what really irritates about merchers

[ruizerwin]

Happen many times...

[Ventus]

Merchanting is a bad business if you're greedy, it'll eat away at your reputation as you get richer (greedier). But among some bad apples, there are those reputed merchants who try not to rip people off immensely. Maybe it's because it's nearly expansion time? I remember last season was similar, the market went haywire and merchants dominated the market because mythics were being upgraded.

Also is anybody else aware that mythics and arcanes are mostly ONLY being circulated amongst merchants - that's why prices fluctuate I guess. A week ago I could buy whim at 15m but now it's atleast a mil or two higher.

This is sadly true.. Due to the guys in every pier. every travelors. constantly typing buying all mythics/arcane eggs. some new guy could end up looting a egg or a mythic out of his first locked and falls into this trap because the guy he said he'd sell to offered him a horrible offer. Only for him to sell it. Im aware that itll be his fault for not looking at places but come on. What if he tried searching the auction and the samael egg he just looted wasnt in the auction. And captain reseller decides to offer 10m and the kid thinks omg im rich. and then the reseller turns and sells for 10m+ profit. :S I feel bad for things like that that happen but we can't do much about it..

Luckily for anyone who isn't new and uses the forums. Its quite easy to spot a reseller.

[Anarchist]

Its impossible to know the real value as it stands now. There are over 100k players in AL I'm sure. In a given day, how many can you talk to? How many have legit knowledge? How many of those are merchants? And of those merchants how many can you trust?

Come on, don't be naive. Its a very legit concern. To say it doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense.

IMHO i don't think it makes sense.

The Cs is a helping tool made for selling things it's secondary purpose though seems to be that of showing the average price of every item.


But if the item you are selling cost too much to be listed or it so rare nobody can actually determinate it's price what do you do?

You start a thread saying people are trying to steal from you cause they are low balling?

Lmao!
First of all it is a free world and i can offer 1 gold for your jester vanity it is you as the seller that has to say NO.

Secondly this is how the game of merching runs, if there is a possibility of buying something low and reselling it higher which mercher wouldn't do it? It is practically the base of merch everyone has been prophesizing since day 1.



To those regreting they sold their jester vanities for lower price than its actual value, to those complaining about merchers low balling for their jesters i say:


"GET BETTER MERCHING TECHNIQUES AND STOP COMPLAINING"

[dwellzz]

You keep saying this bolded area as a defense, but I am not doing this either. So, who are you trying to prove this to...yourself? Anyways, this argument is going to go nowhere so I suggest we just be mature about it and drop it as we have a difference in thoughts.

I've stated why you made the thread, you've attempted to disprove it. In my view, I'm looking at the facts and information provided and there can only be one reason why you made the thread. Heck, you even stated that your offer is what set you off towards creating this thread. Again, this is just my opinion though.

I hope you're less angry later on...

Cheers!

Again you are wrong.
You stated why i made this and i have stated why i made this. How can you tell me why i made this? Ignorance is bliss

If you read that area u bolded i didnt say thats what you do neither so again you just feel targeted like how you brung my vanity up you felt targeted

And how say this thread isnt going no where i already said
"devs close this"

This is what i mean by your high horse
You keep going because you feel as your opion is greater then others and you demand recognition nd want last say altho you are wrong.

You try to tell me why i made this so you can be correct but no...you are wrong.

Devs close :P

[Rare]

Human greed, hello?

No one's going to be a good Samaritan when he can profit at the cost of just some petty acting or little trickery.
There are no morals in the world of business (yes, it's spelled business); as long as the risk is at moderate levels, it will be done.

In conclusion:

I disagree. Many of us play this game for fun. I'm not interested in cheating people. However, I do want to make gold for one reason or another. But I'd never go so far as to cheat someone. But, I wouldn't really consider myself a merchant (at least not a good one)

[Rare]

IMHO i don't think it makes sense.

The Cs is a helping tool made for selling things it's secondary purpose though seems to be that of showing the average price of every item.


But if the item you are selling cost too much to be listed or it so rare nobody can actually determinate it's price what do you do?

You start a thread saying people are trying to steal from you cause they are low balling?

Lmao!
First of all it is a free world and i can offer 1 gold for your jester vanity it is you as the seller that has to say NO.

Secondly this is how the game of merching runs, if there is a possibility of buying something low and reselling it higher which mercher wouldn't do it? It is practically the base of merch everyone has been prophesizing since day 1.



To those regreting they sold their jester vanities for lower price than its actual value, to those complaining about merchers low balling for their jesters i say:


"GET BETTER MERCHING TECHNIQUES AND STOP COMPLAINING"

I can understand if you said you don't agree with it. No problem. But to say "it doesn't make sense"... that's a you problem. Not a me problem. It makes perfect sense if you look outside your bubble.

You can feel free to offer whatever you want for anything. it doesn't change the fact that it remains impossible to determine anything's value (well, lets say rare, "high" value items). And why there are such huge swings in values of things. Just look at the traders market. Look at the delta in prices for (buying or selling) jester vanities. One person selling for 20m+... another for 16m... another wants to trade for singe. Why? because nobody has any idea about the real value.

I say, allow the market determine the value. Not 10 or 20 people in arlor. Cap the listing fees in CS and let people list them without fear of losing a large chunks of gold. If someone lists too high, nobody will buy it. What's the difference? CS is transparent. EVERYONE can see it. Not a little black market that operates from the shadows where most people don't really know whats going on.

[Anarchist]

I can understand if you said you don't agree with it. No problem. But to say "it doesn't make sense"... that's a you problem. Not a me problem. It makes perfect sense if you look outside your bubble.

You can feel free to offer whatever you want for anything. it doesn't change the fact that it remains impossible to determine anything's value (well, lets say rare, "high" value items). And why there are such huge swings in values of things. Just look at the traders market. Look at the delta in prices for (buying or selling) jester vanities. One person selling for 20m+... another for 16m... another wants to trade for singe. Why? because nobody has any idea about the real value.

I say, allow the market determine the value. Not 10 or 20 people in arlor. Cap the listing fees in CS and let people list them without fear of losing a large chunks of gold. If someone lists too high, nobody will buy it. What's the difference? CS is transparent. EVERYONE can see it. Not a little black market that operates from the shadows where most people don't really know whats going on.

I see where you are going but i am sorry to tell you this...
I think enough have already been done for the jester winners giving them just the chance to win.


Changing the whole system for just 1 item makes no sense to me.
If you want to list your jester pay the fee or sell it outside the cs taking the risk.

When value swings is the time the true skills of a seller emerge.

Get better skills, do a lot of research and you will sell your jesters for a good price trust me.


Anyway it is normal that new and rare items valie swings all this talk is for nothing.

[falmear]

[Rare]

I see where you are going but i am sorry to tell you this...
I think enough have already been done for the jester winners giving them just the chance to win.


Changing the whole system for just 1 item makes no sense to me.
If you want to list your jester pay the fee or sell it outside the cs taking the risk.

When value swings is the time the true skills of a seller emerge.

Get better skills, do a lot of research and you will sell your jesters for a good price trust me.


Anyway it is normal that new and rare items valie swings all this talk is for nothing.

I think there was a misunderstand about what I was saying. Let me clarify. I AM NOT selling my Jester vanity and I'm not interested in prices. None of this discussion has anything to do with it. I was merely using it as an example of a high priced item who's value fluctuates daily.

Its a greater problem with any item of value high enough that people can't (or won't) list in CS because of the high listing price. My example earlier of the Tarlok. Its in CS for 1.75m. What should I list it at? I am trying to sell in town for even 1.4 and a person scoffs at me. Should I spend the 100k and list it? I don't know. I have no idea if that person was right or if CS is more acurate. Because there is only one listed.

This is just an example. Not asking advice or anything like that. Just to illustrate my point. If the listing price was lower, many more people would list their items with the potential loss being much lower. In the end, the market will dictate when the item hits the sweet spot. Rather than speculation.

[Fauksuras]

I understand the purpose of the fee as it helps avoid ridiculous prices and undercutting by constant relisting but what bothers me the most is tje concept of paying a fee whether it sells or not.

In my opinion it should be: Item sells? You get sale gold and lose deposit/fee

Item doesn't sell? You get item back to relist and the fee/deposit

You want to cancel sale? You can cancel but lose fee/deposit

That way people won't be scared of losing money (because let's be honest I usually don't mind the fee as much as losing it because somebody undercut me or simply not lucky those 3 days), there will be a gold sink on actual sales and constant relisting is still controlled.


Win/win/win

About marchers everyone is trying to make a buck. Some use less than ethical means, those are in my ignore list sinply. With that said there are many fair merchers.
If you're really interested in names I'm sure you can find some in game.

Theres a particular one im yet to find somebody who likes him or even takes him seriously due to his low ball offers, only way he can be in "business" is taking advantage of newbies cause nobody with some experience will deal with him.

[Anarchist]

I think you're completely missing my point. Let me clarify. I AM NOT selling my Jester vanity, and none of this discussion has anything to do with it. I was merely using it as an example of a high priced item that's value fluctuates daily.

Its a greater problem with any item of value high enough that people can't (or won't) list in CS because of the high listing price. My example earlier of the Tarlok. Its in CS for 1.75m. What should I list it at? I am trying to sell in town for even 1.4 and a person scoffs at me. Should I spend the 100k and list it? I don't know. I have no idea if that person was right or if CS is more acurate. Because there is only one listed.

This is just an example. Not asking advice or anything like that. Just to illustrate my point. If the listing price was lower, many more people would list their items with the potential loss being much lower. In the end, the market will dictate when the item hits the sweet spot. Rather than speculation.

Aah now i understand

but 2 things i would like you to remember and i am done:

1. without speculation and with the average price of all the items dictated by the cs there will be no fun and no gain in merching. By the way these days it is already hard to merch in profit.

2. There are many times when the price of a item in the cs is absolutely wrong due to too many players selling that same item at the same time. This commonly resuls in you getting bad info from Cs and loosing gold.


At the end of the day it all comes down to 2 things:
1. how much research you do.
2. your merching skills.

[Fauksuras]

Its impossible to know the real value as it stands now. There are over 100k players in AL I'm sure. In a given day, how many can you talk to? How many have legit knowledge? How many of those are merchants? And of those merchants how many can you trust?

Come on, don't be naive. Its a very legit concern. To say it doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense.

IMHO i don't think it makes sense.

The Cs is a helping tool made for selling things it's secondary purpose though seems to be that of showing the average price of every item.


But if the item you are selling cost too much to be listed or it so rare nobody can actually determinate it's price what do you do?

You start a thread saying people are trying to steal from you cause they are low balling?

Lmao!
First of all it is a free world and i can offer 1 gold for your jester vanity it is you as the seller that has to say NO.

Secondly this is how the game of merching runs, if there is a possibility of buying something low and reselling it higher which mercher wouldn't do it? It is practically the base of merch everyone has been prophesizing since day 1.



To those regreting they sold their jester vanities for lower price than its actual value, to those complaining about merchers low balling for their jesters i say:


"GET BETTER MERCHING TECHNIQUES AND STOP COMPLAINING"

While I get the gist of what you're saying I think the issue stems from the low ball merchers trying to use dirty tactics to get low prices, such as the "it will never sell for that you noob" aforementioned. Somebody with good or legit intention or purchase will just take the "no thanks" and go on their way, not try to bully or pressure somebody to sell them for whatever ludicrous price they offered.


Another technique they do (and somebody tried on me who probably changed IGN again) is the "mystery alternate seller". When i had hooks I was trying to sell for 10M, this mercher messages me saying she will buy. SUDDENLY "wait" , a few minutes pass and... "just got a message from another seller he is selling for 8M,you're selling too high I'll give 7.5M"

I didn't even bother replying to her, a few hours later I sold for 10.25M to a legit buyer.

Food for thought

[dwellzz]

While I get the gist of what you're saying I think the issue stems from the low ball merchers trying to use dirty tactics to get low prices, such as the "it will never sell for that you noob" aforementioned. Somebody with good or legit intention or purchase will just take the "no thanks" and go on their way, not try to bully or pressure somebody to sell them for whatever ludicrous price they offered.


Another technique they do (and somebody tried on me who probably changed IGN again) is the "mystery alternate seller". When i had hooks I was trying to sell for 10M, this mercher messages me saying she will buy. SUDDENLY "wait" , a few minutes pass and... "just got a message from another seller he is selling for 8M,you're selling too high I'll give 7.5M"

I didn't even bother replying to her, a few hours later I sold for 10.25M to a legit buyer.

Food for thought

This!!!! Exactly what i mean patience is key .

[elmanco]

Actually this a another way of scam. Just ripping off with high prices..

Sts probably can make a trading system, with an historic sale of same item is trading, so buyer and seller can know the las 5 prices of the same item...isnt hard to implement

[ElfDreamer]

Its business guys.
Need experience+merching skills!

[Rare]

Aah now i understand

but 2 things i would like you to remember and i am done:

1. without speculation and with the average price of all the items dictated by the cs there will be no fun and no gain in merching. By the way these days it is already hard to merch in profit.

2. There are many times when the price of a item in the cs is absolutely wrong due to too many players selling that same item at the same time. This commonly resuls in you getting bad info from Cs and loosing gold.


At the end of the day it all comes down to 2 things:
1. how much research you do.
2. your merching skills.

For your first point, I disagree slightly. There is still the ability to buy low. If people are trying to move things fast, they will sell low. This is an opporunity for merchants to find these people and buy their wares. Still, if I were going to sell outside of cs (or buy) I would expect somewhere between a 10-20% discount at least. This is for the convenience of "selling now". The higher the price of the item the more you are going to potentially make. As you get into arcane item rarity, there aren't nearly as many buyers as there are for say mythic rarity. So people will still be willing to wiggle. AT LEAST they will know a good starting point.

For the second point, I disagree. The example you gave is exactly what supply in demand is. With the CS, its supply and demand in plain view where everyone can see it. If there are 30 people wanting to sell an item and only 10 people buying, the price will go down. And vice versa. Then it becomes the responsibility of the seller to wait until the price is right for them to sell.

Now of course, this is NOT good for the afformentioned merchant that would like to manipulate the market.

[elmanco]

For your first point, I disagree slightly. There is still the ability to buy low. If people are trying to move things fast, they will sell low. This is an opporunity for merchants to find these people and buy their wares. Still, if I were going to sell outside of cs (or buy) I would expect somewhere between a 10-20% discount at least. This is for the convenience of "selling now". The higher the price of the item the more you are going to potentially make. As you get into arcane item rarity, there aren't nearly as many buyers as there are for say mythic rarity. So people will still be willing to wiggle. AT LEAST they will know a good starting point.

For the second point, I disagree. The example you gave is exactly what supply in demand is. With the CS, its supply and demand in plain view where everyone can see it. If there are 30 people wanting to sell an item and only 10 people buying, the price will go down. And vice versa. Then it becomes the responsibility of the seller to wait until the price is right for them to sell.

Now of course, this is NOT good for the afformentioned merchant that would like to manipulate the market.

Ade read first post, that wasnt waiting to sell. Just push ppl to sell lower and the they would sell lot higher isnt merching

[baddiva]

Agreed.

The high listing fee of the AH generate too much of a gold sink. Also, money in this game is harder to obtain than a game like PL - so why do we have an even higher listing fee?

maybe it was intended to boost plat -> gold sales

[kjed]

Yah i agree with this..kids nowadays.pfft!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[Bless]

Agreed.

The high listing fee of the AH generate too much of a gold sink. Also, money in this game is harder to obtain than a game like PL - so why do we have an even higher listing fee?

maybe it was intended to boost plat -> gold sales

Omg...guys not every gold sink is designed to get people to buy gold with plat!