Discussion - Should Guild Age Be A Guild Rank Criteria?

[Azepeiete]

Lol ok h2n got it, wipe boards, make it so a little crown appears next to party leader when a time is set. DO NOT COUNT TIMES FOR FIRST FEW WEEKS BECAUSE ONLY BAD RECS WILL BE THERE. Could implement both tbh

[Zeus]

Go get your old guild names then Zeus


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That would not make sense though, as I've explained this being a very immovable statistic. I've also explained the consequences. If this happens, I will do just that but I won't like doing it. Why? It's a statistic that nobody can compete in.

Old doesn't == better. It just means old.

[Azepeiete]

How about, guild age in rankings. Meaning how many weeks they have been in rankings. Shows consistency, and you cant just move people to new guild name.

[Zeus]

How about, guild age in rankings. Meaning how many weeks they have been in rankings. Shows consistency, and you cant just move people to new guild name.

The same factor is involved: longevity. As I've said before, having longevity as a factor in any stat doesn't == better. Timed runs is a statistic that suits you, but it is a statistic that others can compete in as well. So, why is it not a viable solution and why do you keep insisting on solutions that involve longevity?

[inkredible]

LOL elite time records >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as rank
if u dont agree with guild age rank, then atleast put that in place ^


elite time records prove 100% MORE better than PVP ranks.. pvp easily cheated


or how about just take out top guilds in leaderboard. everyone wont care so much over it

[Zeus]

LOL elite time records >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as rank
if u dont agree with guild age rank, then atleast put that in place ^

I just said that I agreed with it...anything that another guild can compete in is a fine statistic, IMO.

[inkredible]

I just said that I agreed with it...anything that another guild can compete in is a fine statistic, IMO.

like competing how much dummies in pvp people can kill?

[Zeus]

like competing how much dummies in pvp people can kill?

Umm, we don't have dummies in our guild. I will explain why: PvP KDR is directly related to kills per member. If you bring in a high KDR but low kills booster, it would dramatically drop your kills per member stat (which would make it a trade off. You didn't really improve all that much).

So, you need players that have both a high amount of kills as well as a good KDR. Those are difficult boosters to make, who wants to spend the time on that? So, anyone who is doing that is really just shooting themselves in the foot.

[dantus]

+1 for weeks in top 50. This would eliminate the possibility of dummy guilds being sold to newer guilds. I think that longevity loyalty and consistency should count toward something. It is not a determining factor over time, but something imo should be taken into consideration.

[Zeus]

+1 for weeks in top 50. This would eliminate the possibility of dummy guilds being sold to newer guilds. I think that longevity loyalty and consistency should count toward something. It is not a determining factor over time, but something imo should be taken into consideration.

It does count for something already, Dant...the end of the year ranking thread. It shouldn't however be a permanent inclusion, otherwise how are other guilds supposed to compete? Even early on in the year, it doesn't make sense to add it.

However, on the other hand, I do see why it would work as well.

Maybe it's just me, but the longevity biased is a real turn off to me.

[inkredible]

Umm, we don't have dummies in our guild. I will explain why: PvP KDR is directly related to kills per member. If you bring in a high KDR but low kills booster, it would dramatically drop your kills per member stat (which would make it a trade off. You didn't really improve all that much).

So, you need players that have both a high amount of kills as well as a good KDR. Those are difficult boosters to make, who wants to spend the time on that? So, anyone who is doing that is really just shooting themselves in the foot.

i know how kdr works u dont need to tell me lol
im talkin about MORE KIlls not kdr..


summing it all up.. u can talk bad about every category all u want how it shouldnt be in guild ranks and u could say the same with GUILD AGE
but all of them has some sort of meaning why it can be or should be included in guild ranks...
most of the oldest guild in the top 50 simply did their job keeping their guild in there.. and for those people who are so desperate for that 1/16 win.. and wants to transfer to an older guild name .. isnt much different to disbanding a guild and reforming one with another to boost activity.. atleast guild age would only be 1/16 of the factors.. while activity of newer guilds are 5/16 .. big difference.

Guild age has it ups and its downs also,
positive look : it can say a lot about how well established a guild are, how the leaders are and how loyal members are in the guild
negative look: can easily be deceived by joining to an older name guild

I could also the say the same with
Average pvp kills:
posivite: could tell how good a player is in killing in pvp
Negative:- can easily be boost by dummies

Average pve kills
positive: could tell how much time input and effort put in, in running maps
negative: easily deceived by marco users

CTF flags
positive: dedication and time.. surviving in a pvp map and able to flag that much flags with people attacking them
negative: before fixing ctf .. some people may have abused the glitched system
negative: too much free flagging.. doesnt mean skills now days

activity:
positive: show how active members are in guild and in game - important in a sense for people to know who could be there to help them in AL activities (more activie people online the better)
negative: disbanding, merging, renewal of guilds ..easily given as the most active guild.. due to "most recent online" invited in guilds
negative: existing twinks they dont always log in to, (adds up per members)
negative:having 1000 members in guild and having 50% activity doesnt mean its not active..
- depends a lot with how big/small guild is


list goes on

[Zeus]

i know how kdr works u dont need to tell me lol
im talkin about MORE KIlls not kdr..


summing it all up.. u can talk bad about every category all u want how it shouldnt be in guild ranks and u could say the same with GUILD AGE
but all of them has some sort of meaning why it can be or should be included in guild ranks...
most of the oldest guild in the top 50 simply did their job keeping their guild in there.. and for those people who are so desperate for that 1/16 win.. and wants to transfer to an older guild name .. isnt much different to disbanding a guild and reforming one with another to boost activity.. atleast guild age would only be 1/16 of the factors.. while activity of newer guilds are 5/16 .. big difference.

Ink,

The thing is, which guild has boosters then? I don't really see any. We certainly do not have them.

Guild age is an immovable statistic. The thing about stats are that they are always changing, these ones are stagnant as nobody can compete with them, which is why it shouldn't be implemented.

By keeping the oldest guild age, y'all just assure yourself the number 1 position and nobody can ever hope to compete with you except for former rivals. Isn't that a bit messed up? Y'all are welcome to compete in the other categories as they're easily manipulable.

[inkredible]

Ink,

The thing is, which guild has boosters then? I don't really see any. We certainly do not have them.

Guild age is an immovable statistic. The thing about stats are that they are always changing, these ones are stagnant as nobody can compete with them, which is why it shouldn't be implemented.

By keeping the oldest guild age, y'all just assure yourself the number 1 position and nobody can ever hope to compete with you except for former rivals. Isn't that a bit messed up? Y'all are welcome to compete in the other categories as they're easily manipulable.

updated

[inkredible]

Ink,

The thing is, which guild has boosters then? I don't really see any. We certainly do not have them.

Guild age is an immovable statistic. The thing about stats are that they are always changing, these ones are stagnant as nobody can compete with them, which is why it shouldn't be implemented.

By keeping the oldest guild age, y'all just assure yourself the number 1 position and nobody can ever hope to compete with you except for former rivals. Isn't that a bit messed up? Y'all are welcome to compete in the other categories as they're easily manipulable.

LOL i could name a few people in ur guild who i knew farmed their kills.. (terms of dummies) you are just never sure who and who doesnt boost..
all the categories can be so bias in many different ways.. hence why h2n made it in such a way theres 15 different factors ..one factor wont affect that much

open ur eyes. this isnt about ur guild. this isnt about people who boost their kills. im speaking in general terms how each category is bias ALONE

[Iliketolol]

Yes

[inkredible]

Tbh guild ranks purposes isnt really for competition.. i personally think that sts did guild ranks mostly for new players.. not existing
each category somewhat tells something about a guild, though they can all be misleading
- having number 1 aps but being ranked 30 - simply means u just have a lot of members in your guild
- having the highest kdr - doesnt really tell much anything about the guild really.
- having a higher average pvp/pve kills - tells u the activity of someones guild in terms of pvp and pve and the members they consist
- so overall if you look at each category you will somewhat have some sort of idea how the guild is

look at magnum and DM both have fairly similar pvp kdr of 1.6
however the pvp kills are not close to each other - that really just tell that a lot more people pvp in magnum but it doesnt mean that the players in it are better than DM , they just have higher # pvpers..

look at the guild ranks as whole.. not one by one or it just wont make sense why

[csyui]

Sounds good.

Adding more factors (guild age, member size, and etc.) makes the response variable (final rank) more unpredictable.

[Zeus]

updated

You still cannot counter argue anything against the fact that it is THE ONLY stat on there that will be immovable. Every other stat, a guild can do something about. Ink, as for farming kills, guilds can do it, sure but the rank 1-2 is by nonfarmers, that's all I am saying. Remember, just because they twinked doesn't make them farmers.

You said one factor won't affect that much, yet it makes a guild who does not have a single rank as #1 the #1 guild so obviously it does effect the rankings quite a bit.

Anyways, we've both said our views and as much as we argue to convince each other, it won't work. H2N has both the pros and cons and can see the controversy of adding it, so it is his call on wether or not to implement it.

[Serancha]

Avg Rank value for the top 5 with guild age ranking.

DM 7.1
EoS 7.4
Resilience 7.8
Magnum 7.9
Chosen 9.4

Then there's guilds like ours that had a temporary accidental disbanding but were immediately reformed. Our original formation date was in November 2012.

[Zeus]

Then there's guilds like ours that had a temporary accidental disbanding but were immediately reformed. Our original formation date was in November 2012.

This is also a very valid point. It's just not a good stat to include. One mistake and your rank for this is blown, even if it's an accidental disband.