Which is why I'll say again that MMORPGs are not designed for a gamer who only wishes to spend 30 minutes a day doing something.

[Alrisaia]

I'm with Taejo - MMO is an acronym meaning:

Massively Multiplayer Online I really think that the two terms - Massive and Multiplayer need to be stressed here... what other multiplayer game with this level of content can you think of that you can play in a coffee line? If you can think of one - maybe that's the right one to be playing...

This game fills a niche that no other game that I've found fills. It's game mechanics are albeit simple, there's things for casual players to do, as well as hardcore gamers. There's no reason why a casual player shouldn't be able to enjoy this game - getting onto the LB, or running Elite is something that takes dedication as well as time - but more importantly it takes relationships. Relationships are what will keep people playing this game, more so than any content they can throw at us.

[Haligali]

Pls, just leave it as it is.

[Energizeric]

Agreed, a big problem. The quick solution, get rid of timed runs on Elites. The long and new tech solution, allow an option to run either timed or not. It's definitely one of the most important things for us to address with Elites though.

How about you don't have to choose, but the system decides for you. If a player joins a run after it has already started, the timer goes off and you can no longer do a timed run. So if a player gets disconnected, he can rejoin, but the team can no longer get credit for a timed run if he rejoins. I think 99% of teams do not care about timed runs.

[falmear]

How about you don't have to choose, but the system decides for you. If a player joins a run after it has already started, the timer goes off and you can no longer do a timed run. So if a player gets disconnected, he can rejoin, but the team can no longer get credit for a timed run if he rejoins. I think 99% of teams do not care about timed runs.

I agree with this, please cancel the timer if someone joins the map after the timer is started. This way people who are disconnected can join or you can invite someone else mid way through. Don't lock the map once the timer is started and cancel the timer if someone joins the map when the timer is running.

[Energizeric]

I think that solution would work very well. Remember, the main reason people don't do elite maps is fear they will get part of the way through and not be able to finish. That's why PUGs don't do elites very much.

If I could start an elite dungeon by myself (very slowly and one elite mob at a time) and then have the possibility that players would join to help me, and then even if some left along the way, others could join and helm me finish, then I would be spending half my time there. Unlike most players, I have tons of patience. Problem with the current system is if I start doing an elite map by myself, it gets locked and there's no way I will be able to beat the boss by myself.

I remember in PL many players used to do the mount fang dungeons by themselves, and then PM their friends "free boss" so others would join to help fight the boss and get the easy/fast loot. It would be nice if that was possible in AL.

[Ebezaanec]

I think that solution would work very well. Remember, the main reason people don't do elite maps is fear they will get part of the way through and not be able to finish. That's why PUGs don't do elites very much.

If I could start an elite dungeon by myself (very slowly and one elite mob at a time) and then have the possibility that players would join to help me, and then even if some left along the way, others could join and helm me finish, then I would be spending half my time there. Unlike most players, I have tons of patience. Problem with the current system is if I start doing an elite map by myself, it gets locked and there's no way I will be able to beat the boss by myself.

I remember in PL many players used to do the mount fang dungeons by themselves, and then PM their friends "free boss" so others would join to help fight the boss and get the easy/fast loot. It would be nice if that was possible in AL.

The problem is with the timer for elite dungeons. If you had an option to turn the timer off, then it would make it a regular elite map instead of always timed.

[Taejo]

I agree with this, please cancel the timer if someone joins the map after the timer is started. This way people who are disconnected can join or you can invite someone else mid way through. Don't lock the map once the timer is started and cancel the timer if someone joins the map when the timer is running.

I don't think the timer necessarily has to stop for this to work. They can have the code let the timer continue and still implement Energizeric's idea - just have a message in the chat box come up "Timed run cancelled" or something. I for one like seeing my time in elite runs because it also gives me a general sense of whether or not I should even attempt to beat a LB time. Either way, the idea is good and will solve a major problem the game currently has.

[Rajnikanth]

rofl.
first solve the party bug when bael shows.
some of my frnd invited me bt i couldnt join since showing game full or reserved bt there r 2frnds only

[Energizeric]

I think if STS can handle it, it's a nice idea to have both the elite dungeons and have some elite bosses show up in regular dungeons the way bael 2 and krunch 2 do. That way if you don't want to run elites you can still run regular dungeons looking for elite bosses. You can also farm for eggs (rooks nest?) or crates (KM3?) and earn money that way. And if you have put together a good party and want to run elites, you can do that too.

But I do think the elites should not all scale up. In the last expansion, the original elite dungeons only scaled to 26. So now in the next expansion I think dead city should only scale to 31, and so on. So there should only be the current expansion and the previous 2 that will scale to cap level. The others should start to slow down. That way there will even be elite farming for twink items later on.

[Taejo]

I think if STS can handle it, it's a nice idea to have both the elite dungeons and have some elite bosses show up in regular dungeons the way bael 2 and krunch 2 do. That way if you don't want to run elites you can still run regular dungeons looking for elite bosses. You can also farm for eggs (rooks nest?) or crates (KM3?) and earn money that way. And if you have put together a good party and want to run elites, you can do that too.

But I do think the elites should not all scale up. In the last expansion, the original elite dungeons only scaled to 26. So now in the next expansion I think dead city should only scale to 31, and so on. So there should only be the current expansion and the previous 2 that will scale to cap level. The others should start to slow down. That way there will even be elite farming for twink items later on.

I agree with 2 campaigns being scaled to the L35/36 level (Nordr and Shadows), but have Dead City scale up again? Are you sure you didn't mean to say Kraken? I think they need to start providing the opportunity to farm twink gears now rather than wait, or (EDIT: a good amount of the end-game) fan-base won't last until the L41 expansion. An example of how they can begin to allow this:

Level bracket: Campaign

L15/16: Brackenridge
L15/16: Rook's Nest
L25/26: Dead City
L30/31: Kraken
L35/36: Nordr
L35/36: Shadows

** As Energizeric suggested in a prior post: Keep all forms (normal, Banded, Pirate, Warchest) of elite Copper, Silver and Gold chests (but please don't rename them "III" - in fact, just take away the roman numerals all together). Modify/maintain their loot to contain level bracket-specific loot - specifically legendaries/mythics.