The future of itemization and locked crates

[Rare]

Hello Everyone. This discussion is about a couple things. I hope that you all can give your input as well as these are just my thoughts and opinions on the subject matter. I would like to apologize in advance for the length. The discussion includes:

1.The current state and future of gear itemization.
2.The future of legendary/mythic/arcane gear.

Itemization:

The main objective here is to give an opinion on where STS should go from here. To be perfectly honest, I think the “itemization” introduced in Dragon Enclave is falling short of what STS intended. I won’t say it is a failure as it is a new concept STS is trying and something they can build upon. However, I do not think it is working quite as they envisioned. We haven’t seen the next phase yet, so I don’t know. In any case, first, I would like to breakdown MY idea of how itemization should work. I apologize again for the lengthy thread and hope those who comment will take the time to read it.

First, lets talk about how itemization “should” work. The concept that STS put forth was to stagger introduction of gear to make the game more enjoyable for a longer period. I take this to mean “keeping PVE interesting and viable for longer.” To accomplish this, I think STS should consider a new way to stagger items. The main issue we are seeing is that people do not feel comfortable buying the current gear in anticipation of something greater just around the corner. To some (the wealthy) this doesn’t really matter. For others it is VERY important. I suggest staggering item “types” rather than introducing new gear (whether it be new gear or new rarity) into the game at different intervals. Let me explain.

First, lets quickly breakdown the different classes and the legendary gear that is “most desired.” The desirability is, of course, my opinion and may be different from other opinions. I am a PVE player so my opinion is based on elite viability of gear. I am using the gear types from the last two seasons (Magma, Architect) as well as SOME types from the past.

Rogue Weapons:

1.Brutality/Potency
2.Tactics
3.Ripost

Rogue Armor:

1.Will/Brutality/Potency
2.Tactics/Stability
3.Other

Warrior Weapons:

1.Will/Assault
2.Tactics
3.Fatality

Warrior Armor:

1.Will/Assault
2.Grace/Tactics
3.Other

Sorcerer Weapons:

1.Brutality/Assault
2.Fatality/Stability
3.Other

Sorcerer Armor:

1.Security/Assault
2.Force
3.Other

The idea to introduce the gear in phases based on desirability. However, we can’t have phases where none of the desirable gear is in the loot table. So my suggestion would be to stagger item types. Here is an example.

Phase I: Top Tier Weapon, 2nd Tier Armor,
Phase 2: Top Tier Weapon, Top Tier Armor

This is pretty simplified for the sake of brevity (haha Ikr). This could be stretched even longer by adding a third tier if you separate armor from helmets. This will provide farmers and players something to strive for without having to worry that the next wave of gear will make their current gear obsolete. Or even for players that aren’t aware, it will protect their rage meter from going off when a new wave IS released.

I will probably need to add more to this, but its already getting pretty lengthy and I haven’t started discussing the second bullet.

Legendary/Mythic/Arcane

The main goal of this part of the discussion is to introduce Mythic and Arcane rarity items, which are the major source of income for STS, without completely disrupting or destroying the value and desirability of legendary gear. Obviously, this is very difficult, and in some cases cannot be done. In my opinion, these legendary items must remain viable and competitive for both “wealthy” and “unwealthy” players. Here are my suggestions:

1.Do not release Mythic Armors or Helmets.

Some may not like this. But hear me out. The developers spend a lot of time creating these new items during each expansion. In terms of visual pleasure, the armors and helms have the greatest impact with weapons closely following. It’s a real shame that in the last 2 or 3 seasons, a large number of people have completely ignored these. By leaving legendary Armors and Helmets as the top gear you not only reward the developers for their hard work, but also maintain the value and viability of these items each expansion.

2.Mythic and Arcane rarity items should be limited to Weapons, Rings, Amulets, and pets.

This is only my opinion, but I think these items will provide plenty of revenue for STS. If I were a betting man, I would wager that there would not be very much drop off if they were limited in this way. I believe it will also help greatly with PVP balance as at least SOME of the top gear is available for free potentially. By leaving helmets and armors as legendary, there will always be some value in farming elite content.

Again, there is probably more to be added, but I’ve gone on long enough. Likely, most people that looked at this thread haven’t made it this far. I am sorry for that.

Please give your opinions.

[Pandamoni]

Gear thread! As you know I'm pretty ridiculous when it comes to gear but I really think that making mythic and arcades limited to jewelry, weapons and pets seems like a great idea.

[Kreasadriii]

Nice thread, Rare!

[Bigboyblue]

I like where you are going with this topic. The only issue is if second tier gear is released in wave one you have the same issue. Everyone wants the weapon because it is tier 1, but people are afraid to buy the tier 2 armor. Maybe an idea is to release all top tier helms, then all top tier armors, then all top tier weapons. The only thing I can't sort out is how to do these drops. You can't just remove the first wave from the loot table when the new items are brought in. Reduce the first waves drop rate? Then after a month make them drop at the same rate. Not sure if this is good or not.

[Rare]

I like where you are going with this topic. The only issue is if second tier gear is released in wave one you have the same issue. Everyone wants the weapon because it is tier 1, but people are afraid to buy the tier 2 armor. Maybe an idea is to release all top tier helms, then all top tier armors, then all top tier weapons. The only thing I can't sort out is how to do these drops. You can't just remove the first wave from the loot table when the new items are brought in. Reduce the first waves drop rate? Then after a month make them drop at the same rate. Not sure if this is good or not.

Well, here's my thought.

In the first phase, people will farm item A (Top tier). Items B and C (second tier) will also be available and should give a slight boost over old gear. Obviously, these will not be very valuable, but at least gives an option to farm if you want a slightly better item.

In the second phase, you will have Item A (Top Tier) and Item B (Top tier). With Item C (second tier) still waiting for the next phase. Again, people will farm the top tier items for their value. The second tier items will still hold some small value for the time being. But nobody is going to farm them heavily.

As of now... ALL loot from all tiers are introduced at the same time. For example:

Elite Wilds drops Daggers of all type. In the new model, for example, during the first pphase only Riposte/Tactics daggers would drop. During the next phase, Top tier dagger would be added to the loot table.

During this first phase, armors from Randtail would be Top Tier as well as lower tier.

Essentially, as time goes by, better loot will be added to the loot table of specific types. This is just a simple example. Also, by limiting Arcane/Mythic items to the types I mentioned, they do not generally have to be staggered. Weapons will intersect with legendary, but as we've seen, Mythic weapons are limited time loot from crates. So their rarity will keep them far enough away from legendary to not really affect the value.

I hope this makes sense. If you could see me waving my hands around as I explain and doodling pictures, it would make more sense.

[Iliketolol]

+1..

[Xjointz]

nice thread big brother keep it up ^_^

[notfaded1]

As I've stated before one thing that would be great would be new pinks in locked every couple of weeks. It doesn't have to be an entire set but swap some items out every couple weeks and update the names and stats a little plus if possible add new graphic effects (change colors etc.) This would be great for multiple reasons and I think would be worth the investment. Collectors would love this as well.

Props to devs for removing hooks from locked. Now create some kinda quest to add a shard to existing hooks to upgrade to lvl 41 and/or create a new Rogue arcane weapon... then follow this up with doing the same thing to other classes arcane weapon but since hooks were the oldest and lowest level start with them. Since it will take a shard and an existing set of hooks there won't be a ton of these running around.

I can see the shards evolving into much more than they are today crafting wise. Both of these ideas would boost locked opening.

[Zuzeq]

I can get behind most of your points uso. I think it can be slightly more simple than tiers though. I think Elite pink loot would hold their value just fine if the items that are to be released are not overall better than the ones already in place. Dummy example , the next Elite Sword would grant more Mana and Armor but still less Damage and HP or something of that nature. A move such as this coupled with some far diff procs would make both current and furture items in demand throughout.

[notfaded1]

I can get behind most of your points uso. I think it can be slightly more simple than tiers though. I think Elite pink loot would hold their value just fine if the items that are to be released are not overall better than the ones already in place. Dummy example , the next Elite Sword would grant more Mana and Armor but still less Damage and HP or something of that nature. A move such as this coupled with some far diff procs would make both current and furture items in demand throughout.

I concur... making them get better and better the whole time would be extremely frustrating... like Zuz said the stats should just change up and down in different areas... there should be some good pinks all the time. I think we all can agree that new pinks coming in every couple weeks and old going out with different procs / effects etc. would be awesome.

[GoodSyntax]

I suspect that the staggered release may actually be more events with newer, better gear, like Hellish and Tarlok from last season, or farmable/lootable pets. Unfortunately, this could decimate the market for Magma gear, if event gear winds up being better. My biggest issue with event gear is that once the event is over, and the best Legendary gear for the season is no longer lootable, what point is there to go back into elite maps when at best, you could loot a third or fourth tier item?

Personally, I hope that they introduce better, more powerful elite legendary gear as the season progresses. It should start out that with an expansion, new Mythics get released. This will give the wealthy an advantage for the entire season, but as the staggering progresses, and the elite legendary gear improves, Legendaries become more competitive until they get close to parity with the Mythics that were released at the start of the season. This way, by the third stagger for the season, elite legendaries are nearly equivalent. Obviously, with the third gemming slot, Mythics will continue to hold an advantage throughout the season, and even into the first stagger of the following season.

This will result in a surge of plat purchases and locked opening at the start of the season, followed by surge after surge of elite runs as new, better gear is staggered in. I was so disappointed last season with Architect and Shade gear, that by mid-season, I was losing money, even when I looted Architect. The only thing that kept me cashflow neutral was the value of Elite Golden Puzzleboxes, but towards the end of the season, even those became almost worthless. I think that this concept that Mythics should be the best for two seasons, and Arcanes for three is where the issue comes into play. Once Mythics hit critical mass, then there is no market for elite legendaries, since they aren't even competitive against Mythics, and everyone knows it. Mythics should be the best for the season and up until the release of elites for the following expansion.

If you think of it this way, when upgraded Mythic armor/helm were created in Nordr, it remained the best helm and armor in Shuyal, and arguably is still. So someone who got upgraded Mythic early in Nordr had no need to spend gold on upgrades for nearly two full seasons! Conversely, if you get your Mythics at the start of the season, and it lasts until elites drop the following season, then there is still high demand for elite legendaries, since we all know Mythics are expensive and not really affordable for the masses. Basically, we completely lost a whole economic cycle in Shuyal due to the Mythic helm and armor, and we all know how the value of elite legendary gear never really got off the ground (though there were some exceptions for the best weapons). Even still, Mythics from Nordr continue to be better than the elite legendaries of this expansion.

If we play this out where there are 3 staggers per season, and at the start of the expansion, Mythics are released that are equivalent to 4 staggers, then these items will retain solid value for many months, but the legendaries of each stagger also hold value. Better still, if, with the release of each stagger, earlier gear is discontinued. That way, previous stagger gear becomes kind of a high end vanity, so will hold value and only appreciate over time.

Just my opinion on the matter.....you may disagree.

[Rare]

If you think of it this way, when upgraded Mythic armor/helm were created in Nordr, it remained the best helm and armor in Shuyal, and arguably is still. So someone who got upgraded Mythic early in Nordr had no need to spend gold on upgrades for nearly two full seasons! Conversely, if you get your Mythics at the start of the season, and it lasts until elites drop the following season, then there is still high demand for elite legendaries, since we all know Mythics are expensive and not really affordable for the masses. Basically, we completely lost a whole economic cycle in Shuyal due to the Mythic helm and armor, and we all know how the value of elite legendary gear never really got off the ground (though there were some exceptions for the best weapons). Even still, Mythics from Nordr continue to be better than the elite legendaries of this expansion.

Yes, personally, this is what I hope STS will avoid. Obviously, they can't completely avoid it as crates are the lifeblood right now. But by limiting the types of mythic/arcane gear coming from crates you can leave at least some legendaries highly valuable and highly desireable. Essentially... some gear will keep its value and farming for these items will keep elite active throughout the campaign. People will continue buying the legendary gear because its the best. As opposed to people saving gold to buy mythics.

Like I suggested, the developers put a lot of effort into designing new gear for each expansion. Its a shame they aren't as desirable as they could be.

I personally do not like the idea of new event gear coming mid expansion that will make older gear obsolete. To me, this is exactly the same as end of season. People will not have motivation to buy, and thus farm, because they are waiting for the next best thing to drop. People that DO buy the current gear will rage and feel ripped off when the new, better gear comes. Hence the idea to stagger different type. So the following phases will not affect the top tier gear from the previous phase.

[valheeru]

+1 awesome

[GoodSyntax]

Yes, personally, this is what I hope STS will avoid. Obviously, they can't completely avoid it as crates are the lifeblood right now. But by limiting the types of mythic/arcane gear coming from crates you can leave at least some legendaries highly valuable and highly desireable. Essentially... some gear will keep its value and farming for these items will keep elite active throughout the campaign. People will continue buying the legendary gear because its the best. As opposed to people saving gold to buy mythics.

Like I suggested, the developers put a lot of effort into designing new gear for each expansion. Its a shame they aren't as desirable as they could be.

I personally do not like the idea of new event gear coming mid expansion that will make older gear obsolete. To me, this is exactly the same as end of season. People will not have motivation to buy, and thus farm, because they are waiting for the next best thing to drop. People that DO buy the current gear will rage and feel ripped off when the new, better gear comes. Hence the idea to stagger different type. So the following phases will not affect the top tier gear from the previous phase.

My only fear with staggering by the different type of gear means that at any given point in the stagger schedule, only one map will be farmed routinely. If Magmatic Blades of Brutality were the best available, then the only map that would be getting farmed is Elite Wilds. Then, next stagger, the only map getting farmed may be just Jagged Trail, with some residual activity in Wilds.

Right now, since top gear drops from all maps, I farm everything. But, if top gear were only available in one map, I would only farm that one, and eventually, the hardcores would farm that map to the point of market saturation.

The whole premise behind increasingly powerful gear per stagger is to keep income potential high, since non-mythics would want whatever gear is best to farm with that they are able to afford. Also, since previous stagger gear would be discontinued, it may hold some value. honestly, this approach is no different than the release of Architect followed by Hellish and Tarlok. Some people raged, some dealt with it and many got rich, but at least it provided some stimulus to what was, at the time, a completely flat economy.

[Zuzeq]

My only fear with staggering by the different type of gear means that at any given point in the stagger schedule, only one map will be farmed routinely. If Magmatic Blades of Brutality were the best available, then the only map that would be getting farmed is Elite Wilds. Then, next stagger, the only map getting farmed may be just Jagged Trail, with some residual activity in Wilds.

Right now, since top gear drops from all maps, I farm everything. But, if top gear were only available in one map, I would only farm that one, and eventually, the hardcores would farm that map to the point of market saturation.

The whole premise behind increasingly powerful gear per stagger is to keep income potential high, since non-mythics would want whatever gear is best to farm with that they are able to afford. Also, since previous stagger gear would be discontinued, it may hold some value. honestly, this approach is no different than the release of Architect followed by Hellish and Tarlok. Some people raged, some dealt with it and many got rich, but at least it provided some stimulus to what was, at the time, a completely flat economy.

They could change to whole farming game by running a dual loot table as staggers come. Example: Elite Wilds would drop Mag Dags AND say the next Elite Tank weapon etc... I think that coupled w/ with the weapon tweak suggestion I made above could work if done right.

[GoodSyntax]

If all maps have all the top legendaries in the loot table, then I'm totally fine with this suggestion. I was just concerned for that poor Abomination in the Jagged Trail

And, I must admit, I love the idea about lots of different procs. There isn't just one way to play this game, so the variations in procs support the different playstyles!

[Zanpakuto]

I agree with many points namely the elite armors and helmets need to be left legendary. Last few seasons not many people even touched those due to the mythic sets and as a result, no one farmed those maps due to a lack of profits. What completely destroyed last farming season was the release of "event" gear such as the Winter as well as Tarlok gears that were better in every way when compared with the legendary gear. I hope sts doesn't do this again, but I can see how they want to normalize gears for everyone, but sadly all this does is nerf elites.

I like the first poster's method of gear itemization rather than the event gear model and I think that should be the future direction of AL. Let's see how the next swamp princess vanity event will play out and hopefully "Ent" gear won't have higher damage than the magma. Fire > wood. Infact, fire burns wood and hopefully this event won't burn elites.

[Rare]

My only fear with staggering by the different type of gear means that at any given point in the stagger schedule, only one map will be farmed routinely. If Magmatic Blades of Brutality were the best available, then the only map that would be getting farmed is Elite Wilds. Then, next stagger, the only map getting farmed may be just Jagged Trail, with some residual activity in Wilds.

Right now, since top gear drops from all maps, I farm everything. But, if top gear were only available in one map, I would only farm that one, and eventually, the hardcores would farm that map to the point of market saturation.

The whole premise behind increasingly powerful gear per stagger is to keep income potential high, since non-mythics would want whatever gear is best to farm with that they are able to afford. Also, since previous stagger gear would be discontinued, it may hold some value. honestly, this approach is no different than the release of Architect followed by Hellish and Tarlok. Some people raged, some dealt with it and many got rich, but at least it provided some stimulus to what was, at the time, a completely flat economy.

Looking at the previous two expansions... of the 5 maps, only 2 would go unused if, say, weapons were released first. Given that even now, the majority of the players are only farming 2-3 maps, I don't think it changes much. To some, sure it will, but for the vast majority the main maps being farmed are wilds, jagged trail, and caves.

In the other two maps it will help to add the secondary gear that most people do not use, but is still comparable or better than the gear from the previous season. Those gears would never pull in top dollar. They never have. But they will likely pull in a little more if they are better than what people already have. When new top tier gear drops, those maps will be flooded with new players. As opposed to now where rarely does anyone touch Magma Corridor or Rockerhorn Summit.

I do understand what you're saying though. It would suck to have certain maps empty (but honestly, its been the case every season). But it would only be temporary for many. Some people, the hardcore players, will still run them anyway for timed records and such. But having top legendary gear available from the beginning will bring us to the same situation we have now.

The idea of having top gear with different procs is an interesting one though. Man... having, for example, the choice of the same weapon with different procs would be fantastic.

[MetalForce]

I think the biggest thing that needs to happen to itemization is to RELEASE NEW GEAR!!! Srsly, how long is magma going to be top 41 legendary gear?

[Rare]

I think the biggest thing that needs to happen to itemization is to RELEASE NEW GEAR!!! Srsly, how long is magma going to be top 41 legendary gear?

You're missing the point of what I'm saying. If they just release new, better gear. That would be kind of silly imo.

Again, let's think about it this way. What happens at the end of an expansion when people know a new expansion and new gear are coming?

Most people get bored because the current items have no value. They usually move on to pvp or go inactive from playing.

Now, introducing new better gear mid season will have this same effect. It might not right now, this season. But once the precedence is set, people will follow these same paths next season.