Samael vs the brothers whim

**Youngmurda** · 12-10-2013, 01:49 AM

This is a question what many people are asking. Which of the 2 pets is better.

So far imo based on my knowledge about whims abilities. I'm thinking samael for sure is worth your gold as an arcane pet.

Let's discuss this guys. What are your opinions ?

**falmear** · 12-10-2013, 03:07 AM

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

**Ravager** · 12-10-2013, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by falmear:1370448

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

Im still wondering if there is any hidden happiness bonus like the aura found on samael.

**iiirootzz** · 12-10-2013, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by falmear:1370448

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

So concise!! +1 sir

**Azepeiete** · 12-10-2013, 08:19 AM

Over 50% dodge with the brothers whim as a rogue! so I'd say they fare well in pvp for a rogue.

In pve, speaking on timed runs, the brothers whim are good in early maps where it's all about speed. Samaels crit and banish abilities will fair better in nordr/Shuyal where you kill in groups mostly

**Youngmurda** · 12-10-2013, 08:41 AM

I agree with pretty much everything you say besides this.

Originally Posted by falmear

Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

Remember this pet gives the lowest Health out of all the arcane pets. On top of this disadvantage it doesn't even have health regen! Health is important for rouges to avoid those quick deaths from other rouges. Also rouges have always been lacking in mana.. Guess what tho? This pet also has no mana regen either ! Samael easily wins in this category imo.

In pvp 15% movement for a rouge isn't much useful imo. Shadow pierce gives like a 100% movement burst ( heck maybe more its faast) Sure you lose a bit of mana but that's why samael is such a beauty for this. You get back the mana you've lost pretty quickly! Making you being able to get to a specified location very quickly without mana lost if your timing is right ofcourse you can't just spam pierce obviously. lets say its 15% movement vs samaels 100 health, mana and health regain. Which one would you prefer? This is a no brainer lol

Also the 10% dodge we can both agree on that its pretty much a waste of a stat. Yes I agree rouges don't need much crit in endgame due to already having high amounts of crit but heck I'd pick samaels 10% crit over 10% dodge ANYDAY!! who wouldent?

The only category I'd say where whim beats sam in is by its arcane ability and its 15% dmg compared to sams 10% dmg. Lets face it its not like 5% DMG is going to be a ridiculous noticeable difference or even make you super OP. What's the 5% dmg difference to you? Wouldent you rather have more health and health regen so you can live longer? Wouldent you rather have mana regen so you can atk more? heck maybe if it was %25 dmg then it could be better then those things lol

Now the arcane ability... I've heard it's basically a trap which sucks enemies in and has a chance to stun. We can all agree that this is better then sams arcane ability but its not like sams arcane ability is TONS worst. The only way this pet even has a chance of being better then Sam imo is if it has AMAZING RIDICULOUS passives which most likely wont be the case lol. Samael also has a passive stun ability and I haven't heard about whim having this ability yet but maybe it does. I'm not sure ( if it doesn't oh man oh man ) lol.

Me being a rouge, I'd conclude that samael is definitely the better pvp pet by a long shot imo. Im pretty sure any others who pvp as a rouge would agree also. I haven't compared whims pve aspect vs sams because even if whim is better in pve I doubt anyone's going to want to cough up around 40m to play pve lol. We all know the majority of the population love arcane pets for pvp rather then pve.

**Desperoto** · 12-10-2013, 08:53 AM

I will say the brothers for 1v1 fights against rogues or other mages. A mage have to deal as much as possible damage when his shield is launched before the stuns and invulnarty is over. U can us ethe 3 sec stun after the 2 seconds are gone and u can kill the rogue easy

**Ish Shakunt** · 12-10-2013, 09:03 AM

What about for warriors? Which is better? I like my samael but.. if brothers whim gets an passive stun.. samael may not stand a chance against it :/

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**Desperoto** · 12-10-2013, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Ish Shakunt

What about for warriors? Which is better? I like my samael but.. if brothers whim gets an passive stun.. samael may not stand a chance against it :/

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Samael is very hard for me..

**Zeus** · 12-10-2013, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Desperoto

I will say the brothers for 1v1 fights against rogues or other mages. A mage have to deal as much as possible damage when his shield is launched before the stuns and invulnarty is over. U can us ethe 3 sec stun after the 2 seconds are gone and u can kill the rogue easy

A mage's health is already so low with Samael that I can one combo it if shield is inactive. They're meant to be glass cannons, but now this would be pushing the survivability. Dropping a mage's health even more with The Brother's Whim isn't a good idea.

I honestly think that we can all agree many are happy Samael is still the best. However, I do think that happiness bonus should be reflected to be something more useful and arcane in quality.

**Saribeau** · 12-10-2013, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Youngmurda

I agree with pretty much everything you say besides this.

Remember this pet gives the lowest Health out of all the arcane pets. On top of this disadvantage it doesn't even have health regen! Health is important for rouges to avoid those quick deaths from other rouges. Also rouges have always been lacking in mana.. Guess what tho? This pet also has no mana regen either ! Samael easily wins in this category imo.

In pvp 15% movement for a rouge isn't much useful imo. Shadow pierce gives like a 100% movement burst ( heck maybe more its faast) Sure you lose a bit of mana but that's why samael is such a beauty for this. You get back the mana you've lost pretty quickly! Making you being able to get to a specified location very quickly without mana lost if your timing is right ofcourse you can't just spam pierce obviously. lets say its 15% movement vs samaels 100 health, mana and health regain. Which one would you prefer? This is a no brainer lol

Also the 10% dodge we can both agree on that its pretty much a waste of a stat. Yes I agree rouges don't need much crit in endgame due to already having high amounts of crit but heck I'd pick samaels 10% crit over 10% dodge ANYDAY!! who wouldent?

The only category I'd say where whim beats sam in is by its arcane ability and its 15% dmg compared to sams 10% dmg. Lets face it its not like 5% DMG is going to be a ridiculous noticeable difference or even make you super OP. What's the 5% dmg difference to you? Wouldent you rather have more health and health regen so you can live longer? Wouldent you rather have mana regen so you can atk more? heck maybe if it was %25 dmg then it could be better then those things lol

Now the arcane ability... I've heard it's basically a trap which sucks enemies in and has a chance to stun. We can all agree that this is better then sams arcane ability but its not like sams arcane ability is TONS worst. The only way this pet even has a chance of being better then Sam imo is if it has AMAZING RIDICULOUS passives which most likely wont be the case lol. Samael also has a passive stun ability and I haven't heard about whim having this ability yet but maybe it does. I'm not sure ( if it doesn't oh man oh man ) lol.

Me being a rouge, I'd conclude that samael is definitely the better pvp pet by a long shot imo. Im pretty sure any others who pvp as a rouge would agree also. I haven't compared whims pve aspect vs sams because even if whim is better in pve I doubt anyone's going to want to cough up around 40m to play pve lol. We all know the majority of the population love arcane pets for pvp rather then pve.

have u consider this is their idea of "buffing" mages? not end game mages twinks.so many twinks complain about how mages need buffing, they arent good without arcane, how warrs challenge them and they lose everytime.....well there it is. 2 +35 int pets. just my 2 cents

**Saribeau** · 12-10-2013, 10:20 AM

also, since i use the hardened upgrade on shield, and if the brothers become 10m, ill try my hardest to get one. ill be invincable for a few sec, so i can nuke a rogue and the use his AA to pull them away from pack and stun and they are dead.

Z · 12-10-2013, 02:07 PM

Im a little inexperienced with alot of this but in my opinion I see the differences of the 2 to be sam has 10 crit and 100 health, and whim bros have 5 more damage 15 speed and 10 dodge so I would have to say I feel bros have the edge.

**Youngmurda** · 12-10-2013, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by zhaucakieeIsDead

Im a little inexperienced with alot of this but in my opinion I see the differences of the 2 to be sam has 10 crit and 100 health, and whim bros have 5 more damage 15 speed and 10 dodge so I would have to say I feel bros have the edge.

Lol ... you must not pvp much

**csyui** · 12-10-2013, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Youngmurda

The only category I'd say where whim beats sam in is by its arcane ability and its 15% dmg compared to sams 10% dmg. Lets face it its not like 5% DMG is going to be a ridiculous noticeable difference or even make you super OP. What's the 5% dmg difference to you? Wouldent you rather have more health and health regen so you can live longer? Wouldent you rather have mana regen so you can atk more? heck maybe if it was %25 dmg then it could be better then those things lol

For a myth mage, he probably have over 600 dmg. 600*5%=30. Are you saying 30 more dmg is not big difference?

**Zeus** · 12-10-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by zhaucakieeIsDead

Im a little inexperienced with alot of this but in my opinion I see the differences of the 2 to be sam has 10 crit and 100 health, and whim bros have 5 more damage 15 speed and 10 dodge so I would have to say I feel bros have the edge.

You're also ignoring the insanely strong passive and passive healing ability of Sam, Zhau.

Trust me, this pet does not come close to any of the arcane pets.

**Youngmurda** · 12-10-2013, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by csyui

For a myth mage, he probably have over 600 dmg. 600*5%=30. Are you saying 30 more dmg is not big difference?

If you didn't read correctly. I was talking about for rouges because he stated basically that its better then Sam for rouges

**csyui** · 12-10-2013, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Youngmurda

If you didn't read correctly. I was talking about for rouges because he stated basically that its better then Sam for rouges

And I am talking about your statement that 5% dmg is not big difference. Tell me, 20-25 more dmg and 100 more health, which will you choose when your myth rogue has over 3k HP.

Same thing applies on rogue. More dmg a character has, more advantages percentage increase will give.

**Zeus** · 12-10-2013, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by csyui

Same thing applies on rogue. More dmg a character has, percentage increase give more advantage.

It's very bad for rogues, IMO.

You're sacrificing a lot of mana, a lot of health, and a lot of other very useful passives for theoretical max damage. Plus, the slight increase in damage is negated by Samael's armor ignoring passive attacks.

**csyui** · 12-10-2013, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Zeus

It's very bad for rogues, IMO.

You're sacrificing a lot of mana, a lot of health, and a lot of other very useful passives for theoretical max damage. Plus, the slight increase in damage is negated by Samael's armor ignoring passive attacks.

How much health? how much mana? Rogues fight won't last long, it's all about who gets crit shot first. You can't expect more health will give you more chance to survive in this case.