What will drop in the new Dimensional Arena?

[Energizeric]

What you described is exactly it.

So are you saying that re-rolls work differently here than in PL? I was under the impression that AL uses the same game engine and the same system for this.

In PL a re-roll meant you get an upgrade. Prior to them adding epic items to the Mount Fang drop table, you could not re-roll a dragon vanity item. I'm sure you also remember the same applied to Glyph items in Nuri, there were no epic items in the drop table, so no re-rolls of legendary items. Once they added the epic items to the drop table, those legendary items started to re-roll and the prices came crashing down even though STS never changed the drop rates or rarity of the legendary items.

[Energizeric]

Some people assume it is based on this (color rarity gets bumped up) etc etc. I believe a reroll is just a roll/jump to a next section up.

Maybe something like this and not based necessarily on color.

Grade 5 [ Arcane Fossil ]
Grade 4 [ Crate / Other hard to obtain item ]
Grade 3 [ Kind of hard to obtain item 1 / Kind of hard to obtain item 2 / Kind of hard to obtain item 3 ]
Grade 2 [ Easily obtained item 1, 2 , 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ]
Grade 1 [ Bunch of common items. ]

instead of
[ Arcane ]
[ Mythic ]
[ Legendary ]
...
...

In PL a re-roll meant an automatic upgrade, so I assume since AL uses the same game engine, that re-rolls work the same way also. I could be wrong, but I am 100% sure this is how it worked in PL.

In PL they had 100% re-roll elixirs, and if you ran with those you never would get an item lower than an epic, because greens/rare were the lowest items in the drop tables from bosses.

[Zeus]

So are you saying that re-rolls work differently here than in PL? I was under the impression that AL uses the same game engine and the same system for this.

In PL a re-roll meant you get an upgrade. Prior to them adding epic items to the Mount Fang drop table, you could not re-roll a dragon vanity item. I'm sure you also remember the same applied to Glyph items in Nuri, there were no epic items in the drop table, so no re-rolls of legendary items. Once they added the epic items to the drop table, those legendary items started to re-roll and the prices came crashing down even though STS never changed the drop rates or rarity of the legendary items.

Yep, exactly.

That's why you can re-roll to a trash item in AL.

[Energizeric]

Yep, exactly.

That's why you can re-roll to a trash item in AL.

Problem is the math just doesn't add up.

If a re-roll is just another chance at the same drop table, then running with a 40% luck (25% luck elixir + 15% leprechaun amulet) would give you a 40% higher chance of looting a legendary item.

However, I'd argue that running with lep + luck elixir gives you about a 2000% better chance at a legendary item. All you have to do is run KM3 a few dozen times with and without luck bonus, and you will see the results. With the 40% luck you will loot about 10 times as many locked crates as without the luck.

In fact, just think about how seldom you see a legendary item drop without a re-roll. Almost never. Maybe 5% of the legendary drops are NOT re-rolls. Yet even if everyone is running with a 40% luck boost (which they are NOT), then 6 out of every 10 drops are NOT re-rolls. So if what you say is true, then there would be more legendary drops that are NOT re-rolls, and are re-rolls.

The math doesn't add up. Re-roll is an automatic upgrade to the next higher color rarity.

As for claims of re-rolling a trash item, it's never happened to me. I've seen claims before that it has happened, but I suspect it was an egg drop that was hard to notice and instead the player picked up a common item from a mob drop near the boss and assumed that was their drop. Other than that I can't answer why this would happen. But just do the math and you will realize that a re-roll is a lot more than just another chance at the same drop table.

[Zeus]

Sorry, perhaps you misunderstood or maybe I did somewhere.


There are loot tables, not rarities. In these loot tables can contain an assortment of items from various rarities. So, what a re-roll in AL does is bump you up one re-roll table and then from that table, you roll again to win an item from that specific table.


Think of it like a pyramid. When you kill a boss, oldest say you land on the lowest table of the pyramid. However, now let's say you re-rolled. So, now you will be in the next loot table level. It doesn't mean the items went up a rarity level. It just means that the items in that loot table level are rarer than the items in the loot table level below it.

[Energizeric]

Sorry, perhaps you misunderstood or maybe I did somewhere.


There are loot tables, not rarities. In these loot tables can contain an assortment of items from various rarities. So, what a re-roll in AL does is bump you up one re-roll table and then from that table, you roll again to win an item from that specific table.


Think of it like a pyramid. When you kill a boss, oldest say you land on the lowest table of the pyramid. However, now let's say you re-rolled. So, now you will be in the next loot table level. It doesn't mean the items went up a rarity level. It just means that the items in that loot table level are rarer than the items in the loot table level below it.

Ok fair enough. Basically the same thing, but you are saying in AL the loot tables are not divided strictly by color rarity, where as in PL they were.

That is certainly believable since we have items like eggs and chests/crates that we did not have in PL.


If that is the case then the issue is whether the arcane fossil is in its own drop table, and if it can be re-rolled. I would hope the answer is that it cannot. Aside from that, perhaps they would just add it to the highest drop table with the other legendary drops and give it a super tiny drop percentage within that drop table, perhaps something low like 0.1%.

[FluffNStuff]

Yep, exactly.

That's why you can re-roll to a trash item in AL.

A reroll is not a chance at rolling again it is a chance to go up one rarity level.
In your scenario farming getting an extra 50% would give you 1.5 rolls instead of 1 over time. This would mean what a player could farm on 50% luck farming 10 runs of KM3 would have the same chance to drop a pink as a player with zero luck running it 15 times.
What the other one means is if the chance of a pink is say 5% and the chance of a purple is 60% the chance of a Pink with 50% luck is 35% (50% times 60%) the reroll plus original 5%. So that means seven times higher chance. Now that translates to a player doing 10 runs of KM3 gets the same amount as a unlixered player doing 70 runs.

[FluffNStuff]

Hmm, seems this conversation was had already. Thanks Zeus and Energizeric!

[Zeus]

A reroll is not a chance at rolling again it is a chance to go up one rarity level.
In your scenario farming getting an extra 50% would give you 1.5 rolls instead of 1 over time. This would mean what a player could farm on 50% luck farming 10 runs of KM3 would have the same chance to drop a pink as a player with zero luck running it 15 times.
What the other one means is if the chance of a pink is say 5% and the chance of a purple is 60% the chance of a Pink with 50% luck is 35% (50% times 60%) the reroll plus original 5%. So that means seven times higher chance. Now that translates to a player doing 10 runs of KM3 gets the same amount as a unlixered player doing 70 runs.

No Fluff,

That's wrong. It's not the same code from PL which is why AL does not suffer from the same re-roll problems that PL did. I thought the same thing.

It's a chance to go up in loot tables. It's not necessarily a chance to go up in rarities. When you re-roll, you go up a loot table and then you roll again.

I'm interested to know where they place the fossil in the loot table because if they place it in a table all by itself, all you would have to do is loot something from the top tier table and re-roll so it would be be a guaranteed chance at the fossil if you automatically were placed in the highest level loot table (apart from fossil).

[FluffNStuff]

No Fluff,

That's wrong. It's not the same code from PL which is why AL does not suffer from the same re-roll problems that PL did. I thought the same thing.

It's a chance to go up in loot tables. It's not necessarily a chance to go up in rarities. When you re-roll, you go up a loot table and then you roll again.

I'm interested to know where they place the fossil in the loot table because if they place it in a table all by itself, all you would have to do is loot something from the top tier table and re-roll so it would be be a guaranteed chance at the fossil if you automatically were placed in the highest level loot table (apart from fossil).

That is easy. Put one thing in the second highest and make the chance of looting the second highest only slightly higher then the chance of looting the highest. Then it would increase your odds, but the most is double odds.

[Ravager]

No Fluff,

That's wrong. It's not the same code from PL which is why AL does not suffer from the same re-roll problems that PL did. I thought the same thing.

It's a chance to go up in loot tables. It's not necessarily a chance to go up in rarities. When you re-roll, you go up a loot table and then you roll again.

I'm interested to know where they place the fossil in the loot table because if they place it in a table all by itself, all you would have to do is loot something from the top tier table and re-roll so it would be be a guaranteed chance at the fossil if you automatically were placed in the highest level loot table (apart from fossil).

Probably something along the lines in my example. Maybe putting Locked Crate in its own section and maybe it would be equivalent to getting a crate without a reroll but with reroll would lead to fossil.

[Energizeric]

Probably something along the lines in my example. Maybe putting Locked Crate in its own section and maybe it would be equivalent to getting a crate without a reroll but with reroll would lead to fossil.

I think that would be too common. This needs to be rare. I say make it in its own separate loot table but make the loot table below it not exist on this map, so you cannot reroll a fossil.

[Ebezaanec]

Awesome! The first non-crate/chest lootable arcane!

In AL, the rerolls are determined by loot table rather than color rarity classes. Since we are unable to see the behind-the-scenes mechanics of rerolling, it's difficult to organize and determine how the items are categorized.

There was an dev post concerning loot tables, but I do not remember the thread.

[Goodfella]

This thread turns into an science thread

[FluffNStuff]

I think that would be too common. This needs to be rare. I say make it in its own separate loot table but make the loot table below it not exist on this map, so you cannot reroll a fossil.

If the table below it was empty you would get nothing if you rerolled from the table below that, assuming they actually use this method.
Would need something to catch those pink rerolls but something with a low enough rate that it would not explode the top table rate if rerolled from.

[Energizeric]

If the table below it was empty you would get nothing if you rerolled from the table below that, assuming they actually use this method.
Would need something to catch those pink rerolls but something with a low enough rate that it would not explode the top table rate if rerolled from.

It sounds like the mechanics are the same as PL, except instead of just having color rarity we have different loot tables. In PL they were able to do this in Mount Fang and Nuri with having no epics but having legendary items. Then you couldn't re-roll. So I wonder if it's possible to do the same thing here but with loot tables instead.

[FluffNStuff]

It sounds like the mechanics are the same as PL, except instead of just having color rarity we have different loot tables. In PL they were able to do this in Mount Fang and Nuri with having no epics but having legendary items. Then you couldn't re-roll. So I wonder if it's possible to do the same thing here but with loot tables instead.

That would be the best solution if they could have it so it rerolls from nothing.
BTW, the game is definitely using color as the location of the loot table which is why all the essences were turning into pinks before they fixed it. Hmm. They should be able to use whatever fix they used to make essences not reroll to make nothing be able to reroll into this. They just better test the smack out of it themselves because we all have seen what happens when they get it wrong (crate flood/ archons for everyone).

[Haligali]

This fossil drop should have been tested on beta. What if the drop rate is messed up again..

[Avshow]

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[MoloToha]

I get green drop from boss at re-roll pretty often, so at re-roll there can be an item of not strictly 1 tier higher. I think that re-rolls have their own loot table (which includes rares, too), when re-roll happens, loot from both tables is taken randomly and compared. Better one is dropped for player. That's why it's easy to get a legendary item with elixir and hard without one. Fossil can be put only in normal loot table, and if re-roll happens and fossil rolled in a normal table, it is prioritized over another item, so it will be dropped.