Replayability?

[Tsarra]

So, in addition to PL and other games, both on and offline, I play on a MUD. A MUD is a multi-user dungeon...basically this without the pictures and blisters on your thumbs. At any rate, we only really have one or two huge quests for the topmost characters, and not as wide a variety of equipment as PL (we probably have about 200 pieces of EQ that anyone would actually want)...so when you get to the top, you basically have two options. You can continue to rack up gold and bank it away for auctions (sound familiar?) OR you can remort.

Remorting is what I want to suggest for PL, or something like it. Basically, you can start over at Level 1 if you so choose. You keep all of your equipment...of course, you can't exactly use it until you meet its level requirements again. The trade off for starting over is a special ability or bonus that would be applied to your character for the second (or subsequent) round. Some of them are things like abilities that cut the mana cost of spells in half or bestow a health and mana bonus upon killing a mob. Another increases the duration of your skills by 50%, and perhaps another affords a bonus to some or other statistic. Anyway, I think this would give people reason enough to play through the lower levels again and come up with new strategies and new combinations of skills and abilities. There might even be "remort-only" equipment. And when they climb back up to Level 50, they could stay and farm and quest or head on back to Level 1 again, picking up another ability in the process. The game I play on limits you to 5 such passes like this, and people have been playing there for years.

Anyway, thanks for reading!

[Lesrider]

Interesting concept, since a lot of people already keep starting new characters without reaping any benefits from it.
Sounds promising.

[asommers]

I'll add it to the list of things to discuss.

-ALS

[superglut2]

Sounds cool

[Tsarra]

Sweet! Here's a few ideas (sort of borrowed from my MUD and converted to PL framework) in no particular order. Some of the ones we have don't make a bit of sense here, so I've added a few of my own as well.

Rebirth: More life/mana on respawn (since we don't really have a death penalty)
Luck: Improved base critical chance
Conserve: Skills cost less mana
Improved Study: Skills could maybe be practiced an extra point (game balance concerns abound, I'm sure)
Lifelink: A small amount of HP and mana are returned to you when you kill a mob
Longevity: Skills or spells you cast have a longer effect
Treasure Hunter: Improved item drop rate
Prospector: Improved gold drop rate

We have about 10 to pick from, so you really have to choose carefully; you can only get about half of them. It definitely makes you think about your play-style and what is really important to you and your character. Now, would I like to see this more than, say, some sort of item crafting system? Not sure. But I do know that I absolutely adore PL and whatever happens to keep us busy in the endgame will probably end up being a lot of fun.

Thanks again!

[Ellyidol]

I'd love this. Levelling up in PL was definitely fun, but after you've maxed 3, there's no real point to anymore.

I hope the new reborn abilities would be good though! Especially when I read improved gold drop rate, there's a farming character I'd level up over and over again, who knows how long that'd take.

As for upgrading Tsarra, click my sig, been trying to compile ideas but there haven't been any recent ones.

I for one would be VERY excited if PL did decide to do something like this.

[Baked-Potato]

Reminds me of Prestiging on COD XD.

Anywho, on topic, I love this idea for PL! Could add a lot more combinations to characters instead of Dual-Specing and what-not.

[Tsarra]

I bet a lot of people would. I've been lurking on the forums for a couple of weeks, and the higher level players have done it all. They want something else to do. This is something else. :P Plus, it can probably be done with the existing framework. No crazy systems to be added...just a little bit of coding and maybe a few new pinks. Not like the thread I read on cooking. That would be a coding nightmare!

I will read that 5 pages of thread here in a bit...though my ideas around upgrading equipment don't extend much beyond mining gems or crystals and then embedding them into your existing equipment after paying exorbitant amounts of gold for the opportunity. Anything I can do to squeak another 3 M/s out of something gets a vote in my book.

[Tsarra]

I just thought of a cool name for this: Phoenix Abilities.

[Kujen]

I like this idea, but you can get to lvl 50 so fast in this game..even if you play it as intended and not powerlevel. But that's what I'm afraid would happen...people will just powerlevel through it to get the special rewards.

[Tsarra]

That could possibly be mitigated by special rare item drops or a few quests only accessible to Phoenix characters...that'll get 'em to slow down. The whole point would be to get people to appreciate the journey to Level 50 rather than just getting there. Also, no special reward until you return to Level 1.

[Arterra]

I like this idea, but you can get to lvl 50 so fast in this game..even if you play it as intended and not powerlevel. But that's what I'm afraid would happen...people will just powerlevel through it to get the special rewards.

true.... i LOVE this idea, since i like earlt content anyways, but that is a problem.

solutions?
1)exp needed for next level dramatically increases after remort: imagine lv45-50 from 30 onwards. harsh, but could drastically make it suc for those not serious.
2) requires a set amount of "battle experience" which means more than, say, 7.5k kills? maybe depends on class, or how you leveled. str characters (not only bears) have a harder time. basically it will make a new form of power-leveling (powerkilling) but every layer we add we make it less worth it.
3)the character must have played in every single map made so far, including elite dungeons and boss brawls.
4) the character must have been within loot range (as in battle with) every boss in order to do it, maybe even spawning bosses.
5)etc. let it be HELL for those quick gamers.
6)once you remort, you develop a "sense of justice, and wisdom" so that you simply CANNOT enter dungeons above your level range. i promise you, if all else fails, that will kill all powerlevelers.

edits:

maybe even make it so that if you have too many deaths, the character cannot remort (though for first 5 days, dont include this, since those of us who where first to ao3 will suffer for that. give the chance for us to move on before the lock)

[Lesrider]

Ick I don't want to be forced to buy FN and Skellerkrunch if I have no intention of ever using them. Force people to buy all the maps that are necessary for leveling without leeching. That sounds more fair to me. FN and skeller were always extras, should stay that way IMO.

[Arterra]

Ick I don't want to be forced to buy FN and Skellerkrunch if I have no intention of ever using them. Force people to buy all the maps that are necessary for leveling without leeching. That sounds more fair to me. FN and skeller were always extras, should stay that way IMO.

well, consider it elite status in the game. if you get to cap level and want to continue, shouldn't you have everything anyways? if they remorting worth it, they can make sure everyone buys everything (not bad anyway) and so get some more cash for updates xD
as for bonus maps... it is a lv cap bonus replayability. bonus for bonus.

edit: i guess skeller extra, but to make sure they are real players they need to pass FN.

[Kujen]

Your 6th solution would be perfect to prevent most powerlevelers. If the whole idea of this is to appreciate the journey as Tsarra said, it is a great idea to make it where you cannot enter dungeons that are too high for you. Tho a lot of times someone can just have their level 50 friend do all the killing for them in their "normal level range" maps. But if the exp is slower, like solution #1, it will discourage that as well. Maybe even make it where these players cannot buy experience elixirs.

The one thing I disagree with is the "too many deaths" thing. I think a lot of powerlevelers have low deaths because everyone else does the work for them. My bear has a lot of deaths because I've always tried to do my job, tanking. And before level 50 and rift gear, I died a lot!

[Arterra]

The one thing I disagree with is the "too many deaths" thing. I think a lot of powerlevelers have low deaths because everyone else does the work for them. My bear has a lot of deaths because I've always tried to do my job, tanking. And before level 50 and rift gear, I died a lot!

agree, i too have lots of deaths (damn you original ao3!!) but i was trying out every reason in the book to get people to accept this awesome idea lol
the deaths part doesnt make sense for the people we are trying to get rid of, accepted.

[Tsarra]

I like this solution...it's elegant. Keeping low level characters out of these higher level dungeons after their first playthrough would definitely nip plvling in the bud. There might be another way to do it that doesn't restrict people so much, though...I would have no issue with a Level 8 or 9 in Balefort, for example, if they were holding their own. I favor the increased experience answer, but it doesn't completely mitigate the issue either. The other game I play on deals with this by scaling experience logarithmically for those lower level characters, based on the other players in the party. This way, a lower-level character teamed up with a high level character gets a fair shake of experience. Basing things off of a number of actual kills might not be an ideal situation either...at least it's direct, but it screws the bear and the bird a bit.

[Arterra]

I like this solution...it's elegant. Keeping low level characters out of these higher level dungeons after their first playthrough would definitely nip plvling in the bud. There might be another way to do it that doesn't restrict people so much, though...I would have no issue with a Level 8 or 9 in Balefort, for example, if they were holding their own.

sort of agree, there may be some leeway in terms being able to go into dungeons directly above your level range, like FH level range can go into Balefort, lost expedition to ao1... just worried with powerleveling right at crush keeper, or how i like to help an alt every so often, at plasma pyramid. with a powerful mage you can destroy everything in the pyramid, and there isnt even a djin to slow you down. need restrictions... maybe instead of just stay in level range, in area range? until 25, you cannot go past ForestH/DarkF/BaleF, until 35 you cannot pass FathomC/LostE/Swamps. I like that, since you cannot just skip swamps anymore. even better, just make skeller not give exp. for remolten (too much?)

I favor the increased experience answer, but it doesn't completely mitigate the issue either. The other game I play on deals with this by scaling experience logarithmically for those lower level characters, based on the other players in the party. This way, a lower-level character teamed up with a high level character gets a fair shake of experience.

awesome idea! even works as a system before the remolt.

Basing things off of a number of actual kills might not be an ideal situation either...at least it's direct, but it screws the bear and the bird a bit.

like said, make an equation that determines with what class and main stat you used to measure correct kill #. or even better, just leave it at numbers for each class, so that they try more builds with that character (like int for mob killing aoe staff) and get more experience.

[Tsarra]

So far, the only thing I've found that Skeller is good for is cheering me up after hours of farming Sarcophagus empty handed. :P At least I can pretend those are good pinks and purples that are dropping. Plasma Pyramid has a similar effect, except I actually get experience there and sometimes the pinks are okayish.

Edit: On topic, of course, I'm sure low level characters in high level areas is something PL has been dealing with for a long time. I imagine that any solution STS comes up with would have be flexible, and should probably be implemented for ALL characters, both remorted or no.

[Arterra]

The problem with restricting everything is that PL doesnt want to infringe upon the casual player. If he wants to play there, let him! But that is why this system offers hope. If remorted then you simply cannot. If you chose to remort, you chose to take on these restrictions. Problem solved.