Dryselvage Said:
"so are bird still worth to play in endgame pvp?
consider there are op behr, pally savage mage that dominate endgame pvp,
are birds still able to compete with those op classes? like 1vs1?
and what is the best bird build to compete with those? full dex? or what?
gimme ur opinion.."
Arcanus Said:
"It makes your loyal customers feel like, "Wow, the games that got them here are not loved by ST'G'.""
Rot Said:
"The problem is, no matter what we suggest, they hardly even bother with it. Yes, they might be reading this, but I seriously doubt that any actions will be taken.
Their attitude to PL players : If you don't like the game, quit playing it and get a life.
Their attitude to AL players : Hi sir, how can I help you? Oh, thanks for reminding us, it'll be fixed in 2 days. Remember to buy more plat!"
WhoIsThis said:
"Balance wise, it would not be. Str bears would destroy int mages and dex birds." in reply to Xyzther's statement: "I think it would be cool to make an endgame tourney in a 5v5 ctf one of each class, can only use class specific armor"
WhoIsThis also said:
"Essentially, we have created an environment where well, skill is no longer relevant. Knowing when to hit the right skill is no longer an issue (assuming an elixir free environment; with elixirs, there's no point in skill as well because each toon is super-buffed). Instead it's all about the random number generator and whether each shot is a hit or a miss."
Bless said:
"Mages are weak bears are overpowered and birds are forgotten about."
OneLeft said:
"Bears have too much hit and damage, it is unfair. On top of that talon birds have too much dodge and armor for the damage output they deliver!"
Utaca said:
"Pocket Legends used to be a game that was fun, balanced and took skill. Now it is about the class that you pick. Once they took the skill out, they took the fun out."
Iamtla said:
"People do more damage in one skill than they have health."
Crash said:
"Sets are op, period."
AngelDawn said:
"I would like to see STS follow through on the balance of PVP that they originally started."
Shiloo Said:
"The nerf to crit was a great start. Now let's fix the rest!!!!!!"
OneScaryMage said:
"Practically, mages and birds need an increase bears need a decrease!"
Flacs said:
"I also want to share some experience by playing at this cap. Recently me and Apollo practiced 1Vs1 - bear fights. Bear fights about who dodging Heallscream and Crippling slash.
Bird fights purely about dodge, any burd who using elite phoenix set is more tanky than a bear, sometimes makes impossible to kill a bird with other classes. I just every day see dodge-streaks, like 15-20 skills dodged.
Bears cant really kill birds if they hit blinding shot, only unless blinding shot is dodged. That also makes almost impossible to defeat any phoenix set bird with a savage bear.
Mages are completely fail as int, they get killed by one or two hits by a bird, also cant kill any savage bear, cuz bears damage is also so op.
This cap everyone is pro because of all these insane dodges and luck."
It is very obvious that everyone who participates in any sort of player vs. player activity in pocket legends that there is indeed a lot of imbalanced features. I will be breaking down this thread in a couple sections. The first section will consist of, "What needs to be changed". In this section I will talk about the many things that causes a throw off of unbalanced classes in pocket legends. I will also be breaking each class individually into five sections starting with birds. A great way to get another understanding of this problem is to check out WhoIsThis' thread. It has everything in it that I will be addressing as well as adding to what he said. (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...-class-balance)
What needs to be corrected!
I will be breaking this section down into what things need to be fixed in pocket legends. This section will included sets, skills, and possibly more.
First thing on the agenda is hit percentage. To fix this we MUST look at everything that is effected by it and fix the overall hit. There is no need for any class to have their hit over 100%. Let's break down some numbers here.
Example 1: A 76 bird uses blind shot against a mage who has 153 hit %. If the debuff hits their hit goes down to 93%. In conclusion, 93% of the mages shot will land. There is virtually almost no point in having a debuff skill like this if it does nothing.
Example 2: A 76 bird with level 8 blindshot hits another bird with 185 hit % and their hit % goes down to 125%. Like the mage this does nothing to the bird.
This examples can go on for every other class. Sets should not make your base hit go higher than 100%. Total conclusion is that base hit% should NOT go over 100%. Ever.
Like we know, with every action there is a reaction. While hit is decreased, debuffs need to go under the same construction. If sts fixed hit%, we cannot have a blind shot doing -60% hit decrease when a class is at 100% hit. It would make for long fights and disadvantages to who hits the debuff first.
The next thing that should be looked at when correcting the pvp imbalances is dodge. At this point the dodge for most characters is completely out of hand. A bear with a savage set at level 76 in capture the flag has the capability to walk across the entire map to return the flag with three other players attacking the bear. How does this happen? Well, that answer is simple a 3 piece bear with an egg has 85 dodge when fully buffed. Now, this value is hard to understand. It is not labeled as a percentage. I am assuming it is out of 100 and for arguments sake I will treat this variable as a percentage. This being said, a bear has an 85% chance to dodge each skill you press. This dodge is not only unfair, it requires no skill. ALL luck based! The same thing applies with pallys at endgame. There dodge from the savage set is all ridiculous and makes them the second best class to play in pvp for endgame.
Another key thing to look at is increasing health. Later on I will be adding some suggestions. Hopefully with the help of the community feedback.
Now that we have the top things that are wrong with pvp lets take a look at the three sets at endgame.
First set up is savage.
Savage Dragon Master Armor
Stats: 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 22 Damage, 90 Armor
Savage Dragon Master Helmet
Stats: 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 22 Damage, 67 Armor
Savage Dragon Master Scythe
Stats: 234-254 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 19 Armor
Savage Dragon Master Buckler
Stats: 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 22 Damage, 79 Armor
This set gives a total of 413 dps for a buffed pally with this set equipped. Now think about this number. This means every skill that is pressed by the pally will hit anywhere between 100's- upper 300's when armor is calculated in. The same thing goes for bears. Their damage output against a bird for slashes hit in the upper 200's. Not to mention that their beckon stomp is an instakill for anything that is pure dex. Overall, the damage for savage sets is extremely overpowered.
The next set up is the swift set:
Swift Dragon Master Armor
Stats: 42 Dex, 12% Hit, 9% Crit, 4 H/s, 3 Mana, 5 M/s, 28 Damage, 81 Armor
Swift Dragon Master Helmet
Stats: 42 Dex, 12% Hit, 9% Crit, 4 H/s, 3 Mana, 5 M/s, 28 Damage, 60 Armor
Bow of the Phoenix
Stats: 263-303 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 42 Dex, 1% Dodge, 9% Hit, 12% Crit, 5 H/s, 2 Mana, 5 M/s, 32 Armor
As WhoIsThis stated in his thread the main problem with this set can be improved by doing the following: "I propose giving the dex set some dodge. Say, 3% worth of dodge per piece of crafted 75 gear and bumping up the dodge on the Bow of the Phoenix to 5%. This is a net increase of 10% dodge."
This proposal is a perfect way to get birds back into the fight and not be at the low end of the stick.
Next set is the fiery set:
Fiery Dragon Master Armor
Stats: 42 Int, 6% Hit, 12% Crit, 5 H/s, 6 Mana, 6 M/s, 27 Damage, 83 Armor
Fiery Dragon Master Helmet
Stats: 42 Int, 6% Hit, 12% Crit, 5 H/s, 6 Mana, 6 M/s, 27 Damage, 48 Armor
Fiery Dragon Master Scepter
Stats: 162-192 Damage, 1.0 Speed, 42 Int, 6% Hit, 12% Crit, 5 H/s, 6 Mana, 6 M/s, 11 Armor
Fiery Dragon Master Eye
Stats: 42 Int, 6% Hit, 12% Crit, 5 H/s, 6 Mana, 6 M/s, 27 Damage, 71 Armor
In my opinion there are three things that need to be done to fix the int mage set. First thing is to increase the armor. Without a m/s an int mage is helpless. There is nothing they can do besides hopefully hitting fire and getting a lucky dodge in. They need the extra armor on this set for a fair surviving ratio. The next thing they need is more crit. My suggestion is to slightly raise the crit 3-8% more. Lastly, int mages need more dodge to their set. Since mages have no dodge buff, a few more dodge will not only be fair, but is what needs to be done when competing against the other op classes in pvp.
At this moment in time in my honest opinion, birds are where they should be. Birds have the capability to kill each class and other classes can kill them. The only problem is the high damage. This is particularity evident at 66+. Bird vs. bird becomes a luck battle where whoever dodges blast first wins. The only way to fix this problem would be by reducing damage on sets. However, by doing this it brings up the question of Pve. In my opinion, this would be good for pve too. Believe it or not, there was a time when there were no such thing as elixirs and it actually took team work to defeat levels (this is when i had the most fun farming). A 76 bird with elite swift set plus 3 piece ring has a total of 551 DPS. What this translates to is one skill plus an auto shot from the bow to kill another bird (an example would be blast shot + auto). One thing that should be changed about bird is their hit. They have a total of 210% with talon set, which is kind of ridiculous.
There is an easy solution to this problem. STS can make two different sets for each pve and pvp. For pve they can keep all the stats of the current sets as they are. This means they have to do absolutely nothing. That means for the savage set, swift set, and the fiery set can all remain the same. If a player has the pve version of the set equipped they will not be able to enter the arena or ctf areas. Now many people are probably thinking now, WOW if this happens I would have to buy two sets, i aint dat rich imxoriginal!!! Here's what else sts can incorporate. As everyone also knows sts made dragon sets craftable into rings which turns into vanities after you craft them. Sts can incorporate a new npc in balefort castle, lets name him Greed for right now. Player A has a swift master dragon helm elite bow swift master dragon armor in his inventory and is interested in pvp. He goes to the npc named greed and talks to him. The following conversation will occur: "Welcome!!! Here's the deal- I can help you craft your endgame set into a pvp killing machine! These variations are not tradeable. Once you craft this set you will receive the pvp version!" Once you craft the set you will be given your set back along with the pvp version. Unlike the dragon rings these will not become vanities. They will remain pinks in your regular inventory. You would have two sets. The first set would be labeled for pve( PVE-SWIFT DRAGON MASTER HELM, ETC) the second set would be labeled (PVP-SWIFT DRAGON MASTER HELM, ETC). You would still be able to trade the pve version of the set for multiple character convince, but you would not be able to use the pvp version if the pve set is not in your inv.
Now this would be a long process of coding every set for the npc. What sts could do would be a set a week till they get it all done. Please let me know what you think of the above mentioned idea and what else I can add to this system. We are onto the next class. The bear.
Currently, bears are the most overpowered class in pocket legends pvp. Let's take a look at the endgame savage set that bears currently use.
Savage Dragon Master Armor
Stats: 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 22 Damage, 90 Armor
Savage Dragon Master Helmet
Stats: 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 22 Damage, 67 Armor
Savage Dragon Master Scythe
Stats: 234-254 Damage, 0.9 Speed, 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 19 Armor
Savage Dragon Master Buckler
Stats: 42 Str, 7% Dodge, 5% Crit, 9 Health, 6 H/s, 5 M/s, 22 Damage, 79 Armor
With their high damage and crazy dodge it makes them almost unstoppable. To keep this short and sweet a great way to fix this is to do the following:
Nerf their damage
Reduce their dodge
Increase their hit
This, along with the idea mentioned earlier might be a way to fix some of the unbalanced features of this game. Another way to go about this is to fix the skill points. There is no need to have 9 skill points. Just make the max 6!!!! By reducing damage taken it calculates to prolonged fights which = more fun plus more skill.
If this is your class I am sorry to say but if you are at endgame and you're an int mage, you're pretty much toast against pallys, bears, and some birds. Good way to fix is to do a couple things:
increase armor of the fiery set
decrease mana shield cool down slightly
increase crit slightly
If you have any experience at endgame you highly ever see pallys. Now that we mentioned pallys let us talk about the problems with them. Pallys strength and overpowered capabilities comes from the savage set. It is nothing wrong with the mage class itself that makes them overpowered. The problem is the high damage output of savage plus the high dodge. The only way to properly fix this problem is if the dev took into account making major changes to the sets and possibly making pvp and pve sets with a new crafting system. Now that we have properly addressed the problems of mages, let us take a look at a newly developed class, the fox.
It is hard for me to tell if this class is underpowered. Currently at endgame, foxes easily take down anything that is mostly dex in a couple hits. But, they are basically helpless in killing anything else.. Especially strength classes. Currently will be adding more details and statistics tomorrow about this. Feel free to post or pm suggestions.
Next class is the Rhino:
Tanks... What I have noticed with rhinos is that there damage is too low. The reason they are able to take out dex and int mages easily is because of the high damage of savage. I propose the damage of rhinos to be increased and their health increased slightly. Again, I do not have a lot of experience with rhinos and would appreciate if people could propose more suggestions to help balance this class.
The following is an awesome suggestion from Shadowstar:
"Rhinos, I have already said some on this matter, but I'll explain a bit further.
1. Why can't they beat str chars?
Well they can't, they don't have reliable debuffs. And I do know they dont kill, but at least make them be able to kill something other than dex chars and int mages. They can't beat savage chars because their dodge debuff totally sucks, -18 dodge lvl 9 Summon is a fail debuff. So if you want to beat other str chars, it should be something like -dmg or something. Or even boost the dodge debuff itself and make it way more higher. Or possible armor debuff, although in the current situation, armor barely counts anymore.
The holy tempest, which is a dmg skill and debuff, doesn't even debuff -hit much, rather, its chance to do it at a certain %. Needs to be higher % and higher -hit.
2. Boost base health to 500.
Yeah yeah, I'm crazy. Putting rhinos health to 500. But if you think about it, a char thats supposed to be str based has lower health than a dex and int based char is weird. Wat. In return for boosting health, the armor buffs could go down a bit.
3. More dodge.
Wow, did I just say that? Yep I did. Brute force needs to have more dodge, since its only thing it can be used for (other than 5 armor..pfff) its 10 dodge at lvl 9. WAT. Guardian doesn't need more dodge, IMO a skill that acts as a second heal and gives you armor is awesome. But if Brute force gave more dodge, wouldn't rhino be OP with savage? Hm, ANOTHER reason to Nerf savages dodge."
OVERCAP!
If you took the time to read this it will become clear to you that pvp is severely broken in pocket legends. Hopefully, with the feedback from the community on this thread I will be able to change some things around to make everything fair and equal. This thread is NOT intended to become a flame war. Everyone who posts on here should post constructive feedback to changes, suggestions, or their overall opinion on this thread.
As well as the community responding positively, I would also request that the developers also respond in a constructive way. I am and along with many other are very interested in hearing good news that they will do something about this. I do NOT WANT this thread to turn out to this one...http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...t-Nerf-of-2013 along with this one http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...Fixin%92-in-PL
Do not get me wrong, I greatly appreciate justg trying to balance out things, especially with how busy they are. But they abandoned the balacing and left pl pvp still in terrible condition. The time is now to act. Help us restore pl pvp back to where we all know and love it.
NOW along with other things mentioned, I do also know that this thread was mostly focused on endgame pvp. I am well aware of problems at twinking levels. I will hopefully be able to address this in a future thread.
I would also like to give special thanks to Angeldawn, shiloo, cheen, iamtla, and many others for helping with questions I had, plus making their own suggestions.
Time For A New Era---Help in the quest to restore PVP
Originally Posted by VVake
(ignore my forum date it's a sec acc) downloaded the game while drunk almost 4 years ago upcoming in April and haven't regretted it yet! Maybe lol. It's just a shame to see such a fun game becoming ruined over imbalance.
AL: Jiig PL: Jig 80
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