Why we didn't make a new expansion for Pocket Legends in 2013

[Chopper]

Thank you for the response. I think a lot of the bad feelings came with the impression of being felt 'left out in the dark' or abandoned. Addressing it openly is much appreciated so that people can make their own minds up if they want to continue playing PL or move onto other games out there.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Actually if 3 piece rings were done like storm suggested I wouldn't be totally against it. As long as the vanities aren't brought back and it takes the extra grinding.

[Fusionstrike]

P.S. I'm saying this because since 76 might be the last cap, their are others who started the game late, they should also have the chance of getting an elite ring. That said, I'm not saying this for myself, I already have elite rings and black dragon sets.

Well, there will always be someone who missed their chance because they started when the "last" cap has already been released. The only way nobody is ever left out is if there are an infinite number of cap updates. This is why people have suggested alternate ways to get rings other than by stringing two or three caps together.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I think games should be "fair" in that there is always a level playing field, i.e. anyone can earn equivalent abilities/bonuses/etc whether they were here on day 1 or just joined yesterday. This is why the whole founders thing continues to kick up so much dust even today. Right now, some players have a built-in bonus (however small) that others have no way to match. They find this unfair.

On the other hand, I would hate to see those who put in the work to get the 2 or 3 caps have their efforts watered down by an alternate, "cheaper" way for players to catch up who missed previous caps. If nothing else, waiting for the cap to come out was part of the challenge, in addition to completing the cap before the opportunity was gone (back when caps came out relatively quickly). This was the only truly long-term goal in PL, which had extra meaning because of the time constraints players had to deal with to successfully cap on back-to-back-to-back caps.

I guess if it were up to me, given the current state of PL, I'd decide in favor of giving the new players a chance to catch up. I would do this by going back to each cap level and offering a way to earn that cap by earning the 100k xp via a special quest. Something like, you talk to Fallen Prince, you get a quest that requires earning 100k xp in that campaign's map. Completion awards the cap item, but recolored in some way to look different from the original. The item still operates as a cap item for the purposes of getting rings, but players can visually tell the difference between those who capped originally and those who did the catch-up path. This allows "first-cappers" to maintain their badge of achievement while offering new-comers a chance to do the same work and get access to the bonuses if they're willing to put in the effort.

Back on topic - What I'm worried about is IF Arcane Legends dies off at some point (which shouldn't, at least in the next few years), then 10X the customers will start complaining about their update-less game. I mean c'mon, I bet the entire community on the AL forums constantly expect a good 1-2 updates a week. I expect a decent update every 4-6 months! Imagine the customer hate that could happen. Just a friendly heads up!

This is the point I worry about for STS's long-term future. I know there are players out there who feel PL has ended too soon (I'm one of them) and were caught off-guard to learn the lifespan was so short. I think most people familiar with MMOs make an implicit assumption that they'll get to enjoy the game, community, etc for a long while, and 3 years is just a lot shorter than they expected. This tends to make them feel that their investment didn't get a chance to pay off, and certainly makes them think twice about doing it all over again on a new game. I'm not a player of SL or DL, but I imagine there are those who feel similarly about the even shorter life these games have had.

It is a legitimate question for AL players to ask how long they should expect the new game to go on given the history of other legend games. They would be fully justified in being skeptical at this point. I know I have friends who would really enjoy PL, and I'd have a blast playing it with them, but I can't recommend it to them given the state of things now. And I can't jump into AL with them knowing I'm skeptical about its lifespan, and I certainly don't want to personally repeat the cycle of feeling cut short in yet another time and money investment.

Clearly there are plenty of people willing to play AL who don't have this hang-up. Either they don't mind moving on from other legend titles or AL is their first experience with legends games. However, as XghostzX rightly points out, the much bigger audience means a much larger potentially negative backlash if it experiences the same arc as the other legends games have. At some point, the market will run out of new players who haven't felt burned by this strategy if it continues.

Maybe AL will turn out to be so successful that STS will support it for a long enough time not to repeat the cycle we've seen on PL/SL/DL. It would be great if STS finds the right game they will stick with and the community gets the full experience of a game where they can build something and enjoy it for a long time. But I notice that Samhayne again mentioned making new and exciting things, which I read as an intention to pop out more games that must be tended to by the same staff. If that's the case, then AL too will eventually become a losing value proposition compared to the other new games that come along, and the unfortunately-familiar legends cycle will consume even this currently high-flying title. I hope this is not the case for the sake of those as invested in AL and we PL die-hards are.

[Gluedog]

Thanks Sam! Keep making awesome games

[Suentous PO]

Well said Fusion. I too lean toward letting the new players a chance at rings as that means my foxes and rhinos can too, but a quest wouldn't cut it for me. I think it should be as hard for them as it was for me. New folks having to grind could mean more money for STG as they buy plats to do so.
I also would rather the old vanities for older caps not be re-released.

Also agree that I'm unwilling to put in time and effort into any other of their games when the same problem exists that STG could move on to the next game.
History repeats itself.

[Fusionstrike]

Well said Fusion. I too lean toward letting the new players a chance at rings as that means my foxes and rhinos can too, but a quest wouldn't cut it for me. I think it should be as hard for them as it was for me. New folks having to grind could mean more money for STG as they buy plats to do so.
I also would rather the old vanities for older caps not be re-released.

I agree with both your points, but maybe I didn't express my proposed solution very well. My idea of a "quest" is basically an avenue for players to go earn the 100k xp that is traditionally associated with a cap. So it would be exactly the same amount of work as was originally required. (In fact, you could argue it's actually more work if they are required to do it in the campaign's map, since they couldn't use the "mega maze with xp anywhere" trick.) I also mentioned that any vanity from this make-up route look different so there's no confusion between the two different ways of earning it. Although the real goal here is for them to catch up in ring advantage, so just getting access to earning the ring (and no vanity) would be sufficient. I'm thinking the current system requires some kind of object on the player to work, which is why I suggested the recolored idea.

[Xyzther]

Maybe there could be a quest to kill 100k mobs of that campaign for the recolored cap item, that way it would be harder since you're not farming xp but kills

[Freobr]

Yes long quests as I mentioned before!!!

[Skillless]

Thanks a lot for this thread! I don't think that you can find something like that in other gaming communities.

While many agree that giving new players 3-piece-rings and nerfing some sets are the solutions to make PL attractive again, I don't think PL can recover if the focus is only the needs of endgame pvp. I suspect that a large part of PL population (by count and by revenue) used to be rather pve'ers. I think there need to be incentives for those to come back or stay.
But anyway, I believe that is no need for a new cap or expansion. I think much could be improved with less costly means, by implementing new quests and achievements rather than a whole campaign.

[Multibird]

I don't think PL can recover if the focus is only the needs of endgame pvp. I suspect that a large part of PL population (by count and by revenue) used to be rather pve'ers. I think there need to be incentives for those to come back or stay.

Agreed, but now if you look some people that only used to pve also started to pvp. Since not many people farm.

[Isopure]

I spy with my little eye....... A lot of dairy air kissing. Just saying

Even with your lengthy and very sophisticated response I believe there could be changes made to pl that would make everyone happy. Company and player supporters a like working together for a "cheap" solution which seems to be your major reason for not giving pl any decent updates. There are always things that can be done to please your customers. Baring you can't please everyone all the time but how about just giving a little something to all those who supported and helped build your company from the very start? Just keeping it real guys

[The Happiness]

I'm just popping out of (semi) retirement to say thank you Sam for your honest, transparent post and for taking the time to explain and clarify the "mystery" of PL's future. It is clear that you care very much about the game and the community and I can imagine it has been as hard for you as it was for us when the company shifted direction away from PL.

I would like to say that prior to PL, over 3 years ago, I had no experience of mmorpgs. Virtually no gaming experience whatsoever. But, this community has been fantastic. I have met some truly wonderful people here both in game and on the forum. Warm, genuine people who will remain friends with or without PL. I feel truly honoured to have been a part of this. The last three years have given me memories I'll cherish for the rest of my life. Thank you Sam and all at STG, you created a gem of a game. Hope you are as proud of your achievement as I have been to be a member of the PL community. Good luck for the future.

Taara/The Happiness

[Heroelite]

Maybe there could be a quest to kill 100k mobs of that campaign for the recolored cap item, that way it would be harder since you're not farming xp but kills

This would take atleast 10-20+ times longer than 100k xp and imo that is too unreasonable. Players wouldn't have the benefit of xp elixirs and PVE would be in an even worse state than it is today. Strength classes like bears and rhinos would be put at a significant disadvantage in getting kills, and will most likely switch to dex to rack up kills as fast as they can. I prefer the 100k xp of that campaign idea.

[IGN Storm]

This would take atleast 10-20+ times longer than 100k xp and imo that is too unreasonable. Players wouldn't have the benefit of xp elixirs and PVE would be in an even worse state than it is today. Strength classes like bears and rhinos would be put at a significant disadvantage in getting kills, and will most likely switch to dex to rack up kills as fast as they can. I prefer the 100k xp of that campaign idea.

This. 100k kills of the campaign is already many times harder than before considering that even on x4, the mobs would take 3-5 hits compared to 1 hitting everything in Mega Maze. Kills are also harder to get considering there is no kill multiplying elixirs. One change I think is fair is that when your teammate kills someone, you also get credit for the quest, just like any other npc killing quest. This way support and tank classes wont be at a severe disadvantage

[Reunegade]

How about this: you have to clear any BSM map 76 times with a group w/o elixirs to get an elite shard? You need 5 elite shards to get a Blacksmoke Ring of Valiant Glory which adds 100 health, 100 mana, 10% hit, 10% crit, 10 armor, and 10 damage.

[IGN Storm]

How about this: you have to clear any BSM map 76 times with a group w/o elixirs to get an elite shard? You need 5 elite shards to get a Blacksmoke Ring of Valiant Glory which adds 100 health, 100 mana, 10% hit, 10% crit, 10 armor, and 10 damage.

Combineable with Dragon Rings and/or Elite rings?

[Roberto077]

Maybe there could be a quest to kill 100k mobs of that campaign for the recolored cap item, that way it would be harder since you're not farming xp but kills

Should they make these count towards the 214 (current) quests or be achievements worth LP or AP, whatever it is in this game.

[Roberto077]

This would take atleast 10-20+ times longer than 100k xp and imo that is too unreasonable. Players wouldn't have the benefit of xp elixirs and PVE would be in an even worse state than it is today. Strength classes like bears and rhinos would be put at a significant disadvantage in getting kills, and will most likely switch to dex to rack up kills as fast as they can. I prefer the 100k xp of that campaign idea.

I think that kills are fair. If you're revisiting a map then you are mist likely going to plow straight through everything making it as if you had elixirs. The only outlier is BSM, which wouldn't even need the 100k kills quest since the eye of eternity is available.

You can also work on the quests as you are leveling through the zone, so xp elixirs aren't too bad.

[Elitephonix]

Ok, so let me sum up this whole thread up for you.

Make a update that'll keep us busy. That's all that everyone's asking for.

[Xyzther]

This would take atleast 10-20+ times longer than 100k xp and imo that is too unreasonable. Players wouldn't have the benefit of xp elixirs and PVE would be in an even worse state than it is today. Strength classes like bears and rhinos would be put at a significant disadvantage in getting kills, and will most likely switch to dex to rack up kills as fast as they can. I prefer the 100k xp of that campaign idea.

What I meant to say was defeat them, you do not need to be the one who does the kill