OFFICIAL Combat Re-Balance Feedback Thread

[Justg]

Wonderjuice, we have iterated on this exactly zero times. Give us a chance. Thanks for your relevant feedback and patience.

[Datecrepe]

Here, here (to Purrcey)

[relayer]

I haven't posted on the forums as of yet..but have done a lot of reading over the past few months. From what I am hearing it sounds like the high end game was nerfed a bit too much..but thought I would give my perspective as lower / mid level.

I have 3 characters.. level 43 dex bird, level 32 tank, and level 29 mage.

Last night I played the mage in The Lost Expedition… must say, that was the most fun I have had in the game in a long time. Had a pretty balanced pick up group of tank, 2 birds and 2 mages. We didn't just plow through the levels like before..the combat was slower but over all I think more fun & rewarding. It was a weird feeling at first with the weapon speeds. I had more time to debuff mobs, etc. The tank didn't seem to be taking a ton of damage, but I could heal a lot more often as needed. I didn't seem to need to spam pots much at all…a good thing imo.

Anyways, I just want to say that the game feels pretty balanced at the mid level. I think the high end game is where the issues are. Maybe adjusting the mobs, tweaking the gear a bit on the high end will help

[TheLaw]

Why dont you guys consider going back to the old usual game? Back when how it was like in Ao2, but ask for our suggestions and feedback for Ao3? *psss... if you guys are gonna do so, pls make sure armor prices dont get too high.*

[Derajdefyre]

I'm not sure, but I think I read a dev post at one point saying later bosses are immune to debuffs. If that is true, I think it is a bad design decision and totally contrary to the new desired "skill based" gameplay. If it is not true forget I mentioned it

I like the idea of the longer attack delays, but I think they are TOO long right now. I feel like I spend a lot of time standing doing nothing as a level 18 Ursan. I may feel differently if I spread out my skill points instead of focusing on getting skills to level 5.

I feel like using Crushing Blow on bosses is extremely helpful. It seems that if I spam it then the boss is significantly easier to kill. I maxed it out so it is a huge help. If I do not use it it seems that bosses do damage faster than I can push the potion button. I think that is appropriate. There are enough damage debuffing skills that I think it is fine for bosses to be super strong until you debuff them. That is the goal after all is to encourage skill based play!

Attributes seem to do very little. Maybe this is intended. I think that if people see how attributes are used more then maybe it would help. I see a lot of people complaining that stats are not important. If stat impact on skills was clear then that would be a move in the right direction.

[skimmey]

i dont know how the lvl 50s feel now but what was the highest dps ? iam lvl 31 now pre update i was like 25 and ok it slowed down a noticeable amoutn but iam slowly getting used to it now :P

[Frito]

Update totally sux mage is weaker then ever i cant play in ao3 without party wtf u made this changes !! change back please!

[Riccits]

why we dont make an official refendum? so we will c what players want. if they want game before update or after update..?

[derricks2]

Ok, I have been playing MMORPGs since Ultima Online in 97. Instead of ONLY saying "this patch stinks" I will give a few changes I may have tried before changing the entirety of the game. I had only discovered this game 3 days ago, but I was very excited about it. So if I miss a few points of emphasis, its because I havn't played long enough to know about them.

So your over all goal was balance PvP(people die to fast), improve skills(auto attack doing all the dmg), change stat % to allow for future updates(if people have 100% crit/hit/dodge now at lvl 50, whats left for lvl 99??)

PvP Balance Changes
-Increase player health/mana * 1.5
-Increase Mob Damage * 2
-Increase Armor damage reduction % * 2(so if 100 armor blocked 30% damage, make it block 60%)

Effect: Mobs will do the same damage to players, as MOB dmg is doubled, but so is the effectiveness of players armor. In PvP, players DPS has not increased(will probably decrease overall for the publish) so players will take 1/2 as much damage in PvP as they do now. Also, players will have 50% more HP/MANA so this will cause the fights to last longer also.


Skill Re-balance/Re-build for future
- Increase damage skills. Reduce cool downs, mana cost, increase damages

- Adjust base Health/Mana Regen times

- Adjust Passive Skills. C downut %% on some skills by 25% to 30% (ex: Bird focus to 32% from 50% crit/hit).

Effect: This Increases the use of skills to be more viable. Brings Passive skills down to make room for better items/Abilities in future levels.


Stats
-Rebalance stats. Cut effectiveness of how much crit, damage, doge etc... that stats give by 50%. Ex: Instead of 200 dex giving 30 crit, 30 hit, 30 dodge, 20 dex would instead give 15 of each.

Effect: Lowers over all %% of abilities to make room for better items and abilities in the future.

What this does overall:
This would not change PvE much. Mobs will become a bit more difficult due to the drops in crit/dodgle..etc. Mob damage to players ends up being the same. PvP damage is cut in 1/2 combined with more hp causes longer PvP fights. The stat/passive skill changes drops most players dodge/crit/hit..etc to allow for future updates to allow player growth.

I am sure that their would need to be tweaks and things added to account for what I am not thinking of, but this took like 5 mins to come up with and seems to address the issues you seem to have without changing every items stats, reducing the swing speed on weapons to super slow. Again I am sure if certain classes are a bit OP in certain situations.. you tweak that down on a "case by case" basis. Just a thought.

[skimmey]

Update totally sux mage is weaker then ever i cant play in ao3 without party wtf u made this changes !! change back please!

isnt the meaning of PvE to play in groups and not be able to solo maps ?? i dont know it was just my impression ^-^

[krazii]

Devs,

First of all, thank you very much for your continued efforts to improve the game and make it more fun. I’m not aware of any other rpgs where there is weekly updates and issues are addressed in a timely manner so kudos to you and keep it up. The game was fun before the update and is still fun after the update, particularly group play. I’m excited to hear that you’re making room for future expansion. Yea!

I have three level 50 characters (one of each type) and have played them all extensively using different setups, specs, etc. I also play with very good players who know their characters abilities, skills, strengths, and weaknesses, so I’m speaking from an experienced point of view for pve play. I have not played pvp that much. After playing all three characters for quite a bit of time (post combat re-balancing) in a good group here’s my observations and/or suggestions.

1. Trying to balance pvp versus pvp simultaneously is a very difficult thing to do. I think the players will eventually take care of the balancing themselves as that’s what situations with real people versus real people tend to do. Perhaps there’s a “modifier” you can put in pvp zones to balance character types instead of trying to balance them through stats. Just a thought.

2. The changes are great for group play. Groups can move fast through zones, especially if they utilize their skills. Mages are now vital to a group, birds the same, bears not so much (see below). Using skills to do more damage is a lot of fun.

3. The addition of more health and less armor is very good, let’s group survive more while having to utilize their skills to stay alive.

4. The adjustment of the mobs strength is good, they no longer one shot kill, but have strength and damage to take you out. I do think mini bosses need to be a little stronger to discourage mages from rushing to attack them.

5. The balancing of mana is good. Bears have enough to do what they need without spamming pots. Mages and Archers have enough to get their spells off also. Sometimes you have to use a pot here and there, but not continually. I think what everybody needs to consider is you have a choice of equipment to use increase your mana and health regen rates.

6. Bears – I think the pendulum has a bit to far for bears, especially in terms of dps. I most cases all the bear weapons have nearly tripled in delay time. Frankly this was disappointing. Every bear who played in our group did not enjoy this change and were frustrated (did not have fun). It seemed as if we could only get a swing or two in before the mob was dead (from others attacks) and we were left with the distinct impression that we weren’t doing any melee damage at all. Yes there is skill damage and that’s fun, but we like to swing weapons and do damage too. I think you went a little too far in this adjustment. Another comment was why have a tank if the group, birds and even mages can live without them. (need adjustment see below).

7. Mages – Kudos to you, mages are alive and well again, maybe a bit too much. The mage was so fun to play and felt so powerful. Our mages actually survived and did well, made group play so fun. Thanks for this adjustment. I think you should adjust them slightly (see below).

8. Archers – Archers pretty much stayed the same. Less DPS and more skill damage. Still fun to play. Only suggestion is you need to fix the blaster situation. A bow that you get from a mini-boss should not be more powerful than a blaster that you rarely get off the overlord. Some in our group did complain about mana, but I think it’s just a matter of what equipment you use which is a choice, we aren’t entitled to a full mana bar all the time.

9. Hybrids – I haven’t played hybrids that much, but those in our group didn’t seem very happy. That said, I think everybody has to realize that a hybrid should not be as powerful as a pure character. Hybrids are intended to be a mix of characters type and as such can’t expect to be as powerful as a pure character.

Specific recommendations:

1. Bears – Adjust weapon speeds to no more than 2.0 times the old rates (I’ll use sunblessed schmitar for example make it 1.4 instead of 2.0). Bears have to do melee damage along with crowd control and damage taking to feel effective. You could offset this by making skills recycle rate a bit longer than where they are now. I’d make this change only for str weapons.

2. Mages – Simply put, a bit too powerful. I think you need to adjust skill recycle rates and make them a little longer. Also, have to address the fact that mages can now rush into a group of bad guys and start blasting and live. I’d suggest reducing armor just a wee bit.

3. Archers – Very balanced, only thing needs fixing is the blaster situation. It was not fair to make the blaster less powerful then the bow. Especially when you consider the blaster is harder to obtain. I suggest you swap the weapon delay rates and make the blaster 1.7 and the bow 2.0.

4. Mini-bosses – make a bit stronger, not one shot kills, but they have to make players other then tanks think twice before rushing to attack, currently, mages and archers can just run in and blast away at them.
I hope this helps you in your efforts, great job, keep it up.

Thoughts Devs?

Thanks,

Krazii

[Datecrepe]

This is not a first person shooter. No class should solo current end-game content.

[FluffNStuff]

Right now the hammer has been over nerfed and has three strikes:
1) The Speed is 2.7 seconds making it a long delay.
2) The hit percentage has been nerfed so chances are it is going to miss 6 out of 10 shots.
3) Because it is a two hand, it reduces armor so it's tanking ability is low.

So my suggestion is to consider fixing one of these:
1) Increase Speed (Not likely, as the theme here is slower).
2) Increase Hit percentage by having Strength give some, or even add some to the hammer.
3) Add armor to the hammer, or perhaps ... make it one hand like the hammer in the video.

While these are just my suggestions, I do ask that in your next tests you try using the hammer and decide for yourselves if it needs some love. It served you well in the Video, so it might be time to return the favor.

[Torrentula81]

This is not a first person shooter. No class should solo current end-game content.

Alot of us like to solo and do groups. Before the update I could solo effectively except for some ranged bosses. I'm 43 bird. Now I get killed with 2 or more regular ranged mobs. I'm spamming health pots in these spots wasting hard earned gold. Since the update I like doing groups more then before. God thing or else I'd be out of luck. I think 50% population in mmo's do things solo. Not everything has to be group relience to play the game. To each his own.

Scale the maps to increase or decrease difficulty based on number if player at that moment. Givves soloists a chance and groupies.

[Lesrider]

Another concern of mine. If you're goin so far as to make equipment almost useless compared to skills, what's goin to get people to continue playing past the level cap? Gold won't serve any purpose, and there won't be any point to farming a certain piece of equipment. And before anyone says "the game is about more than gold" or "it's about the challenge, not the loot," or some such similar remarks, ask yourself this: if the Overlord dropped nothing, would you still bother fighting him once you've done it and can't get any benefits from it besides the "challenge?"

[Datecrepe]

The key to my statement is "current end-game content." Solo'n trash mobs for exp is not what I was talking about. Being able to solo AO3 bosses, as some have been able to do, should not be a part of this MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online RPG).

[Duke]

Question re: Drain Life mage skill. I'm not seeing any appreciable gain in HP after using this. Has the skill been rebalanced around the higher HP totals? (Or maybe I'm just missing every time I use it?)

[MoarPewPew]

Also I wanted to say That any class that does is not dex is now a problem.

The hit% of str and int builds is very low with the balance.
Also the weapon speed makes us attack less so if we miss it's a lot of damage we loose out of.

[TwinkTastical]

well, im lvling up all my twinks, the PvP at under level 50 doesnt work, they decided to base the "balance" off of lvl 50... nerfing everything furry =/

[FluffNStuff]

Question re: Drain Life mage skill. I'm not seeing any appreciable gain in HP after using this. Has the skill been rebalanced around the higher HP totals? (Or maybe I'm just missing every time I use it?)

Probably needs to be tweaked along with the healing of a mage. Perhaps the next iteration?