Players using more than 4 skills - Developers Please Read! :)

[Energizeric]

As is being discussed in another thread, many players who play on a PC are able to use keystroke routines to switch out skills during a PvP battle, therefore allowing them to avoid cooldown periods and use 5 or 6 skills instead of 4.

Clearly the game was not intended to be played this way. But you cannot make it so skills cannot be switched out as many players often do this in between battles -- I have often done this in between battles to get ready for the next battle.

So here is my proposed solution: When a new skill is mapped to one of your 4 buttons, there should be a 5 second delay before that skill can be used. This will allow us to retain the ability to change skills in between battles, but would put you at a disadvantage to try to do this during a battle.

Keep in mind this game is called a "Mobile MMORPG" indicating it was primarily meant to be played on a portable device. This exploit of being able to use keystroke routines gives a huge advantage to PC players, and needs to be eliminated if this game is to be considered primarily a mobile game.

Please don't use this thread to debate the subject as there is plenty of debate going on in the other thread. But please thank this thread if you agree. A show of hands for the developers is what we need here.

[falmear]

I don't agree and I'll give you an example. If I am doing 1v1 in TDM there is no rules like in CTF. If I kill a rogue they will run back as fast as they can to kill me before I'm healed or my shield cool down finishes. So when I do 1v1 with a rogue I run 3 attack skills with no heal. When the fight is over I swap heal in to recover health for the next fight and then swap back my attack skill. This way when they charge back I am ready and fully healed, if I have to wait 5 seconds then I'll be dead. So I don't agree with any changes being made unless we see some changes made to mages damage, skills and armor.

[Solid]

+1

Maybe the skill on CD shouldn't be able to be swapped out.

I will thank u in 25 hrs.

[Madnex]

Using hotkeys/keystroke routines is, in fact, unfair for everyone.

But using 5 or 6 skills without automated means is a whole different thing. With the human reaction times and error possibility factors, I'd say it's a fair bet to use or not to use. This is the sole reason I consider it a skill.

I'm not opposing this idea, yet I believe it would block a path used by a portion of capable sorcs to balance their currently disadvantaged position in the class triangle. I also recognize how this workaround is harder to achieve for the phone users that play the same class, but I don't believe the suggested fix to be a long-term satisfying solution.

[Solid]

Using hotkeys/keystroke routines is, in fact, unfair for everyone.

But using 5 or 6 skills without automated means is a whole different thing. With the human reaction times and error possibility factors, I'd say it's a fair bet to use or not to use. This is the sole reason I consider it a skill.

I'm not opposing this idea, yet I believe it would block a path used by a portion of capable sorcs to balance their currently disadvantaged position in the class triangle. I also recognize how this workaround is harder to achieve for the phone users that play the same class, but I don't believe the suggested fix to be a long-term satisfying solution.

Why are there only 4 skill slots......

[Alfai]

Counter strike debate

"Bind v b3, ;.. etc etc"

[Madnex]

It's more like a list:


-The game was made out to be simple, easy to pick up and user friendly. More than 5 skill buttons would cancel that concept.

-Where the 4-skill-slot change button used to be in other Legends games, the arcane pet button appeared.

-Passives were made to avoid the lack of more active skills, as there would be no room to place them.

-There really is no room for another button, no matter how you look at it, without making the screen look like a parade.

-Especially since this was made out to be played on handheld devices too, clogging up the screen is exactly what they were trying to avoid. Thus the completely hideable chat and quest/alert access.

-Finally, a large part of the early game customers was bound to come over from previous Legends games. They couldn't alter something as fundamental as skill slots layout without avoiding confusion/dislikes.

[Milan Lame Man]

So I don't agree with any changes being made unless we see some changes made to mages damage, skills and armor.

Well I see your point, but really, this is a fair solution to skill and pet spamming:
After a skill or pet is swapped in, it is put on its cooldown.

Swapping shield or heal would not be very funny but it's the only fair way to solve it that I can see.
If it would mean no more sorcerers in PvP... then leave it "unsolved".

[Solid]

It's more like a list:


-The game was made out to be simple, easy to pick up and user friendly. More than 5 skill buttons would cancel that concept.

-Where the 4-skill-slot change button used to be in other Legends games, the arcane pet button appeared.

-Passives were made to avoid the lack of more active skills, as there would be no room to place them.

-There really is no room for another button, no matter how you look at it, without making the screen look like a parade.

-Especially since this was made out to be played on handheld devices too, clogging up the screen is exactly what they were trying to avoid. Thus the completely hideable chat and quest/alert access.

-Finally, a large part of the early game customers was bound to come over from previous Legends games. They couldn't alter something as fundamental as skill slots layout without avoiding confusion/dislikes.

STS's first hit PL had 12 skills and it was fine, nothing hard to understand.

4 skills were implemented as check and balance system so not one class could claim superiority.

There are many ways they could've added more skill slots, such as SL's style (SL was a fail) or PL's style. There is nothing confusing except as in why you don't understand there are only 4 skill slots.

[Madnex]

I'm turning this into a debate, apologies ener.

STS's first hit PL had 12 skills and it was fine, nothing hard to understand.

Yeah PL was the first hit but PL was also the first game, meaning they experimented on it and the following two games before releasing AL. Weird thing is, they went with 4 skills for all the following games. Hmm, why would that be.

4 skills were implemented as check and balance system so not one class could claim superiority.

Honestly, keeping the game simple and the screen clean sound like more probable reasons.

Besides, there's no way adding another skill slot or two could make things fair or not; the balance you speak of was implemented on dividing our eight skills to four attacking/four defensive ones --respectively on each class. An extra skill slot would just give variety to skill builds.

If you think the above point is incorrect, then the issue you need to make so many posts about is cross class skill comparison and balance. Not screen skill slot layout.

There are many ways they could've added more skill slots, such as SL's style (SL was a fail) or PL's style. There is nothing confusing except as in why you don't understand there are only 4 skill slots.

Repetition of your first argument's point. They sticked with the 4 skill layout for a reason. Called ergonomics. Doesn't mean the game doesn't get more interesting and competitive through having the skill to play with more, without automated help.

[Solid]

I'm turning this into a debate, apologies ener.


Yeah PL was the first hit but PL was also the first game, meaning they experimented on it and the following two games before releasing AL. Weird thing is, they went with 4 skills for all the following games. Hmm, why would that be.



Honestly, keeping the game simple and the screen clean sound like more probable reasons.

Besides, there's no way adding another skill slot or two could make things fair or not; the balance you speak of was implemented on dividing our eight skills to four attacking/four defensive ones --respectively on each class. An extra skill slot would just give variety to skill builds.

If you think the above point is incorrect, then the issue you need to make so many posts about is cross class skill comparison and balance. Not screen skill slot layout.


Repetition of your first argument's point. They sticked with the 4 skill layout for a reason. Called ergonomics. Doesn't mean the game doesn't get more interesting and competitive through having the skill to play with more, without automated help.

Ugh nope. each of the games have many aspects that determine the amount of skill slots, such as DMG, health, etc. SL has 8 slots not 4.

I never suggested adding more skill slots, evidently I'm against it.

Did you even read Ener's thread? Ener and I want a way to control the use of skills, either in adding a cool down or making skills on CD not "swappable".

[Madnex]

SL has 8 slots not 4.

SL has no passives nor complicated stacking buffs/debuffs. Although if you ever played it, you'd notice that using 9th skill for the weaker class(operative) is completely normal and acceptable. And this is with 8 skills, not 4, so imagine how much more the weaker class needs it with half the skill slots.


About the game becoming more challenging and interesting, of course you disagree since your class is better skill-equipped by default. The only sorcerers you'll find agreeing with you are the ones who --for various reasons-- can't use more than 4 skills, therefore they think of it as unfair gameplay. If the 5th and 6th skill was used only against rogues and not fellow sorcs, I can bet you their position on this would be entirely different.

[Energizeric]

1) There was a HUGE problem with PL -- everyone had the same exact build, so life got really boring and most of us quit. What makes AL interesting is the variety of builds.

2) It's nice that you consider using keystroke routines to be cheating, but players doing it legitimately to be ok. Problem is there is no way the app can possibly know if a keystroke routine is being used. PCs can multitask, and one program has no idea what the other one is doing. So for this reason, we cannot have this feature or else it will surely be abused.

3) Now I know why certain players are so much better than everyone else. Sorry to say, but I can tell when players are using these routines. Everything they do is just a little too perfect. It's the same exact movements every single time. Well, that is fine I suppose as there is nothing that can be done about it. But they should at least be forced to use the same number of skills as those of us who actually play on a mobile device.

4) If as you say (and I agree) that there are balance issues between the classes, then you are making it impossible for these issues to ever be addressed since as a mage you are dominating other players using these tricks. STS has access to statistics, and surely they can see number of kills each class has at end game.,

[Instanthumor]

What about the players that switch skills without the use of keystoke routines, or 'hotkeys', as they call it. IMO, there is nothing wrong with switching skills during fights (the extra 60-70% hp helps), as long as you do not use hotkeys, which are considered cheating.

[Venom]

Have any of you actually tried swapping skills? Say I just used my Juggernaut and now it is in cooldown, i swap to VB and use it. When i switch back to Juggernaut, I can not use it until the cooldown is complete. So no, the cooldown period can not be avoided. STS devs are smart. They just can't find enough space for 5th skill on HUD.. *Hopes for a new transparent HUD with more mappable skills*

[Madnex]

1) There was a HUGE problem with PL -- everyone had the same exact build, so life got really boring and most of us quit. What makes AL interesting is the variety of builds.

Agreed. Still doesn't make the use of 5th skill illegit.

2) It's nice that you consider using keystroke routines to be cheating, but players doing it legitimately to be ok. Problem is there is no way the app can possibly know if a keystroke routine is being used. PCs can multitask, and one program has no idea what the other one is doing. So for this reason, we cannot have this feature or else it will surely be abused.

I'm quite positive that a very small percentage of the decent PvP sorcs has the means, the knowledge or the patience to prepare this. The perfection you speak of comes after thousands of repeats and errors don't disappear just get smaller in number. I've found myself accidentally taking another skill off while switching. That's instant loss.

3) Now I know why certain players are so much better than everyone else. Sorry to say, but I can tell when players are using these routines. Everything they do is just a little too perfect. It's the same exact movements every single time. Well, that is fine I suppose as there is nothing that can be done about it. But they should at least be forced to use the same number of skills as those of us who actually play on a mobile device.

Again, not many can use such form of cheating. I wouldn't mob together every good PvP sorc that knows what he's doing. I'm not even sure when and where hotkeys and macros were brought up; takes one to know one type of thing. Was it ctf? That would explain some things.

4) If as you say (and I agree) that there are balance issues between the classes, then you are making it impossible for these issues to ever be addressed since as a mage you are dominating other players using these tricks. STS has access to statistics, and surely they can see number of kills each class has at end game.

Agreed but to a certain extent. We're not dominating, we're barely surviving. And most of the times 5 skills are not enough to wear down a full mythic rogue with arcane pet. Even harder with warrior.

And I doubt any reliable feedback can come off those statistics considering how everyone on LB as well as a large part of the player base is self farming or buying kills in a regular basis.

Have any of you actually tried swapping skills? Say I just used my Juggernaut and now it is in cooldown, i swap to VB and use it. When i switch back to Juggernaut, I can not use it until the cooldown is complete. So no, the cooldown period can not be avoided. STS devs are smart. They just can't find enough space for 5th skill on HUD.. *Hopes for a new transparent HUD with more mappable skills*

It's not possible to completely escape the reload timers. But for skills that can only be used once and then require long reload [15 secs for example], switching to them, using and switching back after fight makes all 5 skills available without the reload issue you mentioned. You just need to know what to swap and when.

[Venom]

^ Exactly my point. Its just a waste of our couple of seconds coz STS hasn't added a 5th slot yet. So yes, its not illegal or exploit or an abuse if you use 5+ skills. They are available to you so you can use them. Keeps a variety in game, else everyone would just have one typical build right?

[Rare]

Seriously, in all my days, I haven't seen whinier people than pvpers. No offense.

[Solid]

Have any of you actually tried swapping skills? Say I just used my Juggernaut and now it is in cooldown, i swap to VB and use it. When i switch back to Juggernaut, I can not use it until the cooldown is complete. So no, the cooldown period can not be avoided. STS devs are smart. They just can't find enough space for 5th skill on HUD.. *Hopes for a new transparent HUD with more mappable skills*

It works out perfectly for tanks, use jugg swap it out with vb, use VB twice, then swap back to jugg.

And yes I tried it, I felt cheap.

[Madnex]

Seriously, in all my days, I haven't seen whinier people than pvpers. No offense.

Tis true lol.