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Thread: Guide to Advanced Mechanics in PL: DPS, Crits, etc.

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    Default Guide to Advanced Mechanics in PL: DPS, Crits, etc.


    Guide to Advanced Mechanics in PL: DPS, Crits, etc.
    by Physiologic

    Check out my other Pocket Legends guides:
    How Drop Rates Work (Simplified) and the Factor of Luck Elixirs
    Post-Global Cooldown (GCD) Video Runs at Balefort Sewers
    In-Depth Guide to Farming Balefort Sewers
    Comprehensive Archer Skills and Equipment Guide
    Complete Lv 55 Archer Gear List
    Pocket Legends Enemy, Boss, and NPC Compendium
    How to Craft Lv 55 Gear
    How to calculate your attributes using STR, DEX, and INT
    Ring List
    Guide to Advanced Mechanics in PL: DPS, Crits, etc.
    Void Set versus Sentinel equips: An Unbiased Analysis
    In-Depth Guide to Farming Alien Oasis 3: Victory Lap

    Check out my other Star Legends guides:
    Star Legends General Attributes (STR, DEX, INT) Guide
    Prefix/Suffix Compendium for Weapons and Armors
    Lv 20-21 Operative Weapons and Equips

    Table of Contents
    I. Introduction
    II. How to Calculate Your Attributes using STR/DEX/INT
    III. How DPS Works
    IV. How Crits Work
    V. Enemy Armor and Affected Damage
    VI. The Effect and Extent of Damage Multipliers (Combos)
    VII. "I have a hit% of 135, why do I miss?"
    VIII. The Search for a Crit Cap
    IX. The Difference Between Damage and DPS, and Which To Choose
    X. Hidden Weapon Skills aka Procs
    XI. "My skill has a range of 8m...what does this mean, and how far exactly is 8m (8 meters) in this game?"
    XII. Algorithm for a Successful or Failed Attack
    XIII. Thx and Revision History


    I. Introduction

    Here's a long, boring guide of how certain mechanics work such as DPS, critical damage, and damage multipliers (or combos).

    Word of Caution: This guide is not for the casual player. I created this guide for those interested in specific game mechanics. Thus, there are a lot of calculations and methodology involved. Many of these things may already be known but I like to test and prove theories through exact methods. If there are more things I can add, or if there's something you wish to know, do not hesitate to ask.

    II. How to Calculate Your Attributes Using STR/DEX/INT


    A very underused but awesome guide in this forum is Eleanor's Enchantress Attributes Guide. The spreadsheet located in that guide shows how much each point of STR, DEX, or INT does to your attribute values, namely hit%, crit, dodge, health, h/s, mana, m/s, damage, DPS, and armor.

    These formulas are the accumulation of Eleanor's work and should be precise with an occasional deviating value of -1/+1 (especially in damage and DPS). Basically, just plug in STR, DEX, and INT numbers as well as the other attributes your armor/weapon gives to determine what your stats will look like.

    Decimal values are not rounded. For example, 6.88 = 6

    STR = STR from attributes + total STR from equips
    DEX = DEX from attributes + total DEX from equips
    INT = INT from attributes + total INT from equips

    Hit% = 66.49 + ((DEX-1) x 0.16) + ((INT-6) x 0.1) + Hit% from equips

    Crit = 1.73 + (STR x 0.03) + ((DEX-1) x 0.032) + ((INT-6) x 0.02) + Crit from equips

    Dodge = 1.575 + (STR x 0.025) + ((DEX-1) x 0.0125) + ((INT-6) x 0.005) + Dodge from equips

    H/s = 0.76 + (STR x 0.02) + ((DEX-1) x 0.01) + ((INT-6) x 0.005) + H/s from equips

    M/s = 0.78 + (INT x 0.02) + M/s from equips

    Damage = 8.35-14.35 + (STR x 0.02) + ((DEX-1) x 0.15) + ((INT-6) x 0.08) + Damage from equips

    DPS = 9.55 + (STR x 0.0167) + ((DEX-1) x 0.125) + ((INT-6) x 0.067) + (Damage from equips / weapon speed)

    Notes:
    1. Health pool, Mana pool, and Armor have been excluded.
    2. The first number in each calculation is derived from a Mage with beginning stats of 1 STR, 2 DEX, and 7 INT. 1 DEX and 6 INT are subtracted whenever those stats are presented in each calculation to achieve a more precise scale.


    III. How DPS Works

    Here's a simple calculation to figure out how DPS is derived using only 2 factors, damage and weapon speed, and to confirm what weapon speed really means.

    Here's a comparative table listing the current end-game equipment for archers, which I will use in my DPS calculation example. My assumption is that weapon speed is measured in units of seconds.


    VOID (Mega Blaster + Wraith + Jacob's Void)
    damage: 180-225, dps: 202, speed: 1.0
    (180+225) / 2 = 202.5 average per hit
    speed of 1.0 means you will hit every 1 second
    for 60 seconds, you will do 60 hits
    total of average 60x202.5 or 12,150 damage will be dealt in 60 seconds
    DPS = 12,150/60 = 202.5

    Calculated DPS matches DPS shown on screen. Now let's do several calculations with 0.6 speed weapons.

    SENT SLICE (Sentinel Helmet + Sentinel Armor + Shadow Slicers)
    damage: 154-172, dps: 272, speed: 0.6
    (154+172) / 2 = 163 average damage per hit
    speed of 0.6 means you will hit every 0.6 seconds
    for 60 seconds you will do 60/0.6 or 100 hits
    total of average 100x163 or 16,300 damage will be dealt in 60 seconds
    DPS = 16,300/60 = 271.67

    SENT TAL (Sentinel Helmet + Sentinel Armor + Sentinel Talon + Sentinel Wing)
    damage: 134-141, dps: 229, speed: 0.6
    (134+141) / 2 = 137.5 average damage per hit
    speed of 0.6 means you will hit every 0.6 seconds
    for 60 seconds you will do 60/0.6 for 100 hits
    total of average 100x137.5 or 13,750 damage will be dealt in 60 seconds
    DPS = 13,740/60 = 229.167

    Once again, DPS matches. This confirms that weapon speed does indeed carry the unit of "seconds."

    When we calculate the Sunblessed set, the speed of 0.9 is actually rounded up. In actuality the bow speed is 0.85.

    SUNBLESS (Overlord's Void + Wraith + Sunblessed Bow)
    damage: 195-240, dps: 256, speed: 0.85
    (195+240) / 2 = 217.5 average damage per hit
    speed of 0.85 means you will hit every 0.85 seconds
    for 60 seconds, you will do 60/0.85 or 70.59 hits
    total of average 70.59x217.5 or 15,325.941 damage will be dealt in 60 seconds
    DPS = 15,352.941/60 = 255.88

    IV. How Crits Work

    In this section we will explore what "critically" hitting means. What does the "crit" stat stand for? Is it a set percentage? How much more damage do you do if you critically hit an enemy?

    To find out, we will attempt to hit enemies 100 times total and record the outcome of per attempted hit (skip down to conclusion if you don't want to see numeration) - first without the archer skill Focus, then with it.

    Void set, Without Focus: Hit% 140, Crit 21, Damage 180-225

    132 230C 122 151 141 123 118 145 308C 112
    251C dodge 145 119 117 124 129 dodge 121 116
    116 118 131 133 120 123 147 142 dodge 130
    144 dodge 119 149 miss 124 miss 134 128 dodge
    dodge 112 142 136 134 112 206C 119 117 128
    151 279C 128 115 287C 221C 143 miss 128 300C
    133 147 198C 121 291C 141 255C dodge 131 115
    dodge miss 274C 153 116 133 109 126 129 132
    154 129 113 131 dodge dodge 113 121 dodge 125
    144 127 131 dodge 130 224C 111 130 257C 126

    Total attempted hits in Close Encounters: 100
    Dodge/miss: 16
    Successful hits: 84

    Non-criticals landed: 70 (83.33%)
    Non-critical damage range: 109-154
    Total non-critical damage: 9009
    Average non-critical damage: 128.7

    Criticals landed: 14 (16.67%)
    Critical damage range: 198-300
    Total critical damage: 3581
    Average critical damage: 255.8

    Total damage (non-crit and crit): 12,590


    Conclusion:
    - Critical hits effectively double your damage (both range and average damage). 255.8 is roughly double 128.7.
    - "Crit" means a set percentage of how often you critically hit an enemy. Crit rate for 84 successful hits was 16.67%, close to 21%.


    We didn't have the Focus buff on, which gives birds an extra 25% hit and 25% crit chance. What happens when we attempt this with Focus?

    Void set, with Focus (+25% hit, +25% Crit): Hit% 165, Crit 46, Damage 180-225

    146 146 151 dodge 119 141 109 235C dodge 119
    122 273C 269C 114 241C 257C dodge 122 dodge 114
    dodge 132 141 141 147 149 254C miss 308C 135
    273C 271C 203C 279C 270C 273C 302C 114 142 138
    256C 132 262C dodge 139 296C 253C 151 225C 133
    116 110 253C 223C 118 282C 122 142 miss 116
    127 133 283C 307C 116 134 miss 146 129 142
    miss 153 141 279C 226C 297C dodge 310C 265C miss
    201C dodge 130 238C 135 dodge 295C 119 223C dodge
    252C 264C 149 203C 262C 118 152 142 118 300C

    Total attempted hits in Close Encounters: 100
    Dodge/miss: 15
    Successful hits: 85

    Non-criticals landed: 47 (55.29%)
    Non-critical damage range: 109-153
    Total non-critical damage: 6205
    Average non-critical damage: 132.0

    Criticals landed: 38 (44.7%)
    Critical damage range: 201-310
    Total critical damage: 9963
    Average critical damage: 262.2

    Total damage (non-crit and crit): 16,168


    Conclusion:
    - These results reinforce my previous results in that crit damages are double your normal. Critical hits landed was 44.7%, close to the expected value of 46.
    - Also note the frequency of criticals: 44.7% with Focus compared to 16.67% without Focus. What does this mean for damage?
    - With focus constantly on, I did a total of 16,168 damage compared to my 12,590 without it. Critical hits DO make a huge difference in damage. This simply means keep your buffs up all the time to do more damage over time.


    Here's another caveat: My normal damage range in close encounters for the first run was 109-154, and for the second run was 109-153. Why is this range so low when it says my damage is 180-225 with the Void set? This is where enemy armor comes into play.

    V. Enemy Armor and Affected Damage

    It's quite possible that with different campaigns, a mob's armor changes. With the Void set equipped in Forest Haven, you would be doing constant non-critical damages from 180 to 225. Enemy armor increases with increasing campaign difficult, thus why in Shadow Caves you do a measly 30 non-critical damage.

    Here's how much damage is reduced in Close Encounters, using figures from above.
    Void set (damage range: 180-225, average damage 202.5)
    Non-criticals landed: 117
    Non-critical damage range: 109-154
    Total non-critical damage: 15,214
    Average non-critical damage: 130.0

    Damage reduction at lower end: 180-109 = 71 armor
    Damage reduction at higher end: 225-154 = 71 armor
    Damage reduction on average damage: 202.5 - 130 = 72.5 armor

    % damage reduction on lower range (or 1-109/180): 39.44%
    % damage reduction on upper range (or 1-154/225): 31.55%
    % damage reduction on average damage (or 130/202.5): 35.8%

    As you can see, Close Encounter enemies have 71-72.5 armor, and you will consistently have reduced damage anywhere from 30% up to 40% with this particular mob. (Thanks Ellyidol for the numeric armor suggestion)

    When I have more time I will figure out damage reduction in other campaigns.

    VI. The Effect and Extent of Damage Multipliers (Combos)

    So you're a great PL player and you already know that combos kill enemies faster than individual skills and attacks.

    How vastly does the damage difference between weapons and criticals change when combos are introduced? This question was presented in one of my earlier threads regarding the debate between the new Sentinel set and the Void set. Hopefully you'll see results more clearly in the field than on paper.


    What we know so far:
    Void set gives a damage range of 180-225 and DPS of 202. Hit% is 140 and Crit% is 21.
    Sentinel set gives a damage range of 188-233 and DPS of 211. Hit% is 126 and Crit% is 22.

    Your damage difference between the two sets is currently 8. A difference of 8 damage doesn't seem too much, does it? Let's add in a skill.

    When Blast Shot is used:
    Void set gives a damage range of 277-301.
    Sentinel set gives a damage range of 286-310.

    Now you're looking at a damage difference range of 8-10. Now add the possibility of crits with Blast Shot. Remember from my previous example above that critically hitting an enemy doubles your damage.

    When Blast Shot is used and you critically hit:
    Void set gives a damage range of 554-602.
    Sentinel set gives a damage range of 572-620.

    Your damage difference range is now a difference of 18.


    I tested the Sentinel set in Close Encounters and recorded only my critical hits with Blast Shot: 456 474 455 477 453 468
    Since there is a damage reduction of 30-40% (avg 35%) in Close Encounters, you would really be doing this: 616 640 614 644 612 632

    Matches the damage range right? So these numerations are so far accurate.

    Now, what about using the Cruel Blast combo? This does massive damage to a target, but what's the damage difference between Void and Sentinel when you critically hit while using Cruel Blast? From what I understand, Cruel Blast adds an extra attack similar to Blast Shot's damage when used, so you're effectively doubling your damage once more.

    When Cruel Blast is used and you critically hit both attacks:
    Void set gives a damage range of 554-602, twice for a total of 1108-1204 damage.
    Sentinel set gives a damage range of 572-620, twice for a total of 1144-1240 damage.

    The difference in damage, if you're lucky enough to pull off crits on both hits, is 32 to 36.

    An advantage of 8 on paper to up to 32-36 seems extremely favorable to the Sentinel set, but if we think about it objectively, it's really not that much difference in damage - Enemies in Alien Oasis 3 have hundreds of HP, and enemies in the Shadow Caves heal thousands. Perusing my prior analysis guide will also show you that there is no significant difference between either sets.

    Either way, the point of this exercise was to show how damage multipliers worked. I would still imagine the debate between Void and Sentinel raging on and on

    VII. "I have a hit% of 135, why do I miss?"

    This question was presented by Ravenous. Here I will try to reason out the reason why we miss or why enemies dodge our attacks, even though we have a hit% of greater than 100. We will also find out what the difference between a MISS and a DODGE is. Let's assume enemies, like us, have a DODGE stat. My hypothesis is that DODGE is a given % and that 1 dodge = -1 hit%.

    Equipment used was the full Sunblessed Archer set in the AO3 map, Close Encounters. Sample size will be n = 500, or 500 recorded attempted hits.

    Sunblessed Set, no Focus, Hit% 135
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    total attempted hits: 500
    'd' (dodge) total: 55
    'm' (miss) total: 36
    'a' (hit) total: 409 (82%, rounded up)

    Probably enemy 'DODGE' calculation in Close Encounters = 135% - 82% = 53.
    Therefore, if enemy DODGE is 53 and your hit% is 135, you go down to an 82% chance to hit an enemy.

    Here's an attempt to confirm this finding of enemy DODGE.

    This time, I will use the Sunblessed set with Focus, which increases my hit% up to 25%. Hit% should be 160 so if there really is a factor of enemy DODGE of 53, then my hit % should be 107%. This means that I should have no misses or dodges, right?

    Sunblessed Set, with Focus, Hit% 160
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    total attempted hits: 500
    'd' (dodge) total: 50 (9.1% decrease compared to 55)
    'm' (miss) total: 25 (30.5% decrease compared to 36)
    'a' (hit) total: 425 (85%, rounded up)

    These results are very confusing. My initial hypothesis of Dodge calcuation was incorrect because I failed to hit enemies almost as frequently as before. Enemy rates of DODGEing didn't decrease, and my total successful hit percentage was similar to previous results (82% versus 85%).

    Westpsy suggested that it may be possible that there is a Hit% cap, or a point where it doesn't matter how much Hit% you have, you will still miss an enemy; I am inclined to believe this as well. Your true Hit% may be 82-85% in Close Encounters, and won't be able to increase beyond that.

    It's interesting to note that I MISSed 30.5% less, which is very close to the 25% increased chance to hit that the archer skill Focus gives. Perhaps Focus causes you to MISS enemies less as opposed to increasing your overall chance to hit them.

    So in short, the results with the Sunblessed Set are as follows (n=500):
    - With a Hit% of 135, there was an 82% chance of successful hits.
    - With a Hit% of 160 (Focus), there was an 85% chance of successful hits.
    - There doesn't seem to be a numeric enemy DODGE factor, but a hit% cap of 82-85%.
    - Focus may serve to decrease the amount of times you MISS an enemy.

    These results closely match the Void set results from my Critical Hits section (n=100):
    - With a Hit% of 140, there was an 84% chance of successful hits.
    - With a Hit% of 165 (Focus), there was an 85% chance of successful hits.


    I will now try my results with the Sentinel of Death set, which has a generally lower hit% than both Void and Sunblessed Sets.

    Sentinel, without Focus, Hit% 126
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    total attempted hits: 500
    'd' (dodge) total: 54
    'm' (miss) total: 18
    'a' (hit) total: 428 (85.6%)

    Even when Sentinel was used without Focus, it produced a result that was equal or no better than the Void set. This confirms that there does seem to be a Hit% cap when Hit% reaches 100...which pretty much means that the value of Hit% is useless beyond 100!

    It's interesting to also note that the Sentinel set had a much lower MISS total compared to the Void and Sunblessed despite a lower Hit%, which I can't explain at all, and I'm tired from recording 1500 sets of values


    So from the data suggested, here's my conclusion:
    > Sentinel, Void, and Sunblessed Sets all have very similar hit rates on the field, despite what their numbers suggest.
    > There may be a hit% cap that causes players with Hit% > 100 to miss enemies.
    > Rates of enemy DODGEing does not seem affected by different weapon set, or Hit%. However, the rate of MISSing enemies between sets is variable.


    VIII. The Search for a Crit Cap

    Much thanks to WhoIsThis for testing this with me.

    In this section, we try to establish if a possible cap to crit exists; our main reason to test this out is simply because a hit% cap exists. At the moment, the highest possible crit value can only be achieved by a mage due to their powerful +60% crit buff. As such, we used WhoIsThis' pure INT mage to test this out. This was tested in Alien Oasis III: Close Encounters. Attacks were ONLY recorded while the mage was buffed for 94% crit.

    Pure INT mage stats: Lv 56, 1/2/330 stat distribution
    Pure INT mage equips: Mastermind Wand/Bracer combo
    Crit: 34% unbuffed, 94% buffed

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    Total attempted hits in Close Encounters: 107
    Dodge: 14
    Successful hits: 93

    Non-criticals landed: 3 (3.2%)
    Criticals landed: 90 (96.8%)

    So far, no evidence of a crit cap less than 94% crit exists. If a crit cap does exist, it will be much higher than the hit% cap.

    Since the sample number was small compared to the hit% data sample numbers, we will probably have to record more values down in the future.

    X. The Difference Between Damage and DPS, and Which To Choose

    This question was frequently in the back of my mind when I first started playing PL. The devs decided to put the value of DPS there for a reason. If you've been following my guide from the beginning, we know how damage, weapon speed, and DPS are related (please look back at section II for this example).

    Often times during gameplay I have been presented with the choice of choosing one of the following weapons - choosing between higher damage, or higher DPS (but never both). For our sake of example, we will apply values to them:
    1. Weapon with low damage range (50-60), high DPS (70)
    2. Weapon with high damage range (65-75), low DPS (50)

    Which weapon is best to kill bosses with? Look at DPS first.

    Let's say a boss fight drags on for 30 seconds. The boss has a lot of health and doesn't go down easily. Choosing the first weapon yields you a total of (70x30) damage, or 2,100 damage. Choosing the second weapon yields you a total of (50x30) damage, or 1,500 damage. Seems clear you'd want to choose the first weapon right?

    It doesn't really matter what the damage is - it's very easy to see in an extended boss fight (bosses with a lot of health) that DPS is much better. This finding is more muddled when it comes to attacking normal enemies with much less health.

    Attacking an enemy with 200 health takes roughly 2.85 seconds with the first weapon and 4 seconds with the second weapon, but if you have a chance to crit with the second weapon for 150 damage, you've ripped a nice chunk of the enemy's health already.

    Case in point, weapons with higher damage ranges when used with damage multipliers will help eliminate normal enemies faster than weapons with higher DPS.

    Edit (1/19/11):
    I did not mention that the factor of enemy armor does in fact cause a favorable shift towards damage as opposed to DPS (Thanks to Kalielle, Xymorg, and FluffNStuff for pointing this out).

    I will quote and use FluffNStuff and Xymorg's examples (respectively):
    That section completely ignores the armor part, and what you want to take into account is effective dps.
    Consider two weapons:
    First has 50 damage and a speed of .5
    Second has 85 damage and a speed of 1
    So, basic dps is 100 on first, 85 on second.
    But now consider an enemy with 30 Armor:
    First is now (50 - 30) * 2 = 20
    Second is 85 - 30 = 55
    So the effective dps of the first is 20 and the second is 55.
    This does not even take into account the effect of damage on skills, but that gets extremely complicated because of the two hand skill add nerf.
    Unless the mob has armor.

    The dps only counts if the hit causes damage. For mobs with armor greater than what dmg you rolled, you get the big goose egg, so its like a miss.

    Vs armor of 100 (I guessed at the speeds to approximate your example of 100dps slow v 140 dps fast):

    140-165 speed 1.5 is 40 to 65 realized per hit so avg 52.5 x 21.4 hits in 30 secs = 1123.5 dmg in encounter

    100-125 speed 0.8 is 0 to 25 realized per hit so avg 12.5 x 37.5 hits in 30 secs= 468.75 dmg in encounter

    Ya, its extreme example, but as the armor becomes a larger percent of the per hit damage, dps becomes more & more misleading since it's calculated against armor zero & thus favors the speed.
    To recap their point, when an enemy has a large amount of armor, both damage and DPS will be reduced, but DPS will be affected much more. I think it's easier to see it using this equation:

    Avg damage = unaffected by enemy armor (what you see on your stats window)
    Effective damage = avg damage - enemy armor
    DPS = effective damage / weapon speed


    If enemy armor is LARGE:
    ↓Effective damage = avg damage - ↑enemy armor
    ↓ DPS = ↓ effective damage / weapon speed


    If the factor of enemy armor is applied, DPS will be affected, but NOT the damage range you see in your stats window. Thus, DPS can be misleading at times.

    However, it's important to note that although enemy armor does play a role in reducing your damage and DPS, your character is equipped with skills that debuffs armor on enemies to a certain percentage. Combined with other party members' skills, it may be possible to completely strip an enemy's armor, so that the factor of enemy armor is no longer of any significance to neither damage nor DPS. Keep in mind that the rate of debuffing an enemy's armor can vary from party to party based on individual player skill.

    XI. Hidden Weapon Skills aka Procs

    There are few weapon types that carry a "proc" or basically a hidden weapon skill that debuffs an enemy, or adds an elemental attack. BeardedBear has a useful index that describes each proc and its respective weapon types, so I'll just link you to his thread.

    Not every weapon has a hidden proc, and some pinks may have hidden procs as well, but such weapons can be useful because they allow you to debuff enemies without using skills at all - each proc is activated at a random set percentage while you are attacking normally.

    XII. "My skill has a range of 8m...what does this mean, and how far exactly is 8m (8 meters) in this game?"

    Many skills have a range or an area of effect described in "m" which stands for meters, but this is unfortunately a very abstract way to describe the distance your skill actually reaches.

    Here's a way to measure an approximate distance of how far your skill can reach.

    This is Thorn Wall at level 6, which carries a range of 10m. As reference points, I am in-between the chest and a bush, and Thorn Wall was able to hit the chest at this furthest distance:


    This is a xbow used that carries with it a range of 12m. Note that the xbow was able to hit the chest right where the bush is, a little farther than Thorn Wall:


    Here's the first picture again but with range denoted. Keep into account that depth perception is a factor here, and as you go further away from the center (my character), range is longer than it appears:


    XI. Algorithm for a Successful or Failed Attack

    When you attack an enemy, the game follows a specific algorithm that determines the outcome of the attack:
    1. You will MISS the attack
    2. The enemy will DODGE the attack
    3. You will damage the enemy
    4. You will critically damage the enemy



    Hit% roll is based off of your hit%. There is a probable cap to this value (<100% despite your hit% value).
    Enemy dodge % roll is an unknown variable for each enemy.
    Crit% roll is based off of your crit. Unsure of a cap existence at the moment.
    Critical damage = effective damage x2
    Effective damage = damage - enemy armor

    I did not include weapon proc in this, as they activate at a low random occurrence. The proc most likely adds at the very end, after damage/critical damage is calculated.

    Thanks MoonYeol for giving his insight in this!

    XIII. Thx and Revision History

    As always, thank you readers for your positive comments and criticism. I will continue to make guides until I move on from PL.

    1/15/11: Guide created
    Hit%/Miss/Dodge section added
    1/19/11: Edited Damage/DPS section
    2/14/11: Proc and range sections added
    2/16/11: Algorithm for successful/failed attack added
    3/4/11: Attribute calculation added

  2. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Physiologic For This Useful Post:


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    Senior Member Beanmachine's Avatar
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    first!!! nice job

    Proud Member of AEO (PL) and Sparkling Pwnies (SL)!

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    Luminary Poster Ellyidol's Avatar
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    Bravo! VERY well explained and true.

    Regarding the Enemy Armor, I couldn't really tell if your numbers show 1 armor = 1 damage reduction? I've always just thought about it that way, I don't know if that will help.

    But very well done!

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    Guardian of Alterra Physiologic's Avatar
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    Elly - I am not sure what you mean by 1 armor = 1 damage reduction. Is there a source on actual values regarding enemy armor?

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    Luminary Poster Ellyidol's Avatar
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    I don't have any numbers to show either, I've just constantly read and based from that assumption ever since I started.

    I believe TT did some tests in PvP and showed that armour does 5/7 or 5/8 reduction or something, have to dig up the thread as it was awhile back.

    I just found it easier to think of 1 armour = 1 damage reduction since mob damages don't really tend to multiply by huge amounts when you also have no armor on.

    Then again it'd bring up how much minimum damage mobs do. X_X I have no certainty whatsoever, just if its useful. I could be dead wrong, and wouldn't be surprised if I am. Lol

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    Luminary Poster Ellyidol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenus View Post
    I think there's only one way to find out. In PVP. Get attacker to use same weapon throughout the tests and defender to switch armors with armor value of 1-10. Then repeat the same way as you did. Land 100 hits on the defender for each different armor equipped. Need to take into consideration the base armor ( defender ) and damage ( attacker ) even without any items equipped.
    True, but it raises the question if PvP is the same as PvE. Numbers there would only be valid for PvP, until a dev confirms that PvE numbers = PvP numbers.

    This is just coming from past experiences in games where they add certain reductions in PvP based from PvE numbers.

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    Guardian of Alterra Physiologic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellyidol View Post
    I don't have any numbers to show either, I've just constantly read and based from that assumption ever since I started.

    I believe TT did some tests in PvP and showed that armour does 5/7 or 5/8 reduction or something, have to dig up the thread as it was awhile back.

    I just found it easier to think of 1 armour = 1 damage reduction since mob damages don't really tend to multiply by huge amounts when you also have no armor on.

    Then again it'd bring up how much minimum damage mobs do. X_X I have no certainty whatsoever, just if its useful. I could be dead wrong, and wouldn't be surprised if I am. Lol
    Oh I see what you mean, I just attributed the damage reduction through a percentage since I calculated it that way, and its easier to see as a reference to damage you do. You meant placing a set numeric range of reduced damage instead:

    Void set (damage range: 180-225, average damage 202.5)
    Non-criticals landed: 117
    Non-critical damage range: 109-154
    Total non-critical damage: 15,214
    Average non-critical damage: 130.0

    Damage reduction at lower end: 180-109 = 71 armor
    Damage reduction at higher end: 225-154 = 71 armor
    Damage reduction on average damage: 202.5 - 130 = 72.5 armor

    Either way works, but thanks for pointing that out. Close Encounter enemies have 71-72.5 armor, which causes an overall damage reduction from 31.55% to 39.44%.

    The 5/7 and 5/8 reduction may seems way too high...maybe armor values differ between PvE and PvP?

    Also, I hope I somehow answered your question in my other thread

    I'm guessing with higher DPS/base damage, along with other debuffs from other classes, along with that "Super debuff + buff" combo, if that extra 11 DPS and 8 damage would go through a lot of multipliers? Even more when a crit happens with/without the group buffs/debuffs.
    I didn't apply the Break Armor debuff as well as buffs/debuffs from other classes. Not entirely sure which cancels out the other, or if these buffs/debuffs stack...
    Break Armor 20 pt. armor reduction
    Nightmare 25 pt. armor reduction
    etc.

    Is Nightmare 25 pt = 25% or 25 points?

    I think there's only one way to find out. In PVP. Get attacker to use same weapon throughout the tests and defender to switch armors with armor value of 1-10. Then repeat the same way as you did. Land 100 hits on the defender for each different armor equipped. Need to take into consideration the base armor ( defender ) and damage ( attacker ) even without any items equipped.
    I'll probably set something like this up to confirm this whole armor business since I am unsure myself. Thanks for the suggestion!

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    Forum Adept xuz's Avatar
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    interesting i read the whole thing did all the mathes...
    also amazing thread.. helps alot

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    Quote Originally Posted by xuz View Post
    interesting i read the whole thing did all the mathes...
    also amazing thread.. helps alot
    fail post gtfo
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    Very nice work! So does this mean as you get to the harder map areas the bow set is alot better due to the mobs armor? This is how I am reading it.....

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    Yup, thats what I meant.

    I actually prefer it in your calculations, as % reductions rather than actual figures. Sadly, PL doesn't use the 100% def type of reduction. (the amount of def you have from 1-100 is the % of damage reduction).

    This system has its advantages too, I think. I like how I can easily tell the difference in armour from a cosmos to a rift set. Rather be seeing high def numbers than small % ones :P Just a self-fulfilment thing. Lol

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    Excellent work. Now explain to us what hit % means and how it can be above 100%.

    -Rav
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    Guardian of Alterra Physiologic's Avatar
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    I wish the devs didn't put percentages over 100 like that. I'll try to decipher what that means, and how it's related to an enemy's innate DODGE/MISS capability.

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    Junior Member Westpsy's Avatar
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    Nice! In regards to the hit percentage, I found it interesting that without focus you hit the mobs 84% of the time and with focus you only hit the mobs 85% of the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Physiologic View Post

    Void set, Without Focus: Hit% 140, Crit 21, Damage 180-225
    Total attempted hits in Close Encounters: 100
    Dodge/miss: 16
    Successful hits: 84

    Void set, with Focus (+25% hit, +25% Crit): Hit% 165, Crit 46, Damage 180-225
    Total attempted hits in Close Encounters: 100
    Dodge/miss: 15
    Successful hits: 85
    Though the sample size is small, I believe this suggests there is a cap to how often you can hit the mob. This has been my experience in other mmo's, and if there is a hit% cap, then it would greatly diminish the value of overloading on hit%, especially in pve. In pratical terms(but not counting weapon range), these findings seem to give an advantage to sunblessed and death over the megablaster. Seeing you do all this work makes me want to help out, so when I have some time away from class I'll sit down and run some numbers to get a larger sample. Great job Physiologic!
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    Interesting. I always thought critical hits means enemy armor was ignored for that hit.

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    Guardian of Alterra Physiologic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westpsy View Post
    Nice! In regards to the hit percentage, I found it interesting that without focus you hit the mobs 84% of the time and with focus you only hit the mobs 85% of the time.

    Though the sample size is small, I believe this suggests there is a cap to how often you can hit the mob. This has been my experience in other mmo's, and if there is a hit% cap, then it would greatly diminish the value of overloading on hit%, especially in pve. In pratical terms(but not counting weapon range), these findings seem to give an advantage to sunblessed and death over the megablaster. Seeing you do all this work makes me want to help out, so when I have some time away from class I'll sit down and run some numbers to get a larger sample. Great job Physiologic!
    Thanks for your input! I am currently running a sample size n = 500 now with the Sunblessed set, and I will attempt again using the Death set to see if hit% matters. From the data I'm seeing it looks like you're right, there seems to be a hit% cap.

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    Forum Adept kobebean's Avatar
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    "In reality, the Sunblessed Bow should have a DPS of 242, not 256. Either I am missing some other factor here, or the devs may need to change this small problem. Perhaps it has something to do with the Blinding Shot proc that the bow has."

    -maybe set bonus that we don't quite know about?

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    Guardian of Alterra Physiologic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kobebean View Post
    "In reality, the Sunblessed Bow should have a DPS of 242, not 256. Either I am missing some other factor here, or the devs may need to change this small problem. Perhaps it has something to do with the Blinding Shot proc that the bow has."

    -maybe set bonus that we don't quite know about?
    The current sunblessed set stated is:
    +3 h/s, +10 DMG, +7 Armor. Requires: Overlord's Helmet of the Void, Wraith Armor of the Void, Sunblessed Bow of the Void
    When you're wearing only Overlord's Helmet of the Void + Wraith Armor of the Void, stats look like this:
    2 274 1 125 14 10 501 5 500 4 49-55 44 70
    Highlighting bow (but not equipping gives us):
    2 285 1 133 16 13 501 6 500 6 183-228 242 76
    Equipping bow (and thus completing the set) actually gives us:
    2 285 1 135 16 14 501 9 500 6 195-240 256 83

    So instead of +3 h/s, +10 DMG, +7 Armor, it really gives us
    +2 %Hit, +1 Dodge, +3 h/s, +12 Damage, +7 Armor


    Thanks for bringing that up, the set bonuses for Sunblessed is not what it seems. But it still doesn't account for the problem in DPS...

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    It'd be interesting to try to track dodges and misses in PvP. Mainly to possibly confirm that there is some kind of hit % cap (in Close Encounters etc.). Perhaps such a cap wouldn't exist in PvP and the Hit% vs Dodge% would become truer?

    For clarification: as far as I can tell, Dodge (and Crit) are supposed to be percentages, right?
    I know on the left side stats it doesn't show as such, but they do show up as percentages in Dex Armor and increase the stats accordingly.
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    Guardian of Alterra Physiologic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewcapu View Post
    It'd be interesting to try to track dodges and misses in PvP. Mainly to possibly confirm that there is some kind of hit % cap (in Close Encounters etc.). Perhaps such a cap wouldn't exist in PvP and the Hit% vs Dodge% would become truer?

    For clarification: as far as I can tell, Dodge (and Crit) are supposed to be percentages, right?
    I know on the left side stats it doesn't show as such, but they do show up as percentages in Dex Armor and increase the stats accordingly.
    If anyone is willing to provide results with the sample size n = 200 that would be nice. I only twink PvP and do not wish to ruin my main char's PvP ratio.

    And yes, Crits are tested to be set percentages. I never tested Dodge out, but I would lean towards percentages as well. May test it out in the near future.

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