build experimenting with free respec

[Veluthe]

So i decoded to take advantage of free respec weekend and experiment with different skill combinations. Im primarily focused on pve and pvp doesnt really interest me. That being said my build is as follows for pve and my playing style.
As 5
sp 3(multiple targets and health return)
traps 4(no explosion )
sv 4(no explosion )
str 4
int 5
dex 5
dmg 5

i wanted to incorpoate nox into my build to test the "noxbox" people refer to and for the DoT. So i tested a couple builds with it and came up with these.

As 5
nox 5
sp3(multiple targets and health return )
health packs3(increase heal and packs)
Str 5
dex 5
int 5
dmg 5
i know this seems more pvp oriented which i dont like but i tested nonetheless. It didnt do enough damage wise in terms of pve but i did try pvp too and did fairly well considering im not into it.

After that build i tried another with nox.
As 5
nox 5
traps4 (no explosion)
sv4(no explosion)
dex 5
int 5
dmg 5
str 3
In this one my plan was to utilize traps to group mobs then use nox to easier apply the poison DoT. Also youd have two DoTs going from traps bleed and the poison. Lots of dmg and numbers flying there! However i didnt feel completely comfortable without sp especially when i solo hunt bael/krunch etc. I was using much more pots due to im used to relying on aid of sp health return.

Thus i came up with this next.
As 5
nox 5
sp3(multiple targets and health return)
traps 4(no explosion)
sv4(no explosion)
str 5
int 5
dex 5
With this build i was able to keep my sp as well as nox. Same idea as previous build using as, nox, traps, sv for large mob groups in parties such as elite. Then id remap skills substituting yeaps for sp if i wanted to solo, run normal maps, or boss fights. I put these builds to test in party elites, soloable elites such as jarl, forest, and outskirts, and more.

After testing i came to multiple conclusions.
1. I found myself charging nox too often worried about its DoT which most likely caused me not to use other skills as much. Plus im not sure i was using "noxbox" correctly.
2. After using sp for so long im comfortable with it and it saves pots with the health regen. Its just too good to do without imo! Which btw i find funny cus i leveled to 31using similar build to alrisaia. Then my fellow hp rogues introduced me to sp and i grew to love it.
3.When i was soloing elites like jarl, outskirts, and forest i completed them faster with my original build as opposed to these new ones with nox. Again this may be due to me charging too often and not properly using noxbox.

With these conclusions in mind ill be sticking with my original build. Im most comfortable using it. Perhaps next cap or if al ever adds another skill slot on skill map ill add nox.

Perhaps this will help other rogues but its more your personal preference. Feedback and comments welcome.

[faychen]

Gave up nox too, dont wanna charge anything but shadow viel. I'm trying on max upgraded trap bcoz in shuyal elite maps the mobs are so huge and 99% of traps are triggled. And the mobs usually stay on traps until explosion, so this upgrade doesnt go in vain.

But idk about passive skill durable, does it effect our armor value? I dont see any change in stat...

[Veluthe]

Gave up nox too, dont wanna charge anything but shadow viel. I'm trying on max upgraded trap bcoz in shuyal elite maps the mobs are so huge and 99% of traps are triggled. And the mobs usually stay on traps until explosion, so this upgrade doesnt go in vain.

But idk about passive skill durable, does it effect our armor value? I dont see any change in stat...

Ya i only charge veil too. And i havent tried explosion on traps but know what you mean shuyal. Those mobs hit hard and the damaging smoke is annoying.

Yes the durable passive effects armor.Although you canf see stats change you can tell significant difference in combat. This applies to dmg and crit passives as well

[Alfai]

If i may share.

Shuyal maps.intensive mobs aggro among the highlight i noticed.in fact personally killing a boss is easier than mobs.70prcnt of my recent deaths are caused by their mobs despite dodging and good ping.its a positive challenge imho and i like it as most of my total pve deaths came from arena.curse that place.

As for rogue.nox is still valuable skills to use for effective killing.i have been experimenting with other less common skills offering (do bear im no pro so if im not doing it right etc its understandable im still learning anyways).traps on the other hands is less favorable for me despite me who like it most as mob control strategy.rogue weak def mechanism does not allow me to stick on a spot for more than few secs due to greyish poisonous pool that is lethal.so to take advantage on trap bleeding with full attack concentration for that short duration is too risky.plus the map wide geopraghic nature is among the factor to consider for the duration of runs,plats revive factor etc.i dropped nox for inan which was a huge mistake in favour of traps for mobs.

So for shuyal runs my current pve build as follow:
Max dex
Shadow pierce (1,3 4 upgrade)
Nox (all upgrades)
Aimed (all upgrades)
Veil (all except explode)
Passives max agi dmg crits and balance to might for hp.

Weapon:architect brut for mobs and bow for boss.i used talon or ribbit to max dmg impact on boss and faster kills.slag for mobs.
.i slightly reduce dmg n add more on might for arena.this i am still testinf both and adjustinf my playstyle.but its just a minute difference.

In a nutshell nox is still ideal for primary offensive skill for rogue and the poison effect help a lot.even the mobs use nox or any poisonous elements now.trap is less favourable due to the constant change in stance and mobs control which to me is seems close but in fact scattered.the pulling effect works but the impact is not maximized.

Did hauntlet runs for 30secs ap with falmear,tongamash and speedofsound at 1:29 which is barely.havent tested with tanks.and i used the above build to meet the 90secs requirement.you may try too (btw im on full myth so do not take my example as it is might need modification).

Creep runs.razor seems giving me lesser dmg output compared to before so i tried usong the above build n gave me better time.this is ofc running witg party.i still use razor for solo runs.

Thats basically what i can share now for pve.no secret recipe

As for pvp the additonal points i invested in crits and dmg with even distirbution.no major change for pvp i think this season as the 2 skills are highly favoured to max out this season.

Base points i couldnt go on full dex.i allocate 8 or 10 points to int for a roughhly 1.4k plus mana.tbh it does little impact on the overall mana consumption without a blind spamming of offensive moves.seems like the mana cost for skills are higher now and i can see the emptiness in mana bar too obvious now till i have to look more at mana than hp bar.thank god we cant use pots in pvp.this setting is giving me average effective skills usage outcome but bearable for now.i tried not to go hhigher than 15int as not to lose my dmg output to compete.

I havent and hopefully nvr try doing crits by maxing passive and ribbit buff combo.not that desperate for now (no pun intended).mali is still the best pet for rogues in pvp now and better level nexus to cap so u cn save time to replenish mana from its buff due to higher healing amount.i tried hazel its jst doesnt work.and slag stats doesnt help much to gain edge except its panic ability which is still good.not sure bout hj or glac seems i dont own em but i think no issue with those pets.

[Alrisaia]

I've also been experimenting - I'll share soon.

[Alfai]

Thanks al i gotta admit i suk at pve due to time investment,which explains my poor memory on specific map pulls and strategy.noisykillar is the one who refresh my memory for runs its that bad..hoping to read on your findings soon esp on shuyal from a depth pve perspective.as tbh i believe i havent really maximized the run approach and can be improvised still for enjoyable and faster runs at shuyal.good to know at least you are dedicated to do this for the community which we all can refer to.

[Azepeiete]

I'm gonna give razor another try this time around...I always drop it for trap/veil combo. I might also try the 6 skill build. Lots of stuff so little time.

[Veluthe]

Im gonna try nox again. Dropped. traps for it.

Also tried six skill build but didnt like. Its too much of waste imo cus you sacrifice passives. Not too mention i forget to change at boss. Maybe if we ever get more than 4 mapped skills itd be better.

Also gave razor another shot. The dodge is nice and 8s duration is quite long but it seems low damage as offensive. I can do without it.

[Azepeiete]

You should completely drop medic packs. They suck.

[Alfai]

Problen that i am experiencing with razor by far this season.
Its still reliable for a solo defense but the dmg outout seems weaker to compensate for the difference it makes for def.this is assuming it comes with all its upgrades.trap will always be my favourite compare to razor to maximize the dmg output from me and pt.except that its less effective for shuyal maps at the moment.the dmg taken from mobs is high and a maxed might made small diffrence to withstand the hits.i take it as an increase challenge at the expense of increased consumption where the consumption rates is tough to justify atm.still early to make a solid conclusion but so far its been ineffective investment of resources for the dmg dealt.and i dont do pve with medics as its a useless skill due to the healinf rate that cant keep up with hp losses and long cd.basically its a dead skill.and nothing good for rogue to benefit once in a critical moment to stay alive.
I would reconsider razor as i used it mostly for solo runs or creeps for def without losing my dmg output.at the moment its not favourable.


Rogue is experiencing a less impactful dmg output.this was felt mostly in couple of days.its a good bet that the mobs dmg didnt change but i failed to deal significanr amount of dmg (takes longer to kill) resulting to an obvious increase in potting activities.for shuyal either i was too laxy tappibg which i doubt i had tough time this week to survive even in a pt.maybe its just be but i am experiencing dmg reduction thats not massive but noticable in performance.and somehow those nights gave me a slightly better ping than usual.and the ping jumped high frezing my screen at arena.whatever getting used to it.

Back to the point.as much as achieving an overall balance for survivability has been my targer,the weekend has not been nice as my dmg output cant keep up with the dmg taken on regular mobs.i felt this even more when tried killing inan on shuyal elite.with ribbit crits and1 rogue setup it normally able to get me to kill inan bfore the enrage 60secs warning.and the last encounter left inan eith 25 to 15prcnt health thts basically a failure.im still trying to figure out what happened as im totally clueless.im eager to wait for the upcoming patch hoping that it was a bug or something that was not intended.

As much as def has always been a crucial matter for rogue survival it has to at least given me a good return on my dmg output.ill share more along the way bt evenmaxing dmg and crits passive at expense of def (i rely on pt buff pet and potting only) which has alwsys been my pve approach yielded negative returns to me by far.i hope someone does a favour to analyze it from the technical aspect just so to verify what went wrong.

[Alrisaia]

So,

Unfortunately my phone died this weekend and I was unable to do as much testing as I wanted… I did however run through a few scenarios with various builds and have concluded that for me, the following build remains the best.

AS 5/5
SV 4/5 (no explosion)
RS 4/5 (no bleed)
Traps 4/5 (no explosion)
SP 1/5
Nox 4/5 (no increased AOE)

Passives:
DMG 5/5
DEX 5/5
Might 3/5

Additionally, there is one strategy that I’d like to test that I was unable to… that being:
Ok, don’t kill me here… dropping AS for mob fights in Shuyal…
I’m always an outside of the box thinker, and I was considering this last night while wishing I could log in and farm the heck out of Shuyal…

So, here goes – here’s my theory and reasoning behind it:
I’m wondering if AS is still necessary for Trash Mob fights…
Tash MOB fights are about crowd control and DOT / AOE dmg.
AS is a single target skill, the only reason it was … necessary – is the crit stack.
I’m getting stunned so often that I’m losing my crit stack anyway.
Being that I’m a dagger rogue and I am in possession of a set of daggers that proc +50% crit i figured it was worth a shot.


So, here’s what I plan to test when I get my hardware working again:
Same blender strategy and build as above with the exception of adding the AOE to NOX and dropping one point from Might

Instead of using AS for the trashmobs, I’ll swap it out for NOX.
I plan to charge NOX with each hit, causing 6 targets to take the DOT poison damage.
One of the reasons Shuyal mobs are so hard is that they have high armor. Nox’s poison damage ignores armor.
I’ll still be seeing a lot of crits, since I have the right daggers, so RS and autoattack will still crit often.
Stunlock will be less effective on me since all of my skills will be DOT associated skills – meaning RS, Traps, and NOX are still damaging everything around me, additionally SV will help to offset the armor debuffs the doggies are stacking on myself and my tank.

The above strategy I would attempt with a 1 rogue, 2 mage, 1 warrior party and I believe it will be very effective, but time will tell.

My boss skillmap will remain the same – AS, SP, Nox, and either RS or SV depending on my group

[Alfai]

So,

Unfortunately my phone died this weekend and I was unable to do as much testing as I wanted… I did however run through a few scenarios with various builds and have concluded that for me, the following build remains the best.

AS 5/5
SV 4/5 (no explosion)
RS 4/5 (no bleed)
Traps 4/5 (no explosion)
SP 1/5
Nox 4/5 (no increased AOE)

Passives:
DMG 5/5
DEX 5/5
Might 3/5

Additionally, there is one strategy that I’d like to test that I was unable to… that being:
Ok, don’t kill me here… dropping AS for mob fights in Shuyal…
I’m always an outside of the box thinker, and I was considering this last night while wishing I could log in and farm the heck out of Shuyal…

So, here goes – here’s my theory and reasoning behind it:
I’m wondering if AS is still necessary for Trash Mob fights…
Tash MOB fights are about crowd control and DOT / AOE dmg.
AS is a single target skill, the only reason it was … necessary – is the crit stack.
I’m getting stunned so often that I’m losing my crit stack anyway.
Being that I’m a dagger rogue and I am in possession of a set of daggers that proc +50% crit i figured it was worth a shot.


So, here’s what I plan to test when I get my hardware working again:
Same blender strategy and build as above with the exception of adding the AOE to NOX and dropping one point from Might

Instead of using AS for the trashmobs, I’ll swap it out for NOX.
I plan to charge NOX with each hit, causing 6 targets to take the DOT poison damage.
One of the reasons Shuyal mobs are so hard is that they have high armor. Nox’s poison damage ignores armor.
I’ll still be seeing a lot of crits, since I have the right daggers, so RS and autoattack will still crit often.
Stunlock will be less effective on me since all of my skills will be DOT associated skills – meaning RS, Traps, and NOX are still damaging everything around me, additionally SV will help to offset the armor debuffs the doggies are stacking on myself and my tank.

The above strategy I would attempt with a 1 rogue, 2 mage, 1 warrior party and I believe it will be very effective, but time will tell.

My boss skillmap will remain the same – AS, SP, Nox, and either RS or SV depending on my group

Hmm havent tried tht al but might work to.i still use AS as tho w dagger u cn still bow em mobs.as the party attack is not static move like jagger.
My issue with trap only this season is the mobs pull.shuyal layout is wide and scattered.tho trap works well for mobs control it doesnt maxinive overall pt concentrated attacks to maximize dmg in mobs.even w slag buff due to the lethal necr attack i use bow and attack from outside of circle to tk less dmg (i aim nec first for mobs thren skeletons).

Just my humble opinion.

[bhutkeyur]

@alri
on shuyal thrash my only job in group is kill blue mages+big guy asap - thats y i cant dropped aimed
so i always say tank to stand over blue mage and tank them
we are lucky in shuyal we have only one range mob lol

[wvhills]

here's bes build:
aimed:5/5
nox: 5/5
veil: 4/5, no explosion
traps: 4/5, no explosion
dex, damage 5/5
str int 4/5

it surprises me that so many rogues favor sp over nox. Nox is essential in elites. It lasts for 8 seconds, does 75-100 damage a second and attacks up to 6 mobs. That's a ton of damage. Charge a veil as ur running into a group, tap traps, tap aimed, charge nox, tap aimed, charge nox, etc. By doing this u don't miss out on an aimed shot and ur dealing the most damage possible. Imo, razor sucks. traps does more damage than razor does.

[Zuzeq]

Over the weekend I added traps to my normal leet and tomb running build. When I created the NoxBox I have always ran smoke in place of traps. Over the weekend I learned if you run Smoke and Trap together you can complete the "Box" 10x easier w/o running the risk of taking any shots outside the smoke due to the "pull" perk of the Trap kepping the mobs tight. It was hard at first becuase I realized just how much I relied on SP's HP regen in elites. I began to drink pots waaay more than normal which threw my rhythm off at first. I also missed that three push punch at bosses (AS, Nox, SP), single target damage just doesn't get much better than that. On the the other hand while dealing with mobs you can't get better than that Trap, Smoke, Box combo. In the end I nerfed SP down to 1/5, shaved a lil off Knowledge and kept Traps. This allows me to keep SP for simgle target damage/tomb runs and Traps to couple with the Box for elite mobs.

[Alrisaia]

So -

While my experimental build actually worked quite well, it was very difficult to get used to. I’m just not accustomed to charging a skill during trash mob fights with the exception of smoke and I don’t even charge that ALWAYS...

That being said, the AS subbed out for Nox was just as effective as the blender with the exception of the fact that it took a great deal of ‘getting used to’ for me.

While being a ‘single target assassin’ is a good niche for a rogue, it’s just not my niche. I certainly prioritize targets (blue guys first) etc… but if you’re group understands how to relocate a group of mobs effectively, the goo and stun lock becomes a non-issue. At which point my blender build dispatches trash mobs still faster than anything else – while using Slag, Abbaddon, or Flapjack.

My build is currently the following and I find it quite comfortable and well versed for any PVE situation including boss fights and trash mob battles:

AS 5/5
Nox 5/5
SP 1/5
RS 4/5
Traps 4/5
SV 4/5

Passives:
DEX 5/5
DMG 5/5
Might 2/5

There you have it, my findings about Shuyal are in…
Shuyal TrashMob skillmap:
Nox
SV
RS
Traps
(As long as I have a mage in the party this is the right approach, additionally I use daggers during trash mob fights)

Boss fights (with the exception of the overgrowth):
AS
SP
RS (or SV)
Nox
(I typically stay out of melee range of bosses and choose to use the Bow)

[Azepeiete]

Hmm I find any point in razor besides increased duration to be a waste, the dodge is just meh(for lack of a better word) and the removal or movement impairing isn't any good either IMO.

I like to have aimed and nox always together and charging nox is just a no can do for me, and I still think its one of the most ineffective ways to use nox(yeah, I tried it again)

Losing aimed shot just blew my mind lol, I'd never even think about that one.

[Alfai]

Hmm I find any point in razor besides increased duration to be a waste, the dodge is just meh(for lack of a better word) and the removal or movement impairing isn't any good either IMO.

I like to have aimed and nox always together and charging nox is just a no can do for me, and I still think its one of the most ineffective ways to use nox(yeah, I tried it again)

Losing aimed shot just blew my mind lol, I'd never even think about that one.

Agreed.aimed and nox combo is crucial and always deadly.

For elite runs i agree trap and veil are highly favorable for mobs control.

But by far i havnt managed to maximize the trap benefit for a faster runs even survivability.simply because the pull perimeter which is a waste in shuyal environments.not other maps.cobsidering how annyg the mobs aggro.ive seen good tanks cant even survive a static attack that cn benefit from traps.veil on the ither hands is very useful.

Yes an ideal dmg and mobs control would exclude sp bt this is unlikely for shuyal imo.shdw priece can add survivbility for a rogue rather than just inflicting dmg.

[Alrisaia]

Hmm I find any point in razor besides increased duration to be a waste, the dodge is just meh(for lack of a better word) and the removal or movement impairing isn't any good either IMO.

I like to have aimed and nox always together and charging nox is just a no can do for me, and I still think its one of the most ineffective ways to use nox(yeah, I tried it again)

Losing aimed shot just blew my mind lol, I'd never even think about that one.

yeah i like to try things outside of the norm... hehe I'm not saying i preferred it over my blender... however I'll say two things:
a) my times were almost identical
b) with nox rs traps and veil i found that there was always some form of dmg output even through being stunned often

aze- i know your pulls are pretty wild but to be honest i find the extra 20%dodge from rs extremely useful. also not being slowed by the mobs I'm pulling to my group helps my survivability... in nordr and shuyal i prefer having both of those rs add ons.

[Azepeiete]

yeah i like to try things outside of the norm... hehe I'm not saying i preferred it over my blender... however I'll say two things:
a) my times were almost identical
b) with nox rs traps and veil i found that there was always some form of dmg output even through being stunned often

aze- i know your pulls are pretty wild but to be honest i find the extra 20%dodge from rs extremely useful. also not being slowed by the mobs I'm pulling to my group helps my survivability... in nordr and shuyal i prefer having both of those rs add ons.

You certainly are able to think outside the box lol. And I understand the 20% dodge I guess, but I never notice myself being slowed except on long runs in nordr. But hey, thanks for the input.