Thats not a bad idea at all... Maybe 1h weapons this time? With gem shields, bracers and wings...Originally Posted by Roberto077
Thats not a bad idea at all... Maybe 1h weapons this time? With gem shields, bracers and wings...
Beware of the Tinfoil - it's coming...
This is where I always get hung up on your strategy at STS. You feel like you have to keep building new games because that's what the public demands. This has been stated over and over, along with the claim that without AL the company would have failed. People seem to just agree because someone from STS said it, but I say it's far from an established fact. I say this because I can give you one humongous counter-example: WoW.
World of Warcraft has been chugging along for 10 years. It is the undisputed leader of its category. It has a community of 10s of millions, and somehow it has managed to grow and advance its position without once creating a "new game". They've expanded, revamped, brought in many new changes, etc. The game today is very different from where it started out. But at no point did they close down the old game and make a new one. They never left their established community behind and forced them to start over on "WoW 2". But that's what you guys have done over and over, as you've attempted to meet this supposed "demand for something new".
What you could have done instead is carried the community forward. If AL had been a major revamp of PL, which in many ways it was, but one that the community could follow along in, it would have been an entirely different situation. Instead of choosing between investing time in your loyal PL community OR the new people in AL, you could have had both. The heartache for those playing PL, DL, SL etc is that you guys walked away, leaving a loyal player base stranded but unwilling to allow their investment to end. And it is an investment: people love these games because of what they put into it, so they don't want to have to walk away from that.
I know you guys have your strategy, and no amount of forum posts is going to change that. But I can't just let you get away with saying "we have to put out new things or we'll die". It's clearly the strategy you've chosen to take, but it's also just as clearly not the only strategy there is, even though you keep claiming so. And all I have to do is point to WoW to prove that it is possible to advance, grow, bring in new customer and not abandon the old ones in the process. Just because you chose a different path doesn't mean the other one doesn't exist.
#63
I appreciate your speculations on what you think our business direction should be, but it really does not hold water with reality.
WoW was (and still is) an anomaly, but more than that it is a PC subscription-based game. The mobile market is vastly different and rapidly evolving every day. And video games are a notoriously difficult business in general.
I think we've done pretty good in this environment.
So we'll do our best to run a good business and provide you with more free games. We'll also try to support our older games as much as we can.
It didn't take patience. I actually rushed through it not having much time before I had to leave for school and it took only like 3 minutes. If I wanted to I could've typed more than a page long and maybe 4 but then no one would even read that haha.Thanks, I don't have the patience to type like you did, remind me to thank your post when I have one
Programmed-Level 85 mage, Praktica-Level 85 rhino
Pl is still best of all but some nice maps and elite items,vanities and contests that are held by sts would be awesome for PL. In my opinion , just an opinion , instead of making new games there you should focus more on the old games however i know how hard your job is (some say its not) i dont have a right to speak against what you do (did). So at all , at least dont forget the PL players pls.
I appreciate your job and looking forward to see more stuff in PL. Ty and good luck
Thank you fusionstrike
Edit: I would pay a subscription fee if it went to development of pl, I feel my plat purchases should have done that instead of funding your next big game that I don't want to play
Last edited by Oldcoot; 01-09-2014 at 03:34 PM.
I think that sts could at least update PL's graphics and quality of game to match newer technology and standards, but STS was the company that started, designed, and dreamed up the game we love, and who better than STS could further that. Imagine the work that went into PL, STS's first mmo, and the pride they hold in its success. How is it fair that we are suddenly asking them to give up Pl to another developer.
Although on the other hand PL is losing some of its valued players and that is partially due to lack of attention
#68
We did that - it's called Arcane Legends
Yeah, maybe we should get on a Google Hangout or Skype call someday, it would be great to chat. Sorry to keep bringing things back to Arcane Legends, but as a reminder the vast majority of our current daily players are playing that or one of our new Battle Games. So we are continuing to service our customers as best we can. Also, we do continue to do regular events in Pocket (and Star and Dark). We do what we can.
This is all incredibly insightful feedback - thank you Sam and Gary.
Going back to what Fusion said, I think, and I'm saying this out of my heart because of the kind of people you are and not from a PL stand point, that your company should challenge yourself to make AL that one immense game similar to WoW. I'm only saying this because you guys have probably the best community I've ever seen in an MMO and that's something you should be proud of - you provide entertainment and a sense of community for literally thousands of people each day. Truly, it's an incredible thing.
It would be cool to see you guys take this "moment" with AL and try to make it that big game. Because pretty soon game ideas start to run out, then you could potentially lose your core community base - Ah, I'm having trouble conveying these words similar to OldCoot. As a founder of PL, the dedication you put into your community is astounding. I wish you could have seen the community you formed just 2 years back during the 56 cap, I made so many "friends" in a game that I'd never thought I'd ever be hooked on. Not only was the game the best of the best, but I could enjoy with an awesome group of guys. That was my description of a perfect MMORPG which unfortunately faded away.
I'll always have my passion for Pocket Legends so I apologize for the occasional posts of me ranting - I mean c'mon, that's just a natural feeling for any customer. But you guys are doing a great job giving your perspective and as you continue doing this for us, you'll maintain a stable community. So another word of advice: Don't let your community down in AL. Don't make them feel like they have wasted their time. Keep in touch with them as you are, and AL can have that potential to be the one MMO. Learn from PL because I'd hate seeing you guys as a company steer in the wrong direction. Fusionstrike said it already, the strategy that you guys have taken has many potential risks.
IF I were to give the company one challenge, it would be to create a game/MMORPG that would be the one game that allows you guys to sit back, relax, and watch the revenue come in and allow to expand on other things. I feel it's time we've stopped sorrowing over "PL's demise". But hey, Thomas Jefferson once said, "I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past."
Last edited by XghostzX; 01-09-2014 at 05:13 PM.
First, I'd like to commend you and the rest of the dev team for your level of engagement with the community. Although it has dropped off for PL from what it used to be, you've in general remained more responsive than you had to and have been willing to level with us, even when the truth has been painful. I consider your continued willingness to engage with the communities of all your games a definite strength of STS. It's clearly something you care about since you're willing to have tough discussions about uncomfortable topics. Kudos to STS for sticking with this value even when things get rocky.
As to your specific response, I completely agree that the gaming industry is particularly competitive and tricky to navigate. Technology in general and gaming in particular change very quickly, so you're always having to adjust to find the way forward. And mobile gaming like what you're doing is a much younger field, making it that much harder to keep your footing.
However, you dismiss (without proof) my viewpoint as not holding water. To my specific example of WoW, you dismiss it (again without proof) as an anomaly. All I can say is, of course it's an anomaly. Any best-in-class company or product is by definition an anomaly, because it's having far more success than any of the competition. No other company or product has been able to replicate or threaten it (yet). That's what an anomaly is. This does not in any way invalidate it as an example of what is possible in its industry. Had you pointed out some specific, special condition that catapulted WoW to its current position but that the competition is unable to replicate, then it would be fair to argue against it as a valid comparison.
It's true that WoW operates on a PC, which has specific challenges of its own, and that mobile presents its own challenges not faced on a PC. However, there are quite a lot of similarities in how all MMOs (and games in general for that matter) operate, which makes it still a fair example. WoW has faced, for example, a continuously-changing hardware environment, competitors eagerly trying to be better and steal their customers away, the need to keep up with technology changes to remain relevant, continuously trying to remain attractive to new customers while keeping the old ones happy and engaged, adding new and fresh spins to a game with a lot of history both in the community and a codebase that gets harder to maintain with age, and numerous other, similar challenges of games in general and MMOs in particular.
Somehow, WoW managed to come through all this not only intact, but wildly successful. It is the undisputed leader in its field. There must have been many times along the way that it would have been easier if they had just started over with "WoW 2.0", closing down the old game and building a new one from scratch incorporating all the lessons learned along the way. But they didn't do that. And it is my assertion that maintaining continuity of community is the biggest factor in its undeniable success. That all its customers continue to benefit from a continually supported and expanded game experience is an advantage that's hard to overstate.
And let's not forget that WoW wasn't just selling into an established market either. It had to innovate to become what it is today, introducing the MMO genre to a far wider consumer base than had ever existed before. Although other MMOs had come before it, WoW revolutionized the space with what it did. In that way, it's very similar to what STS has done in mobile. You guys have these other MMO examples to draw from, but no established path for success in mobile gaming. You had to take that on, and have been very successful at it. Even now, few mobile MMOs compete with the engagement and depth of STS titles. STS certainly deserves credit for what it's done for mobile gaming, and it's been a hard trail to blaze.
I don't ascribe any malice to the decisions of how STS has navigated its path forward. You've made choices along the way, ones that you certainly felt were in the best interest of the company's progression. And it has required doing so with imperfect information and the need to react to a fast-changing environment. Certainly it has been a difficult road to travel. I just can't see how there was literally no other way forward than to move away from an established and successful game, given how damaging it is to break customer continuity, especially in MMOs. One of the consequences of that choice is vocal customer dissatisfaction, which we've seen plenty of, and that's just the cost of doing business this way. It must be frustrating to have made this choice "for our own good", since you've stated repeatedly that the company could not have survived otherwise, and still hear negative comments from the community, which inevitably must seem incredibly ungrateful. Maybe there's something you could say that shows why this strategy was the only viable one. I'm listening and willing to change my mind when presented with contrary evidence. But so far I have seen none, and as a result I just can't get myself to agree that this was the only way forward. It's a shame, because I wish I could come around and be wholly supportive of a company that's done so much I've appreciated over the years.
#71
Edit, I'd like to apologize for the tone of my earlier response. This is such a tough issue for us I get defensive sometimes. PL has our hearts and souls in in. But there are undeniable (to us) business reasons that have led us to continue to expand our focus. So discussions about how we could do better with it are painful to me. We all want to do more for PL.
I promise you this: We will always look for ways to support our older games, and we will always try to infuse in to our new ones the same spirit that spawned PL.
Last edited by Justg; 01-09-2014 at 10:31 PM. Reason: A bit of clarity
I think if they make an expansion and update. The players will increase in pl. In my opinion, the reason why veteran players and others left PL and joined AL bec of lack of updates.
Thank you for that promise G an that will keep me playing an waiting
Thank you for that promise.
Judgementals, Retired Officer of Rated M.
Al is just a beautiful game admit it guys, go play it >.< btw wow fusion you can write some paragraphs >.<
AL: Jiig PL: Jig 80
Veni Vidi Vici
Worst thing I could be, is the same as everyone
Thanks for re-opening the thread, and again I would like to thank you and Sam for your quick and very explanatory posts here. I don't agree about everything with you as can be expected, I am sure you guys are very tight budgetted for time especially.
Not gonna argue the points now; would simply waste more time.
Thanks again for the great thread and feedback!
Al is apparently a pay-to-win. And I will be waiting on the promise! If it ever comes.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
An you simply just earned my respect. Ill wait any length of time bro, thanks for that promise.
I also apologize for the way i reacted to you last night. But i have put 1000+ dollars into PL on different accounts., an watched it drop as so many other people have, i have understand where you were getting at, haha, but for a grand, an knowing PL is slowly declining, you guys could always give me a maxed character on AL, that maybe id give AL another run haha.
Well I have played this game for a real real long time, i started playing a few months after it started, but now i just log in every few days because theres nothing new happening. A few days after blacksmoke came out i grinded from level 1 to 76 within 10days. i played a lot each day and I spent quiet some money on the Game. But now after a LOONG time of no-new updates, renaming old stuff and repeating events that noone really cares about, for example this winter fest in Pl i dont really think that there was something to spent any plat on especially not on runs since the reward was worth like 5k gold in the end. But i also dont think that selling Pl is an option. 1. It would be hard to sell it as sam said 2. as many mentioned we dont know if the company that buys it would do more than stg does by just letting Pl kill himself and try to dry out the last money that the customers are willing to spent. Thats just my opinion tho.
Characters:
Deadfarmers Level 76 Mage Deadsoldiers Level 36 Bear Deadfighters Level 15 Twink Deadmerchant Level 33 Merchant
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