That would be wickeeed. Please doOriginally Posted by falmear
That would be wickeeed. Please do
Credits to Iady
So are you saying that you are in favor of this and would support such a change?
yep. Id favour 2seconds invulnerability + about 700+ armor than 30% less armor which is like 300 armor less when maxed.So are you saying that you are in favor of this and would support such a change?
Credits to Iady
I look forward to having your support on this idea.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...ield&p=1265597
yeah maybe you increase dmg to warriors and inprove sorcs but are you devs even thinking about twinks i mean lvl 5-17 twinks. they never k.o a single target, not even a weak mage since with best rogue gears max you can crit is 700 and im saying best gears. i have a pretty skilled lvl16 twink and now if a warrior comes with the best armor, no matter that i use glacian+5m costing Armor i still lose while i never before. i also tested out the crit on max lvl16 warrior and i took 15% of his health only whilr back in season 3 i used to take about 30-40% of hp. A good rogue twink is now weak against a same good warrior or a mage since thr damage is about equal and the healing spells are not, plus warriors have 3-4 shield-heals spells and sorcs have shield, heal and stun spells. i really hope this gets fixed
To be fair, it was a hard bug to catch and not many knew about it. Heck, I wasn't aware until after the bug was patched.
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I was aware about crit stacks but didnt notice it was a bug.
@falmear I didnt see you reporting the mage shield either so, were all kinda guilty, if we were aware.
Last edited by Bless; 09-14-2013 at 05:01 PM.
Credits to Iady
it's an awful feeling to be 1 shot heh?
Love.. seriously? I've seen you play and take down full teams. what are you whining about!? :P anyways..
What more do you mages want seriously?
You got your crit and aimshot like skill (lightning which also adds stun)
You just got your piercing like skill that lets you run chase and flag as fast as us...
You got your 2s shield, & dmg reduction
You got your OP fireball stuns
You got heals that heals you instantly (whereas alot of rogues have to hunt for their heals b/c they drop randomly)
You got your Alpha Wolf Shield
I can go on and on with the list and frankly you can't name half those things that Rogues are advantaged in.
Only thing rooting for us is our 1 skill aimshot, and it's been nerfed I don't know how many times now and it's not a 100% 1 hit skill as it only does worthy damage if on Crit.
(i) regarding crit - rogues stack: aimed + high base crit + crit pets + crit blades. mages benefit from 1 crit skills that does not stack + crit pet.
(ii) regarding pierce - i guess we're on par now.
(iii) regarding defense - rogues have 30% more armor that last the entire fight, we have 2secs invulnerability on charged shield (provided it doesnt fail) and dmg reduction of 30% that lasts 10 secs. There is now a thread suggesting we make a trade off here.. go support it! on the other hand, shadow veil/razor shield provides 20% armor/dodge buff.. you could drop a offensive skill and pick a defensive one, but I guess you're not willing to make such a trade off.
(iv) regarding stuns - rogues get stuns from charged regular attack and pets. we get stuns from regular attacks, 2 charged skills and pets. there is a 8 sec immunity to stuns already in place to nerf mages overly using stun. We're on par here.
(v) regarding heal - rogues heal allows you to save packs for when you need it, so can throw your pack at beginning of fight and then again at the middle after cd is over. Mages heal is a one time use only.
My rogue kills warriors just fine, even maul warriors.Seems like you guys still want more? I say LOL to that.
Try playing rogue and compare before you start throwing out assumptions.
I have a mage and a rogue so I'm talking from experience.
My rogue kills some mages, not all of them.. haven't tested this much yet, I'm sure I have room to improve here.
My mage cannot kill most warriors, let alone a maul one.
My mage can kill some rogues, not all.. if they know how to counter stun, im dead..
I too am talking from experience -.-
The toeless smurf!
Thank you for the compliment but i'm talking on behalf of the majority of rogues I see playing.it's an awful feeling to be 1 shot heh?
Love.. seriously? I've seen you play and take down full teams. what are you whining about!? :P anyways..
Players like Pyschopathic, and other curse mages just steamroll them (and this is before the buff this week)
I come from a MMO-PVP background so I got quite a bit of experience as a PKer/PVPer so how I perform in PVP isn't reflected in my posts.
The problem is when you buff 2/3 classes, 1 class is left out and you're bound to get rants.
This cycle won't stop b/c now Rogues are going to demand like Mages used to, and if we do get a buff then Mages will feel like they're behind and it's a never ending cycle from there.
And Katish may I ask who you are?
I've got a list of warriors that will give any Rogue a run for their money.
And lastly you can't base your judgement soley on a 1v1 Outcome.
CTF is designed for 5v5 not 1v1.
Imagine if you got what you want and a Mage can win Wars/Rogues with ease. Wouldn't that be F*$(#%( OP as hell since almost all you're attacks hits 5+ targets.
Also want to say this to all the Mages out there
Just because you can't beat a mauler in a 1v1 doesn't mean your class needs a buff.
For starters get an arcane staff so you're on par. I'm pretty sure if a War invested a 40m weapon, they should have the upperhand vs your 3m gun.
Come back and tell us the results when you get an Arcane staff.
I knew about this bug for quite a while and so did many rogues. Just because you didn't, doesn't mean many people didn't know about it. And according to one person "Every good rogue has known this since their first week playing":
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...=1#post1096472
cant stand this...Give the smurf a break! youre complaining cos you cant kill or other rogues cant?
You guys suck! I see many rogues who can kill. Go and rethink your spec or gameplay. from s2 til mid s3 smurfs
had the hell on them and other class espicialy the rogues, were just making their stats pretty.
on this point each class can kill and be killed, thats balance. Yes, sorc cried for a buff but when did they get answers?
it took more than 2seasons!!!!
The one thing about this statement is this: how does one become a good rogue within their first week of playing?
Again, it was known to those who stacked aimed shot often and looked at their stats afterwards. A lot of rogues I have known, who many would consider good, did not know of this bug. Granted, many people did know of it, but an equal amount of people probably did not know of it & as a result, they charged aim shot.
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Actually, the same sorcerers that are usually complaining by the masses are the ones going against fully geared rogues and then complaining about rogues being OP.
Seriously, like Love said, do they expect their one mythic gun to conquer a full mythic + Samael rogue? Even after the buff, that's a laugh. Of course, some sorcerers are still going to state that they're underpowered when in reality, they're just outclassed by gear.
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I don't think I could have said it much better. The only thing I will add is I think the current state of the game is the most balanced it has been since its release.
Actually, the same sorcerers that are usually complaining by the masses are the ones going against fully geared rogues and then complaining about rogues being OP.
Seriously, like Love said, do they expect their one mythic gun to conquer a full mythic + Samael rogue? Even after the buff, that's a laugh. Of course, some sorcerers are still going to state that they're underpowered when in reality, they're just outclassed by gear.
) who? which thread? cos after mythic gun got released and curse got buffed, Sorc class got boost. And on those timeline rogues where the one complaining.
Buff this buff that. hooks for pve blah blah blah...
I dont believe whatever he says. If he cant subdue the person he'll cuss you. empty words. One of, his saying his gonna post some pics of me spawn killling him.lmao
one sided story,his lame story.
I guess rogues got addicted to easy kills. "one-two click kill happy".shield got fix fine, sorc palyers already adapt so many times from the previews seasons. And rogues cant even manage? lol.
for other rogues that I know who manage from this update. GJ.
Last edited by Cero; 09-15-2013 at 03:35 AM.
Ive pvped since update too.tho lesser than my usual hours spent but still valid to provide my feedback on the update.
Lost track how many ive killed.since i never really count.bt it did trigger or grab my attention to notice couple of changes of this update,that shouldnt be viewed as complaints (disagree on smtg not necessarily mean complaints btw) rather for for fruitful discussion.
Tanks and mages hv better crits and killing me beomes easier.im not gonna say its unfair since pvp is a versus between players without specific requirements on classes and open to all.so a rogue who is meant to make kills is expected for a stiffer competition since other classes now are rewarded with such ability.i agree in the end ultimately there will be no equal balance else the game core play is lost with a certain expiry date.
Mana pet does help yes but not all are keen to switch pets in the midst of battle since you are not fighting npc that you can plan attacks ahead.and we do know rogue (average even pros) roam with mali most of the time to buff their stats on hp and armour.and mana pets tho its a step we should consider to accommodate the update really do its job to replenish mana bt lesser stats ofc.still whilst rogues are struggling to keep up with the drastic mana lost,and use mana pet their vulnebarility is in fact exposed further more.so,if the mhytical balance that we all seeks is still perceived relevant in pvp,then other classes might be able to ponder or view rogue situation now from another angle-reviewing mana loss and skills cd timer for rogue does make sense for the class to achieve the said balance
For duel i.e tank i cant no longer duel with mali instead using mana pet like nexus and dodging and dancing more often than how the offensive moves normally be.thank god my toon doesnt sweat but fingers easily numb now.
Again to award other classes a better killing ability is comprehendable since its pvp.but rogue suffer -1 in totality of this update.
Btw 1v1 pvp i beg to differ its not meant as the parametre to measure balance among classes.you cant fight a tank for example by hvg similar movement behavior as clearly we have lesser armour and hp despite using high end gears.tank abd mage are gettig the dmg buff to cover the only significant cons of their classes.fair enough but imagine a rogue who is suffering other classes pros,yet no longer able to turn dmg into a significant edge..be it strategy,be it gears or skills or ping 1v1 include all these.no one can claim im undergeared as the path to gain tht edge you desire is open for public.if asking buffs coz of gear that aint right.
A common math of based stat for a rogue by maxing dex is used mostly by pink gears users as to maximize their dmg.even full mhytic does tht.fair point.so now rogue hv to consider allocating points in int to make up the mana issue.no excuse since we gotta adapt.fair point but we can all agree how this might scratch your head further to consider other elements tht has to been compensated in favour of "keeping up" which is not a tough thing to crack by other classes up to the update.so if amhw devs buff the losses of rogue in their def then perhaps this fair balance is achievable.(this is not a suggestion btw).simply said give others power to kill but give us good def and support in favour of the changes.
Btw lets use this thread as poibt of discussiob so sts can extract and weight the feedbacks to provide a solution if deemed necessary.i dont view it as complaints (tho i saw many complaints not views purely on rogues previously).if the views churned is not favourable to the outcome that the update is meant to provide it does not necessary means complaint.and its a norm to receive feedback within short period of update release.not all have the analytical minds to dive into the mechanics as this is in the end an entertainment product.also theres never been a specific mentioning of product testing period of each update release made by devs to give a buffer time to test an update.1week maybe an ideal time but depending on the scale of the changes no one can be certained.similar to hours,experience,skill ratinf and other elements like resources etc cn have an impact of how a player view and react towards an update.in the end we are all selfish as our views is never fully meant for the welfare of others.but good logics and facts for argument can mask that fact that provide the a premise that all can agree too.
Peace out.
Bad joke:an army of op rogues with absurd dmg ability cant win against an army of tanks or mages.this was before update and i dont intend to even test now.1v1?is it even the right parametre to be gaining buff on whats lacking.dont think thats tye ultimate essence of a duel in fact i dont see much usable facts to turn out for any buff request.its getting more emo now rather than a good analysis.afterall you will ultimately end up as each class and their roleplay.no ones fault its mmorpg basis.
Last edited by Alfai; 09-15-2013 at 05:51 AM.
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Again, from my earlier post, considering each classes skills.. how is that not balanced? mages were brought on par, that's all I see. Please feel free to comment in each of the points I enumerated to provided your insight as to how op mages are compared to rogues?
IGN in signatures sillyAnd Katish may I ask who you are?
The majority of the rogues out there aren't a challenge for psykopathic. Just like the majority of the mages out there aren't a challenge for you.I've got a list of warriors that will give any Rogue a run for their money.
And lastly you can't base your judgement soley on a 1v1 Outcome.
CTF is designed for 5v5 not 1v1.
Imagine if you got what you want and a Mage can win Wars/Rogues with ease. Wouldn't that be F*$(#%( OP as hell since almost all you're attacks hits 5+ targets.
I agree we cant base our judgment on 1v1 outcomes, so this whole point is mute. Mine and yours.
In a 5v5 match, provided both teams have a mix of classes and are somewhat equally geared, it's a pretty balanced match now.
I never said I wanted mages to win wars/rogues with ease or with dificulty.
The toeless smurf!
That's the whole point alfai. Rogues are not used to making trade offs. Why is it so impossible for rogues to consider lowering their dmg or giving up an offensive skill in pvp?
And in 5v5 matches mana really isn't an issue because you usually have a mage to replenish you, so I can only see mana being a problem in 1v1 duels or matches without a mage. And if you find yourself in a match without a mage on your side, invite one! Mages want to be wanted! A 5v5 match to be balanced should require a mix of classes.
This might be true, but then again the game isn't supposed to be balanced for a 1-class-only team.Bad joke:an army of op rogues with absurd dmg ability cant win against an army of tanks or mages.this was before update and i dont intend to even test now.1v1?is it even the right parametre to be gaining buff on whats lacking.dont think thats tye ultimate essence of a duel in fact i dont see much usable facts to turn out for any buff request.its getting more emo now rather than a good analysis.afterall you will ultimately end up as each class and their roleplay.no ones fault its mmorpg basis.
The toeless smurf!
Indeed it is.a direct solution to cover the loss of mana is to use mana pet.agreed tho debatable still.i dont think its uncommon to fear when a rogue is not excelling or doing wht they are meant to be.in this case its not the fear of having to reduce dmf to compensate for higher mana and hp.i personally doing that even.but the crux is when the damage is not on par as an offensive output of a class.imagine a tank who cant tank or mages who cant suppprt (putting aside other enhancements like gears or pets).the core essence of being a rogue class to kill cant be relied upon anymore.its not a small thing to me as its like altering a huge part of the game mechanics.if a tank loses its hp edge but better dmg cn he tank or be called a tank still.and this is a fact tgat rogue is at its worst since dmg is the most desirable element of all classes now despite the diff in purpose.and being rogue with no updates on their defense and now mana make em even more useless.if theres a rogue who cn work its way out of this and keeping his streaks without a threat thts beyond pro.but one thing for sure its a hellish journey or a deficit investment of resource to get even not even gaining an edge yet.
so the ultimate question wpuld be does rogue deserve to be in such condition based on the premise of fairness?we are perhaps using high end pink gears as basis for arguments.but getting good gears for buff etc is a fair competition where effforts and luck in smaller prcntg are still fair as it does not vary between classes.tk dmg n crits since thts wht matters but would others agree if rogue receives buff on hp and mana.so far from the threads in forum its a taboo and receive instant hatred but why not to make things seem balanced?give rogue whts they obviously lacking in def.if we wana create balance u need to contra the transactions.lesser lethal dmg but better defense.
I believe you have witnessed how a tank can solo a kill easily now or how a mage can function like they using bow just crits from a distance.even hidinf behind walls wont escape you from the lightning hit.in fact for a pvper its a new scene to see smurf pvping without having healing ability which immediately conflictinf with the support role.if a rogue needs a supporting attacks then this class got issue..yes i agree many ways to look into this on reviewing the best upgrades for rogue to stay competitive.in fact the solution might lies in the pvp room environment itself with enhancements made to help rogue to be useful.the season is fairly new and pperhaps more time is needed to define the actual issue or workingg solutions without affecting classes (with exception to rogues ofc).however to date the consistent feedback has been talking bout rogue costly mana consumption so perhaps its something to look at.the issue must be
mutually acceptable by all without any statements of making an overpowered class.
Tbh rogue is the class to fear the rest now since the request of dmg buffs is granted.but do u think its a fair and competitive challenge to fight a rogue now at this condition simply other classes are getting better dmg?we see clearly rogues advantage of dmg but the disadvantage which is more since its affecting how long rpgue can lasts in an encounter seems less important.im not sure whats fair since we are not gettinf any enhancements on defense either?if the hatred comes from rogue ability to kill then altering the concept of a class and their role simply to make em killer too can be a virus that crippled the game soon.i dont think its an overly thought of aftermath but worth a thought.and lets not forget other considerable factors than just getting better at making kills since the game and its platforms has specific objective.no doubt killing is the essence in the end so if we arent willing to dig deep for a contructive solution then make rogues or skills cost more practical for competitive reason.then its gf.just my honest and humble views.i dont think anyone would be satisfy knowing that they got my weapon and kill me without me having their armour.
Last edited by Alfai; 09-15-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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