Juking/Running - A tactical, not a cheap move.

**ProSophist** · 01-07-2011, 01:20 AM

I decided to make this post due to a large population of the pvp community, including a handful of good ones, grumbling about running and often confusing it with juking.

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with the term "juking," it's basically of way of tricking your opponent into making
a mistake.

For example, two birds charging at each other. One of the birds would get close enough and back off as soon as he is in range of break armor/repulse/blinding shot in order to prevent himself from getting hit. Therefore leaving the opponent vulnerable from the 12-yard range.

Now that I've explained its meaning, I want to share my insights.

PvP should be a a game of tactic and wit. It saddens me that the majority of PL PvPers, including a lot of good ones(which I wont name) are under the impression that PvP is all about who can mash their buttons the fastest, which to some extent is true. However, adding a little variety or tactic in your gameplay shouldn't make you cheap or a noob.

For example, we all know that full void bird would not kill a decently skilled full rift pally in one burst for the most part. Once the bird casts all his skills, he will be left with nothing to defend himself. On the other hand, the pally would be left with tons of armor, a healing skill, and mana shield, with a capable one-hit combo.

However, most pallies in this situation would expect the bird to somehow stand still and not "run" so they can beat you to death? It's ludicrous.

The first thing I would want to do if all my skills were on CD is to kite my opponent and keep him away from me as much as possible. But somehow, this is viewed as a cheap move.

PL has a very limited PvP mechanic. It's rapidly becoming a first-person shooting game where you shoot all your bullets at the first enemy you see and hope he dies before you run out of bullets. It involves very little skill and when you do add a little tactic that is commonly used in most PvP, you are instantly considered cheap or a noob.

Just sharing my thoughts. Let me know what you think.

**Greek** · 01-07-2011, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by ProSophist

I decided to make this post due to a large population of the pvp community, including a handful of good ones, grumbling about running and often confusing it with juking.

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with the term "juking," it's basically of way of tricking your opponent into making
a mistake.

For example, two birds charging at each other. One of the birds would get close enough and back off as soon as he is in range of break armor/repulse/blinding shot in order to prevent himself from getting hit. Therefore leaving the opponent vulnerable from the 12-yard range.

Now that I've explained its meaning, I want to share my insights.

PvP should be a a game of tactic and wit. It saddens me that the majority of PL PvPers, including a lot of good ones(which I wont name) are under the impression that PvP is all about who can mash their buttons the fastest, which to some extent is true. However, adding a little variety or tactic in your gameplay shouldn't make you cheap or a noob.

For example, we all know that full void bird would not kill a decently skilled full rift pally in one burst for the most part. Once the bird casts all his skills, he will be left with nothing to defend himself. On the other hand, the pally would be left with tons of armor, a healing skill, and mana shield, with a capable one-hit combo.

However, most pallies in this situation would expect the bird to somehow stand still and not "run" so they can beat you to death? It's ludicrous.

The first thing I would want to do if all my skills were on CD is to kite my opponent and keep him away from me as much as possible. But somehow, this is viewed as a cheap move.

PL has a very limited PvP mechanic. It's rapidly becoming a first-person shooting game where you shoot all your bullets at the first enemy you see and hope he dies before you run out of bullets. It involves very little skill and when you do add a little tactic that is commonly used in most PvP, you are instantly considered cheap or a noob.

Just sharing my thoughts. Let me know what you think.

I do agree with this, just like alot of pvp games, movement is a big part to it.

Its very true with the Dex Bird vs Pally Matchups. I play both, I DO think that birds can kill a pally in one combo when Blessings isnt on and their fast enough.

I remember one game I was useing a Pally and fighting Smokester ( I dont give him enough credit, hes actually a smart bird) useing Repulse shot to keep me back and have me waste my combo, and he knows his 12m distance VERY well so he will always be quicker. Its actually very effective becuase Blessings has a 12 second timer once its activated. If your fast enough u can use Repulse shot to keep the pally back so Blessing runs out and thats like +30 armor gone right there so u can combo the pally.

Also Repulse has a 7.5 second recharge time. So after you hit the pally with Repulse, you look at the recharge time of ur skill. When Repulse is fully charged again, Blessing should be gone on the pally, and once that happens, GOOD GAME.

(edited- for the record i think Dex Birds are much more fun to play then Pally's : ] )

**TwinkTastical** · 01-07-2011, 01:41 AM

Juking is a skill.

**Ladylove** · 01-07-2011, 02:58 AM

I won't go into it, but I don't care for running. I've just learned to not attack right away. Just let them waste their chance to escape. I usually manage to trap them anyway with a frostbite which is one of the only skills I'll go ahead and cast when approaching a bird because I know he/she is just going to turn around and run from me. Just let them lose their defenses on their own and go in for the kill

**ProSophist** · 01-07-2011, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Greek

I do agree with this, just like alot of pvp games, movement is a big part to it.

Its very true with the Dex Bird vs Pally Matchups. I play both, I DO think that birds can kill a pally in one combo when Blessings isnt on and their fast enough.

I remember one game I was useing a Pally and fighting Smokester ( I dont give him enough credit, hes actually a smart bird) useing Repulse shot to keep me back and have me waste my combo, and he knows his 12m distance VERY well so he will always be quicker. Its actually very effective becuase Blessings has a 12 second timer once its activated. If your fast enough u can use Repulse shot to keep the pally back so Blessing runs out and thats like +30 armor gone right there so u can combo the pally.

Also Repulse has a 7.5 second recharge time. So after you hit the pally with Repulse, you look at the recharge time of ur skill. When Repulse is fully charged again, Blessing should be gone on the pally, and once that happens, GOOD GAME.

(edited- for the record i think Dex Birds are much more fun to play then Pally's : ] )

Well a smart bird would never go toe-to-toe with a pally with full buffs since you wont be able to kill him. The smart thing to do is to repulse/root him away from that 12-yrd range and then attack when the initial buffs are gone. Sadly, this brings me to my point of this tactic being viewed as cheap.

And more people are probably going to agree with me here in the forums but I know people know that a lot of people are still being hypocritical about this.

**Falcomist** · 01-07-2011, 08:54 PM

THANK YOU for posting this! PvP needs tactics to not just straight out PvP. I run to make little girls cry(sigkill).

**Pharcyde** · 01-07-2011, 10:26 PM

I agree with you 100% falcomist. Its part of the game on a level. The only time I see juking as rude PvP etiquette is 1v1's. Who are you trying to save your hp from? your 1v1 partner? Its just plain rude. In team matches tho, its how birds survive and required if a bird wants more than one-two kills a spawn. Just my two cents.

**ProSophist** · 01-07-2011, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Pharcyde

I agree with you 100% falcomist. Its part of the game on a level. The only time I see juking as rude PvP etiquette is 1v1's. Who are you trying to save your hp from? your 1v1 partner? Its just plain rude. In team matches tho, its how birds survive and required if a bird wants more than one-two kills a spawn. Just my two cents.

That still depends on what type of 1v1 you are playing.
Some like the full HP/CDs every match. Where you wait till each player has full HP and all skills available every single round.

However, there's also the go-all-out type of gameplay where people don't care if you just lost majority of your HP and just blew just your skills from the previous match. Here is when running/nuking SHOULD BE A 100% ACCEPTABLE.

If a newly respawn opponent is coming at me, I should be able to at least do everything in my power to make it an even fight on my part. Like I would want at least half health and have all my skills available.

Running away from your opponent because you have 10% and not having any skill available shouldn't be considered cheap. I'd say it's a pretty smart tactic.

**Kingofhurtz** · 01-08-2011, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Pharcyde

I agree with you 100% falcomist. Its part of the game on a level. The only time I see juking as rude PvP etiquette is 1v1's. Who are you trying to save your hp from? your 1v1 partner? Its just plain rude. In team matches tho, its how birds survive and required if a bird wants more than one-two kills a spawn. Just my two cents.

Maybe I should start doing this...

**bladesword** · 01-08-2011, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by falcomist

thank you for posting this! Pvp needs tactics to not just straight out pvp. I run to make little girls cry(sigkill).

i thought running ended during ao2? Omg

**XghostzX** · 01-08-2011, 10:31 AM

I really like this thread, thanks for posting this proSophist. I also agree with falcomist (sigkill has some social issues...) but backing off can be a very useful skill in PvP. I play as a pure mage using a staff and we're known as "Squishy". Periodically, I used this tactic when i 1 v 1 with like falcompunch. He only beat me 10-8, really close game. Same as kingofhurtz. You're strtegy was really good when i was playing 1 v 1 with you. You'd attack me and take out my shield, step back, and come in for the kill. Didn't work everytime, but it did mean i had to adjust. 10-7 king ur getting really good

**juhnken773** · 01-09-2011, 12:56 AM

Lol! If only everyone agreed.

This applys to all lvl of pvp.

So ppl respect my twink pvp style but at times so accuse me of winning because I "ran" away.
Funny thing is, I never run in pvp match. I never move away 10m from the starting point.

**Kindread** · 01-20-2011, 07:51 PM

Hi guys,

I've never PvP'ed in PL before and have just been busy developing my character and gear. Now that I've hit 50 and collected every desirable item and item set out there, I've run out fun goals to reach so I'm looking to try my hand (or wing) at PvP. Now, I never do anything half-assed so I've spent a lot of time reading up on this forum category. What I've noticed is there seems to be a honor code or etiquette that is shared by the elite of the PvPers and those that don't follow it are cowards or noobs. Can anyone point me to a thread that might explain propert PvP etiquette? I'll confess to being a PvP Noob but I'd rather not start out by ruining my reputation on the get go.

I'm not new to PvP. I was pretty good on WoW and I ruled the world on text MUDs like Achaea where we coded combat systems to react to the game. I'd like to learn the PvP mechanics for PL. I'm not too concerned about stats and kill/death ratios. Those are too easily manipulated to mean anything. I'd rather earn in game respect and have forum people like you good folks recognize me. Anyways, I suppose I won't find much play at level 50 so ill have to work on my alts. Anyhow, I could use a pointer on etiquette and any tips you guys would be willing to share. And yeah, I'm Asian, but of the US type and not the gold farmer type.

--- Kindread

**ProSophist** · 01-20-2011, 08:51 PM

PL PvP is not as complicated as you might think. I too used to PvP heavily on WoW and it's not even close in terms of difficulty.

PvP here is pretty much all about practice. You would probably die a lot on your first few tries and the most important thing is learning the pattern of how other people play, depending on class.

Range has the biggest impact as far as I'm concerned. You have to out-cast your opponent and kill him before he kills you, so knowing your 12/9/etc-yrd range would help you improve fast.

One more important thing is combo. You'll have to setup different combos for different players, depending on their class, spec, and playstyle.

Like I said, just familiarize yourself on how people play since there's not a lot of variety to it so you'll eventually figure things out.

Finally, welcome to the community and hope to see you around.

**XghostzX** · 01-20-2011, 10:19 PM

Haha pro good fite u owned me for a while almost wanted to be dex mage--i knew after a while id come threw in the endn lol

**ProSophist** · 01-20-2011, 10:49 PM

I knew you would. I had a blast as well

**Zerious** · 01-21-2011, 03:55 PM

Juking - Not an easy tactic to pull off at all, depending on your ping and your opponent's ping, juking can be pretty difficult at times. I use this tactic against a lot of opponents. It's is definitely not cheap

Running- much easier than juking, but if you know when to run during a fight, it can prove deadly (it's juking without your opponent making a mistake :P) If you're beeing ran from, don't chase unless you're ranged. Melee pvpers need to run the opposite way to take as little damage as possible; play your opponent's game. If you can time when they come and rush you again, you can bushido them, and likely kill them (why would they run if they could tank you?)