Economic woes of inflation in the land of Arlor....

[Energizeric]

Last year we had a big discussion about the economic woes of Arlor in this thread:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...y-in-Recession


As a result of this discussion, and based partly on my recommendation in this post....

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...=1#post1150294

....the dynamics of locked crates were changed to be what they currently are.


This change solved many of the problems the economy was suffering from last year and added a much needed influx of gold into the economy to help boost prices of legendary and mythic items at a time when prices on everything were dropping fast.

As you may remember, prices on mythic weapons had dropped to under 1.5m at a time when they were still the best weapons, and the best legendary weapons were selling for under 200k. The influx of gold helped to stabilize these prices and boost the economy.

Now these changes have caused a new unwanted problem....inflation. As a result of the continued influx of gold, prices on the very high end arcane items and the best mythic weapons have continued to increase. I was wondering why the same did not happen to legendary items as well, and then I realized the answer.... The influx of gold is from locked crates, and therefore mostly goes to wealthy players who open large amounts of locked crates. Since these players are only in the market for the best gear, those items are the only ones that have seen this huge price increase. We have now reached a point where single items are selling for 100m, and I think we can all agree that this is a bit ridiculous. When STS originally increased gold cap up to 100m, I don't think anyone anticipated this.

So what is the solution? How do you lower the prices on these very high end items without lowering the prices on lower end items? Remember that any solution that STS agrees to implement cannot discourage plat spending or the opening of locked crates. Expecting them to agree to any such solution would not be reasonable.

What we really need is a gold sink to remove extra gold from circulation, but the problem is that most middle class players cannot afford to have another gold sink. So unless we implement a new Arlor progressive income tax on the rich, this is not a viable solution....

So here is my proposed solution:

Once again we must adjust the dynamics of locked crates....

1) Lower the amount of gold rewards in locked crates... do not lower the smaller 2k gold rewards, but lower the chances of getting the larger gold rewards, and perhaps even eliminate the largest of those rewards from the drop table.

2) Boost the drop rates of the newest and highest priced Arcane items. I'm not talking a huge increase in drop rate here, but enough to cause an increase in supply of these items which will help to lower their prices a bit.

3) Lower the drop rates of older Mythic and Arcane items. There is no need for items no longer used at end game to still be dropping from locked crates at high frequency. All this does is create a surplus of these items, and with not very much demand out there, these items will continue to drop in price. Someone who finally loots a mythic item from a locked crate only to find out that it is worth 200k is NOT going to be very happy. Lowering the drop rates on these older items will help keep the prices higher. That, in combination with the boost in drop rates on the more popular newer items will make more players happy with the drops they get from locked crates.

4) Remove the oldest Arcane Pets, Hammerjaw and Glacian, from locked crates. Their mythic counterparts Ripmaw and Slag have long been discontinued from the plat store, so no reason the arcane versions should still be dropping from locked crates. Nobody opening a locked crate is happy when they loot an arcane item only to find out it is the one worth 6m and not the one worth 20-50m.

5) Remove scaling of legendary items from locked crates. Because legendary items scale to the level of the user, we are left with a situation where there are too many end game legendary crate items dropping, causing the prices of even the best ones to drop to less than 1k. Today you can buy a level 41 expedition rifle of brutality for 500 gold -- this is currently the best sorcerer gun. Then you have players who have created twinks to open locked crates and get items at popular twink pvp levels. I suggest every legendary item should be random as to which level it is, and then crate items for both end game and popular twink levels cannot be farmed in the same way, and will then be more rare and will be worth more money, and this will make them more of a reward when they are looted. I would suggest making the odds lean more towards end game items since there is obviously more demand for those, but still make it random so that even an end game player can loot that popular level 18 expedition bow. And just as a level 10 player can loot a level 36 Ker'Shal Scepter, they can also loot a level 41 expedition rifle.

I think these adjustments should help stabilize and lower prices on the most expensive stuff, while at the same time making locked crates more desired.

Any thoughts?

[Zeus]

I agree with all of this!

I should not be able to sell arcane rings at upwards of 100m+. The gold cap was 100m to not have this issue in the first place, correct?

[Rare]

Now these changes have caused a new unwanted problem....inflation.

I'm pretty sure I said that EXACTLY that would happen. I could be wrong. let me look through the thread.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...=1#post1147336

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...=1#post1147016

I'm going to stick with my suggestion. Fix the root of the problem, one that still hasn't been fixed. Playing with the gold in the economy is not going to fix the economic woes in Arlor. Do the right thing and address the problem.

If you want to get money OUT of the economy, create gold sinks (e.g. expensive revives for gold). If you want to get gold INTO the economy, get people playing and wanting the high priced items. I still see so many people right now that are hamstrung because they can't afford the best gear to run elite. They're stuck in a catch 22. Can't farm elite to get the gear needed for elite. Yes yes... if you get lucky enough to find an awesome party and spend hours and hours coming up with a strategy with that same party it works great. Lets be honest about it. I won't go into it. For the majority of people playing, this isn't possible. I tried a pug once in Tindirin, and I won't again.

By removing the gold from crates, more than anything, you are going to hurt new players that can't afford simple things like pots. Or even to gear up with decent gear. Locked farming, to me, is the most boring tedious way of making money in this game. I honestly don't see how anyone does it on a regular basis and still wants more. I do it occasionally if I get a luck elixir and can't find an elite party.

[Solid]

I think it was bad planning on STS's side, they should have calculated or at least estimated the amount of gold being put in (lockeds, gold conversions) and try to have balanced it out (pet feeds, auction tax)

[Rare]

I think it was bad planning on STS's side, they should have calculated or at least estimated the amount of gold being put in (lockeds, gold conversions) and try to have balanced it out (pet feeds, auction tax)

Pet feeds only affect a minority. Unless you PVP with one pet, most people have a pet rotation. So you're only looking at the Arcane pet wielders that will consistently do this. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it. Auction tax? That only helps the rich merchants and holds down the little guy.

We need real gold sinks. These sink only work if they are perks that are a luxury (gold revives for example). Pots, listing fees, these are not luxuries any longer.

[Reunegade]

Great points, however I do not think the arcane pets (Hammerjaw, Glacian) should be removed from crates. These pets are viable and therefore should not be removed so that users who would like to use arcanes such as HJ and Glacian get the chance to do so without having to pay 10 million more for the best arcane.

[FluffNStuff]

Last year we had a big discussion about the economic woes of Arlor in this thread:



As a result of this discussion, and based partly on my recommendation in this post....


Now these changes have caused a new unwanted problem....

I don't think anyone anticipated this.

So what is the solution?




So here is my proposed solution:

Once again ...

Throws up hands ... can't post what I want ...

[Energizeric]

Guys, STS is never going to agree to a solution that reduces plat sales. So please be constructive and make suggestions accordingly. That means no items offered for gold that are currently things offered for plat. If you want a gold sink, it has to come from somewhere else. They are not going to agree to gold revives since they currently charge plat for that. They are not going to agree to do anything that will lower locked crates sales either.

Zeus and I discussed this yesterday, and it is clear to both of us that the real issue at hand is that you will always have problems with the economy in an MMO that is a "free to play" model. The perfect solution is to get rid of plat entirely and just charge a monthly fee. But that would probably result in STS going out of business as the player base is not strong enough to survive that kind of change. So to quote a funny line from the movie "Fargo", instead we must choose the best of the bad options.

[Temarichan]

I think it was bad planning on STS's side, they should have calculated or at least estimated the amount of gold being put in (lockeds, gold conversions) and try to have balanced it out (pet feeds, auction tax)

Through auction fees and pet feeding, gold has a way to... Well, be removed from the economy.

Despite the high feeding prices now at level 40-41 pets, it's the only mini vent to prevent too much gold stimulating around.

[Wutzgood]

1, 2, and 3 are ok. The others I wouldn't like. Personally I think the economy is fine tho.

[octavos]

I think the economy is fine, its only when arcane/mythic items show up..it makes things just sky rocket. (if there is a gold cap even for 200mill or even 500mill....when will it ever stop XD) even simple missions that when you get 1 or 2 gold..is like pesos from mexico compared to gold in locked. so why would the devs change that?

A money/item bomb is what we need. but..something to help encourage spending instead of feeling used XD.

A nice informative video We need a money bomb

Enjoy....

[FluffNStuff]

Guys, STS is never going to agree to a solution that reduces plat sales. So please be constructive and make suggestions accordingly. That means no items offered for gold that are currently things offered for plat. If you want a gold sink, it has to come from somewhere else. They are not going to agree to gold revives since they currently charge plat for that. They are not going to agree to do anything that will lower locked crates sales either.

Zeus and I discussed this yesterday, and it is clear to both of us that the real issue at hand is that you will always have problems with the economy in an MMO that is a "free to play" model. The perfect solution is to get rid of plat entirely and just charge a monthly fee. But that would probably result in STS going out of business as the player base is not strong enough to survive that kind of change. So to quote a funny line from the movie "Fargo", instead we must choose the best of the bad options.

Can we just save some time by asking you directly what you are buying/selling that you wish to have the price raised /lowered so STS can just do that and save the REST of the economy from the fall out?

[Energizeric]

Why do you assume I have some personal thing to gain from this? I don't. This post came about because last night I was chatting with Zeus and he was saying how ridiculous it was that he could sell arcane rings for 100m, and that things were starting to get out of hand. It has reached a point where one cannot save for these items as the price keeps rising faster than even the best farmer can earn money. So if you wanted the best arcane item and you set out to save up 100m for it, by the time you reach 100m, the price for the best arcane item will be 200m, and so on. This pattern needs to be halted, if not reversed.

Anyone who is not a plat spender can benefit from this kind of fix. The best items should always be in reach of non-plat spenders who work hard and put in lots of hours playing regularly. Through season 4, that always seemed to be true. Starting last season with Ker'shal Scepters selling for 60m, this started to get out of hand, and now we have arcane rings going for 100m. What will happen next season? 200m arcane items? When does it stop?

[FluffNStuff]

Why do you assume I have some personal thing to gain from this? I don't. This post came about because last night I was chatting with Zeus and he was saying how ridiculous it was that he could sell arcane rings for 100m, and that things were starting to get out of hand. It has reached a point where one cannot save for these items as the price keeps rising faster than even the best farmer can earn money. So if you wanted the best arcane item and you set out to save up 100m for it, by the time you reach 100m, the price for the best arcane item will be 200m, and so on. This pattern needs to be halted, if not reversed.

Anyone who is not a plat spender can benefit from this kind of fix.

OK, I'll bite. Explain to me WHY the arcane ring cost 100M gold and I will believe you both understand the economy and are not just trying to manipulate it.

[csyui]

I could be wrong, but are you trying to lower the current price of arcane staff you are looking for by making this kind of thread?

[Tendirin]

yeah i agree wth fluff

[Reunegade]

How about an intricate questline that gives you the best gear in the game?

For example:
1. Get dragkin teeth (or buy) a dragonite bar.
2. Craft the dragonite bar into an infused dragonite bar which requires you to put 10m gold to the infuser ball.
3. A quest will be given to farm 100 dragkin teeth to receive an 'infused dragonite weapon' recipe.
4. Take the recipe to the infuser ball and infuse the dragonite bar to the weapon recipe. That will give you an infused dragonite weapon.
5. To make it a sword, staff, or daggers you have to put 2m gold to the infuser ball.
6. Wait 7 days before the infuser recipe is ready. You get to pick an 'infused' sword, staff, or dagger recipe.
7. A quest will be given to farm 50 dragkin teeth to receive a dragonite shard. Infuse the sword, staff, or dagger recipe, the shard, and the infused dragonite weapon and get the weapon.


Meh, it has to be something hard and worthwhile if you want the best item in the game, aswell as implement a gold sink alongside with it.

[Zeus]

I could be wrong, but are you trying to lower the current price of arcane staff you are looking for by making this kind of thread?

I don't see that connection at all. The arcane staff is at a stable, reasonable price.

The arcane ring? It is not. This is coming from someone that has made 60m+ merchanting them alone. If the price lowered, it would only affect my profit margin negatively as I need the crazy demand to justify gemming rings with tarlok wind gems. Otherwise, the cost just does not play out favorably.

However, at the same time that I am profiting off of this, I realized: isn't it a bit ridiculous at these prices? We're talking about a ring here, a ring! Is it really worth more than a Midas Touch or is it that the rich have a lot of hyperinflated gold in their hands and have nothing to do with it?

[Anarchist]

I don't think things are that bad actually...
The arcane ring has 4 fundamental qualities that makes it so disired and highly priced:

#1 Extremely rare: not only because it is defined as "arcane" but also because there are very very very few of them ingame.
#2 The best item: Yes the arcane ring is currently the best item compaired to any other right now. Nothing can beat it.
#3 Hard to create: The quest to create it is one of the most tedious and time taking.
#4 New: It just came out. Anything that is new and few initially is highly priced even if it a pair of green useless daggers.

Adding this to the fact Parth arcane ring was "perfectly perfect" with the rarest gems ingame it is only obvious it would cost a huge amount of gold.
As for the other arcane and mythic items they are currently accessible only through merching and farming w/o the help of plats so let us not genaralize a case and apply it to all the others.

[Rare]

and that things were starting to get out of hand. It has reached a point where one cannot save for these items as the price keeps rising faster than even the best farmer can earn money.

Correction... things ARE out of hand. And they were out of hand last year before you started that thread.