We will never get buffed in pvp. :(

[kinzmet]

Hey guys. I'd love to hear your suggestions on this. What kind of buffs would you add to mages in PvP to help them along a bit? Let's keep the discussion constructive and productive and It'll give me something concrete to pass along to the devs. Just a simple "Buff mages" is a little vague to act on. What do those little blue guys need to give them a fighting chance?

Thanks rem, I'm glad that you always listen.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Better heal (Our heal barely fill 50% of our health and have a Regrowth upgrade with hilarious 10 health healed per ticks for 10 seconds duration).
2. Shorter Heal cooldown.
3. Shorter Shield cooldown and better damage absorption.
4. Increase armor around 5 to 10% or make it equal to rogue.
5. Better Debuff upgrades or skills. (Our only effective debuffs were Scorch in fireball, Lower dodge in Time-shift and Words of weakening on Curse).
6. Increase a bit of health increase per INT, because we have so small health that a rogue even 1 hits us.
7. A signature skill that can turn-the-tides. (like Vengeful Blood for warrior and Aimed shot for rogues)
8. By definition Wizards uses elements and Sorcerer uses magical energies to do magic. We are named Sorcerer but we are actually doing a wizard's thing. How about using Essences like the fire essence for a charged Fireball to make it more powerful or make a whole new skill that consumes essences for more powerful damage (just throwing ideas here).



Well the first 6 suggestions were from PVP experience and the rest was additional. Thanks for noticing this thread rem, more power to STS group and thanks for the game.

[will0]

1. Shield should should grant buff/debuff (reduce crit / increase hp temporarily also increase dodge / heals caster like bulwark) also reduce CD time
2. lightning strike should crit more often (same as aim shot), PVE light at AOE do not happen often on high level mobs ... AOE only activates when the mobs are dying ..... which is never on tindrin or elite maps
3. FB Stun last longer and debuff warrior and rogues buff skills (crit / strength)
4. Ice should root enemies in PVP and increase DOT damage on enemies
5. charging heal should heal group in full point not half, regen heal should be more % per tick, mage heal is the worst amongst all the class which is a joke as a sorcerer (heal should grants some kind of debuff)

[Omisace]

With skill swapping fixed we are even more vulnerable in pvp. Our skills make it really hard to consider us as a support class as most of our debuffs are nerfed in PvP and our heal being a joke if not for the mana heal for them rogues. We have like an amazing set of skills on paper that somehow made StS think "We should nerf these squishy smurfs even more in pvp cause if we don't it would make them mildly overpowered". Also, what made these rich dudes think mages are surviving at lvl 41 is the Elondrian gun. Are you saying that i have to buy a mythic weapon just to stand a chance against legendary warriors/rogues? Wow so fair.....such balance. As for the specific points that we want to be changed:

1. Heal - warriors and rogues are healing much more hp than we do. Yes we have mana heal but why do we have to compensate with less hp heal than others? Our skill name should be renamed
"Managiver" IMO.
2. Debuffs - you think our mob control skills are too OP in PvP and not feel the same way for the 2 other classes' OP strengths in PvP (Rogue AS and warrior HP+Armor). While rogues are doing
more damage with their crit and warriors surviving longer with their hp, armor and skills in both PvE and PvP we mages are feeling left out. Why can't we keep our debuffs (even in a less nerfed
way). Even with the class nerf in PvP it didn't stop these two from being unstoppable, it just goes to show how bad the situation really is for us.
3. Im too lazy to go on but you get my point guys with the above examples.

[Madnex]

Even if you added the roots from ice and clock, roots don't stack over stuns thanks to the 7.5-second stun immunity so you wouldn't be getting anywhere. We're already having complaints about stunlocks again with mages combining Fireball with Slag's terrify or Sam's panic. Countersuggestion, give mages 10% speed buff in PvP to make up for the loss of roots/stun stack-ability which is what mages were designed to be based on, when the skills were designed for PvE.

Suggesting that mages get the same crit and armor as rogues would make them overpowered -- obviously -- since their strengths and tild-turning points are the infinite mana and the certain AoE Fireball stun. They are already just 10% crit behind rogues with the right pets. More armor should come from gear like wild talisman which requires giving up something else like damage, crit or potentially even mana with a passives overhaul.

Moving on, healing cannot be compared with Rogue's in terms of % healed since the first is single target (and has to be picked up) and the second is again AoE which can potentially replenish a whole team's both HP and MP to maximum if charged. What would be nice is if we could buff the healing over time or add some sort of HP leeching effect if one or more opponents are in the healing range. Maybe a 20% chance to deploy invulnerability shield when casted for one second.

Lastly, my other suggestion is to enable a 100% push proc upgrade on charged Fireball which will push the targets a reasonable distance back while retaining the stun effects. This should be allowed to stack indefinitely to create an efficient way for mages to push rogues away from their medic packs and keep the distance needed to shoot down warrior more safely.

[Saribeau]

Even if you added the roots from ice and clock, roots don't stack over stuns thanks to the 7.5-second stun immunity so you wouldn't be getting anywhere. We're already having complaints about stunlocks again with mages combining Fireball with Slag's terrify or Sam's panic. Countersuggestion, give mages 10% speed buff in PvP to make up for the loss of roots/stun stack-ability which is what mages were designed to be based on, when the skills were designed for PvE.

Suggesting that mages get the same crit and armor as rogues would make them overpowered -- obviously -- since their strengths and tild-turning points are the infinite mana and the certain AoE Fireball stun. They are already just 10% crit behind rogues with the right pets. More armor should come from gear like wild talisman which requires giving up something else like damage, crit or potentially even mana with a passives overhaul.

Moving on, healing cannot be compared with Rogue's in terms of % healed since the first is single target (and has to be picked up) and the second is again AoE which can potentially replenish a whole team's both HP and MP to maximum if charged. What would be nice is if we could buff the healing over time or add some sort of HP leeching effect if one or more opponents are in the healing range. Maybe a 20% chance to deploy invulnerability shield when casted for one second.

Lastly, my other suggestion is to enable a 100% push proc upgrade on charged Fireball which will push the targets a reasonable distance back while retaining the stun effects. This should be allowed to stack indefinitely to create an efficient way for mages to push rogues away from their medic packs and keep the distance needed to shoot down warrior more safely.

i like all u said. 1 upgrade to mages fixes the class. make them have the aimed shot upgrade of 10% crit after use
rogues have burst dmg. this is what makes them good. give mage burst dmg and then u have fixed mage class

[Grizzlis]

Even if you added the roots from ice and clock, roots don't stack over stuns thanks to the 7.5-second stun immunity so you wouldn't be getting anywhere. We're already having complaints about stunlocks again with mages combining Fireball with Slag's terrify or Sam's panic. Countersuggestion, give mages 10% speed buff in PvP to make up for the loss of roots/stun stack-ability which is what mages were designed to be based on, when the skills were designed for PvE.

Suggesting that mages get the same crit and armor as rogues would make them overpowered -- obviously -- since their strengths and tild-turning points are the infinite mana and the certain AoE Fireball stun. They are already just 10% crit behind rogues with the right pets. More armor should come from gear like wild talisman which requires giving up something else like damage, crit or potentially even mana with a passives overhaul.

Moving on, healing cannot be compared with Rogue's in terms of % healed since the first is single target (and has to be picked up) and the second is again AoE which can potentially replenish a whole team's both HP and MP to maximum if charged. What would be nice is if we could buff the healing over time or add some sort of HP leeching effect if one or more opponents are in the healing range. Maybe a 20% chance to deploy invulnerability shield when casted for one second.

Lastly, my other suggestion is to enable a 100% push proc upgrade on charged Fireball which will push the targets a reasonable distance back while retaining the stun effects. This should be allowed to stack indefinitely to create an efficient way for mages to push rogues away from their medic packs and keep the distance needed to shoot down warrior more safely.

Lol I like then player who dont play with mage, gives suggestions about mage buffs.
Imo push proc in fireball, would be bad. Just imagine u hit Fb and then have to catch rogue again, while your shield is running off. And lmao speed buff on mages? Are serious?
I want to see 2 mage buffs
1. No stun immunity when using mages skills. U use fireball 2 second stun, u use fireball again 2s stun
2. Stronger shield

[Grizzlis]

i like all u said. 1 upgrade to mages fixes the class. make them have the aimed shot upgrade of 10% crit after use
rogues have burst dmg. this is what makes them good. give mage burst dmg and then u have fixed mage class

We dont need other rogue class -.- we need real mage class, with exclusive skills.

[Madnex]

Lol I like then player who dont play with mage, gives suggestions about mage buffs.
Imo push proc in fireball, would be bad. Just imagine u hit Fb and then have to catch rogue again, while your shield is running off. And lmao speed buff on mages? Are serious?
I want to see 2 mage buffs
1. No stun immunity when using mages skills. U use fireball 2 second stun, u use fireball again 2s stun
2. Stronger shield

I guess you don't know but I own a maxed out mage(no ring), an almost maxed out rogue and a warrior I never run with.

Stun immunity was put there for a reason. If you want stronger shield, spec more STR in your build. You can't ask from STS to buff mages to make up for people's lack of the extra skill needed to play that particular class.

[Grizzlis]

I guess you don't know but I own a maxed out mage(no ring), an almost maxed out rogue and a warrior I never run with.

Stun immunity was put there for a reason. If you want stronger shield, spec more STR in your build. You can't ask from STS to buff mages to make up for people's lack of the extra skill needed to play that particular class.

Lmao we are talking about mages buff here, right? And you are saying that you can't ask STS to buff mages? Imo your all gave suggestion were total nonsense. Do a video there you own maxed rogue and tank in real 1v1. Btw If you put more points to strength, you won't do enough damage to kill tank or rogue without stunlock.

[Madnex]

Lmao we are talking about mages buff here, right? And you are saying that you can't ask STS to buff mages? Imo your all gave suggestion were total nonsense. Do a video there you own maxed rogue and tank in real 1v1. Btw If you put more points to strength, you won't do enough damage to kill tank or rogue without stunlock.

Look, I made my mage back in season 2 and have witnessed pvp with and without stun immunity. Without it, fb and charged weapon stun are OP.
Also, it would've helped if were actually reading my whole post because what I said was that you can't ask STS to buff mages altogether, from L1 to L41, just because certain people don't have the extra skill needed to play the class. You are probably included in that group.

Part two, it takes no luck to kill a rogue with gnarled myth gun and sam at L41. In fact, it can even happen without stunlock from AA because a crit combo of fb-light-ice (~30% crit atm) can one-combo any rogue with less than 3.8k HP -1.4k armor. Apart from certain tanks, the rest can definitely bite dust if you're using the right pvp spec, keep distance and know your combo timings. You can choose to increase STR in your spec without sacrificing too much damage by using defensive gear like talisman ammy or an HP ring with elon shards. But again, this is endgame and like I also mentioned, mages are doing absolutely fine there at the moment.

Pertaining the speed buff I suggested, let me explain. Increasing a mage's speed to 25% (using a mythic pet with speed buff) gives room for reaction; for example, when spotting an enemy in TDM by giving you the upper hand in throwing the first fireball stun or approaching fast enough to land a time shift afterwards on a stunned bunch of opponents (TS is great in PvP if used correctly). This way with a bit of practice you can always start with charged FB instead of shield and have real surviving chances, something that nearly doubles the effectiveness of the shield and your survivability alike.

I'd advise you to try actively playing the other classes before forming an opinion about how balanced the mage class is -- or is not -- in PvP because all I read from your post were extreme OP suggestions with no solid explanation. Like it's been pointed out countless times, you're looking at PvP from a 1v1 point of view, which is not how PvP was designed to be played (notice how both PvP maps are team vs team?).

[Saribeau]

Lmao we are talking about mages buff here, right? And you are saying that you can't ask STS to buff mages? Imo your all gave suggestion were total nonsense. Do a video there you own maxed rogue and tank in real 1v1. Btw If you put more points to strength, you won't do enough damage to kill tank or rogue without stunlock.

certain people don't have the extra skill needed to play the class.[/B]

ouch. gg

[Serancha]

Lol I like then player who dont play with mage, gives suggestions about mage buffs.

I guess you don't know but I own a maxed out mage(no ring), an almost maxed out rogue and a warrior I never run with.

Hilarious. This is the exact conversation Madnex and I had 6 months ago when he was an arrogant mage and didn't realize I played all classes equally. Funny when the shoe fits on the other foot, eh Aspy.

[Ebezaanec]

Buff the mages. I would love to see a unique skill for mages. the speed boost might be impaired by axe throw, but then again, not all wars have axe.

The only real challenge against a mage is a good Kershal user or a decent Elondrian Rifle user.

Give the hotshot rogues and arrogant tanks something to run from.

[Robhawk]

Hey guys. I'd love to hear your suggestions on this. What kind of buffs would you add to mages in PvP to help them along a bit? Let's keep the discussion constructive and productive and It'll give me something concrete to pass along to the devs. Just a simple "Buff mages" is a little vague to act on. What do those little blue guys need to give them a fighting chance?

Imho it is really easy to buff mages without affecting armor or damage or other "big things"

Decrease the shield cooldown to 20 seconds, it doesnt need anything more! Since warriors and rogues heal is FAR superior to the mages heal the shorter shield cooldown would equalize this and the time where we are just food for ANY ooponent is 10 seconds less. So with 20 seconds cooldown i should be able to be ready again before the rogue respawns n hunt me down without a chance of protection!

[MoloToha]

I don't play mage a lot (have one, made him for fun), but I can say certainly that they don't correspond to their stats. If you look at mage's stats, you will see the best damage and the lowest armor. But in fact, their damage output is barely higher than warrior's (if warrior specs with vb and 3 atk skills, he will be vb'd most of the time and have almost the same damage stat as mage, for example, I have 513, which is pretty close. Don't forget about 25% crit bonus, which practically makes skills' raw damage output even higher than mage's. Mage will exceed warrior only due to DoTs). They are good only for crowd control, nothing else. It's wrong, they should have the biggest raw damage output in the game (or have an ability to spec in that way). Also, their shield, their only hope in PvP, has pretty long cooldown, it should be reduced.

[Skeokateva]

I agree with most of the ppl promoting the shield buff/cool down. Also our heal the perks could be buffed to really be useful to player and/or team as is heals perks have very low hp/mama regen ability.

Fire ball is decent, maybe instead of low hit chance, make it a dodge buff, hit chance is difficult to see effectiveness.

Ice could use a short root/freeze 8n pvp as is say in ice's description.

Lightning has great crits at high lvl but low chance at low lvl, so may not need skill buff but could use crit addition to weapon proc for twink lvls.

Curse in theory sounds great but often misses or is easy to counter with war heal/ immunity, and has a pretty long cool down. With out having any big buffs to sorc curse is useless vs war.

Theres already a thread for wind's suggestions, but i always thought it would be great in a dot tornado form that debuffed enemy.

Clock just isn't for pvp, its great in pve.

Im not suggesting to change all skills to be buffed like this just to look into doing some as to not over power sorc class, which would cause rage amongst other classes.

[Robhawk]

20 second cool down is ridiculous and it will make the mage OP.

Which season were the mages OP? Was there ANY out of 7 ? Yes, No? NO !!!

Why shouldn't a rogue have a chance to kill you after you've just killed him? While your skill is on cool down, you should learn how to avoid the spawn locations (yes they're predictable), how to hide behind trees, troll and warriors.

Most fights versus rogues dont last longer then 5 or 6 seconds. I want to see you hiding 25 SECONDS from a good rogue - THIS WONT HAPPEN !!!

Your mage has most of the best end-game gear and you should not be having a problem with this.

In contrast to the PROOOOOOOOOO mages like Tongasmash (ROFL!) i DONT have an arcane ring AND the bigger issue i DONT HAVE A SAMAEL. A player with or without samael is 2 totaly different stories as you probably know!

You should be able to kill 90% of rogues in a 1v1.

See above -> You cant hide for 25 seconds from a rushing rogue! But yes i kill most of the rogues, except the obviously overgeared and some very skilled ones. F.e. Ladyswagger is a beast versus mages!

If the rogue only finds you with your shield on cool down only 50% of the time after respawning, then you come out ahead. However, you can do better than 50% by avoiding spawn locations and using the elements.

A good rogue will find you 90+% of the time when your shield is on cooldown! Why should that rogue be able to kill me just because a skill that also often fails (shieldbug lol) is on cooldown for years? The rogue has BAD SKILLS but the result in kills is nearly even at the end? LOL !! The rogue just needs to run for a mana pack after a fight and is ready again, TY !!!

I would suggest having multiple skills and changing them depending on the match. My point is that different skills are good for different matches and different opponents. You should give yourself the option to adapt to most situations.

Well nothin more to say on this then DITO! Only a bad skilled player has only 1 skill setup !!!

[falmear]

1) Increase the duration of shield to 30 seconds. Having a 15 second shield and a 30 second cool down is ridiculous. Rogues can break shield and shield only reduces damage by 45% max. Without shield mages just get one shot. Rogues shouldn't get a free kill just because your shield is down. We can beat rogues based on skill but they can beat us because every 15 seconds our shield goes down? Remove the knockback upgrade from shield no one uses this and replace it with something useful.
2) Unnerf skills in PvP so things like ice freeze, time shift roots, wind does a knock back.

3) Change the upgrade on some mage spells so they have a purpose, many upgrade are useless in PvP and PvE. Force some kind of choice, specialization and variation. You can also add some choice in terms of negatives. Longer shield duration could mean less damage reduction. Etc.

4) Change curse so its more effective against non-DOT damage. The amount of damage reflected is very low on non-DOT damage. Even as a mage I speced out all DOT damage upgrades on my skills just so I can continue to spam my attacks and ignore curse.

5) Improve the self heal component of life giver, right now its garbage. If I spec more str to give me more health it drops my damage and recovers less health. I'm already being disadvantaged by doing less damage. Life giver is really only useful for recovering mana for other classes. Having a virtual unlimited mana pool is of no advantage for mages.

These are just a few suggestions and by no means perfect. Other MMOs allow mages to freeze your opponent, stun lock them, have a shield absorb 100% damage for more then 2 seconds and still find a balance among more then 3 classes. This is why I stopped playing this game because PvP doesn't interest me when people can just kill you because you nerfed our skills, added stun immunity (another nerf) and give us 15 seconds of where we can be 1 shot killed. Anyways, seen this kind of threads before much to do about nothing.

[Robhawk]

Well said falmear.

[Instanthumor]

Hey guys. I'd love to hear your suggestions on this. What kind of buffs would you add to mages in PvP to help them along a bit? Let's keep the discussion constructive and productive and It'll give me something concrete to pass along to the devs. Just a simple "Buff mages" is a little vague to act on. What do those little blue guys need to give them a fighting chance?

Everyone's suggestions affect balance at both twink level and endgame level. Since this thread is supposed to be "buff mages at twink", I'll give my part of the feedback. First of all, mages overall are ridiculously underpowered. Instead of buffing skills, I think mage gear/equipment should get a slight buff at levels ~16 and under (the higher the level, the more powerful mages get). Give Ancient Druid gear slight armor bonus, slight damage bonus, and if possible, a little crit wouldn't hurt. Lightning is supposed to be mage's #1 offensive skill, but it is impossible at twink. Mages here have ~1-2% crit and that is pathetic. The only way mages have the opportunity to achieve more crit is to use a certain pet, but that pet also has negative points in a mage's game if you understand what I'm saying. There's too much to lose than to gain in this sense. The only reason mages exist is curse (only usable in clashes). Like endgame, mages should have the chance to compete against other classes. I don't play mage at twink levels because I see they are underpowered, and have observed. I'm sure this won't be on your top priority list, but just food for thought. Thank you for replying Remiem.

@Robhawk
Take a chill pill. Shinytoy knows what he is doing and he is knowledgeable.