Arcane Legends Skill System Feedback Wanted!

[Fibus]

Hi everyone!

First, an introduction: I'm Fibus and I'm a Senior Game Designer here at Spacetime. I've been here for about a year now and in that time, I've worked on many of the AL features that you have all enjoyed. Going forward, I hope to continue that trend. One of my current projects is the AL Skills System update, which brings me to the focus of this post...

Over the last 2 years, Arcane Legends has grown and developed with tons of new content and changes. Now, we are taking the time to look back at what we have done and see how we can improve. As we have announced (read more at: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...s-Skill-System), on part of the game we're taking a look at is the skill system, including all of the various class skills. While we have certain metrics that we can look at to analyze skill usage, it is also important to get feedback directly from the community, since numbers don't come accompanied with explanations. We want to know how these skills feel to you as part of your builds.

So, we would love for you all to tell us what you like or dislike about your class' skills. Providing any explanations with your answers would be extremely helpful!

• What class do you primarily play?
• What are your current builds for PvE? PvP? (If your builds are precious to you, I also accept private messages )
• Which skills/upgrades do you like using and why?
• Which skills/upgrades do you dislike using and why?
• Any additional information you want to tell us (but please try to keep it skills related)

[notfaded1]

heya Fibus
primarily rogue... and shadow storm shot is useless for one. I primarily use Aimed shot 5/5, nox 5/5, veil 4/5 no combust, and traps 4/5 no explode but also have Shadow Pierce unlocked just for timed runs.

[Arachnophobik]

Hi Fibus! Im Arachnophobik, a warrior.
I use skyward smash, chest splitter, vengeful blood and horn of renew for pve and for pvp; i tend to adapt to the situation. I either use the same that i use on pve or i replace venge with juggernaut.
Likes: the survivability with juggernaut, juggernauts anti-movenent impairment effects, vengeful blood buffs, chest splitter feeble.
Dislikes: juggernaut bug (gets rooted by mage's myth gun proc), juggernaut's heal (at 25%) supposedly healing lower (considering the long cooldown and that rogues can crit throut it a lot i think it shud be a bit higher than how it is now).
Overall i still dig the skills. Theyre nice. I dont want a 5th skill slot as of now, but if the new skills are released, i bet we will all be in dire need of a fifth one.

[quzz]

Greetings Fibus! I am an mage and i use 3/5 fireball, 2/5 lifegiver, 3/5 timeshift, and 4/5 arcane shield

I like every skill for mage except skills upgrades, the push back upgrade when you charge arcane shield, mobs around you get pushed back an little. That dosent really matter since the mobs can still attack you, i suggest you change it into like additional 2-3 seconds of duration or make the armor of the shield an little tiny bit stronger since rogues with arcane ring/elon bow and samael can still one shot us because we are so underpowered!

[Candylicks]

What class do you primarily play? Mage

What are your current builds for PvE?
4/5 Fireball (no scorch)
4/5 Light (no shock)
4/5 Ice (no shatter)
4/5 Shield (no wave)
4/5 Clock (no explode)

5/5 Crit, 5/5 Dex, 5/5 Int, 5/5 HP

Which skills/upgrades do you like using and why?
I like fireball/ice/clock combo to work the mobs in elites. I swap clock to light on bosses and it hits well when it crits. Shield is my friend too, one of the best skills in an end game PvE mage build.

Which skills/upgrades do you dislike using and why?
Curse never used because I am not a PvP player. Wind I tend to blow my mage across the map on accident so I stay away from that. Heal was OK to lvl with, but useless in elites so I don't use anymore. What is the point of the heal causing aggro? It really makes no sense why a mage would want to bring any more aggro onto itself than necessary.

Any additional information you want to tell us (but please try to keep it skills related)

I would like to see a 5th slot enabled. It's difficult for me to stop and swap out light for clock at a boss and would be great to have both at my fingertips. Also, yes mage could use a boost with shield. We have no dodge and you guys have many PvE maps with wonky red zones. Either increase the duration of shield or decrease the cool down. It makes no sense how you can keep dropping clock but not popping shield, the timing doesn't feel right with these two skills that really need to work together in elites.

Also, you know the passives have issues. Once we figured out the single damage modifier rule many of us specc'd out of damage in both mage and rogue. How about addressing this in the new skill revamp?

[jiph]

More skill slots

[Jurmans]

Uhmm im a lvl 7 twink warrior that doesn't want to tell his build, hope you guys come up with smthn cool though.

[Haligali]

hey, check pve tips in my signature.

ps.: i think sorcerer class really need a skill/subskill, which removes movement-impairing effects like the unstoppable subskill on warriors juggernaut or the spinning freedom on rogues razor shield upgrade .

and oh, the increased duration upgrade nullfies the spinning freedom, it worth a look, and the unlocked rising death cause less damage on shadow pierce.

[UndeadJudge]

I'll post a couple of deserted skills and upgrades that many of us would like to see changed.

-Rogues:

Shadow Storm Shot - Does super low damage, high cooldown, and is not auto aim. Perhaps a damage buff, such as the critical upgrade could be increased by at least 50-75%. And maybe reduce the cooldown by a second or two.

Noxious Bolt - The skill is great, the issue is the Serrated Arrowhead upgrade does not add 15% damage as it should. It adds no damage whatsoever, as Zeus posted in his thread "Rogue's Tips and Tricks".

Warriors:

-Skyward Smash: again, a great skill but its Effortless Execution is a worthless upgrade. It returns hardly any mana, and warriors already have Vengeful Blood to restore most of their mana. I don't play warrior as much, so someone else could give a replacement suggestion.

-Rally Cry: This skill is only used in some timed runs and Jarl runs to farm locks. The armor increase isn't noticeable and IMO is a waste of a skill.

Sorcerers: Here's where things need to change a bit. I'll leave a couple of my own suggestions, but bottom line is something needs to change.

Gale Force: useless skill. I've tried to like it but simply can't. Its only use is running away and flagging in ctf. It does super low damage, and the grade that sends you flying (forgot name) is suicide in PvE.

Lifegiver: Needs a revamp. Bad. It's almost useless on us squishy sorcerers since by the time we need it, we die anyway. Also, the health and mana regen upgrades are completely useless and are total wastes of 2 slots. The heal is very low, getting me max 60% back, while my rogue can heal 100% and warriors have an amazing HoT and protective shield.

Frost Bolt- Ice patch upgrade is terrible and wastes a slot, pretty good skill otherwise.

Sorcerers are supposed to be the support class, right? Well in PvP, the only supporting we do is curse and our awful heal. In fact at many levels, sorcerers are a hinderance to the team, and are swapped for rogues or warriors in PvP.

Lastly, Passives. The % Passives are almost all useless since they are overriden by higher pet % boosts. Like slag, it's a great pet but makes my speed and damage Passives useless.

Thanks for the thread by the way, we were all hoping for it.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CAK Vader]

Hi, I use random skill sets that even I don't understand, for warrior sorcerer AND rogue

[obee]

I'm obee, and I think you guys should implement path skills, one build just for PVe and one just for pvp

[Instanthumor]

Hey Fibus great to have you on the forums. If it does help you out, I'll post my opinions and builds later. Thanks!

[Madnex]

Brace yourselves, long detailed post incoming.

• What class do you primarily play?

Rogue (& Sorcerer, will later post on that).

• What are your current builds for PvE? PvP?

PvE:
1/5 -- Shadow Pierce
3/5 -- Noxious Bolt, no 6 targets, no 15% impact
3/5 -- Shadow Veil, no explosion, no 15% damage
3/5 -- Entangling Traps, no explosion, no bleed
4/5 -- Razor Shield, no bleed

5/5 -- Aimed Shot

5/5 Agility
5/5 Might
5/5 Knowledge

3/5 Critical Shot
3/5 Durable

PvP:
2/5 -- Shadow Pierce, just 10% heal upgrade
1/5 -- Noxious Bolt, just unlock
3/5 -- Shadow Veil, no explosion, no 15% damage
2/5 -- Razor Shield, just stun immunity

5/5 -- Aimed Shot
5/5 -- Medic Packs

5/5 Agility
5/5 Might
5/5 Knowledge

4/5 Critical Shot
3/5 Durable

• Which skills/upgrades do you like using and why?

There's not much room for preference here since currently picking the wrong skills makes you a weaker Rogue but I prefer Shadow Veil over Entangling Traps, mostly. I'm beginning to favor Razor Shield over Shadow Veil because in elites we can already do just fine even without the 20% armor buff while Razor's 20% dodge is a lifesaver in tough spots and an excellent tool that allows rogues to park mobs.

• Which skills/upgrades do you dislike using and why?

-Apart from passive damage which is useless since almost all the good pets already have 10%+ (which overrides the 5% from passive) and passive speed which, besides the reason we just mentioned, is also not making any considerable difference worthy of five skill points... then the skills/upgrades I dislike would be all of the non-working or glitched ones.

-Entangling Traps are a mess IMO. This thread explains why and has some nice suggestions on how to improve them. Also, this one.

-Shadow Storm Shot has extremely low AoE damage even with all the damage upgrades unlocked. On top of that it has no auto-aim -- not worth considering for any type of build.

You can find all of the glitched ones on the last three spoilers of this thread.

[Ebezaanec]

I primarily play a warrior and sometimes a mage

-The juggernaut bug should be addressed (removing movement impairment)
-I would also like to to see an upgrade to rally cry so it won't just be used for flagging or jarl runs.

For mage

-The heal needs an overhaul. Attracting aggro is not good for mage and the laughable regen upgrades are a waste
-I think the "displacement wave" upgrade for shield should be swapped for something more useful like a temporary armor boost after the shield runs out
-Like someone else mentioned, frost bolt's ice patch upgrade should be revamped. Not many enemies are killed with frost anyways

[Rhaindra]

Hi Fibus.. Hmm.. looking so serious.. ya . I'm use warrior. Make it usefull in PVE. Yes in elite map. Sometime rogue and mage ignore us bcs we only slow maker for them.

[Fauksuras]

Hi there

I use both Rogue and Warrior so I will answer Rogue first then Warrior. Both are level 41

Rogue

Current build

Pierce 1/5
Aimed Shot 5/5
Noxious Bolt 5/5
Combat Medic 5/5
Veil 4/5 (no decay)

Rest of the points are used in Passives

I like using those skills because

Pierce: Good for PVP as a finisher, killing some mobs in regular PVE and moving faster in maps. Awful in elite though
Noxious Bolt: Everything about this is good specially the fact it stacks over and over.
Aimed shot: Everything is good, too good, to the point it's a no brainer and makes everyone pretty much have the same build. Every upgrade synergizes well
Combat Medic: Great for PVP and every upgrade synergizes well with each other. Has uses in Elite
Veil: Good except for one upgrade (will discuss in a bit), works great in every aspect of them game (even in PVP if you can manage to have cover and fight on your terms)

Skills I dont like using and why
Entangling trap: I found most of its good upgrades very heavily based in procs to make it worthwhile or reliable. Basically great effects but not controllable or able to be done at will, now thats fine for a weapon but not on a skill that is occupying 25% of the things you can contribute to a fight or a run.

Decaying combustion (and similar effect in traps): Useless, damage is negligible, why does this exist? Maybe a similar effect to mage fireball(even if not as damaging) and it could bw worth something.

Shadow Storm Shot: this skill is just bad, no redeeming qualities, has to be aimed, awful damage and no good effects. It simply looks "cool", when I see somebody running with this skill I know 100% I dont want them on my party.

Razor shield : Honestly everything about it is good but it has a downfall, it requires you to be in the middle of the action or in suicidal mode, so it's not very useful in elites IMO because you want to be as far as possible from red zones or outside huge groups of mobs and in PVP distance dominates, rogues like kiting.


Warrior

Skyward Smash 2/5, just the stun
Whirlwind 3/5, Just the extra damage and extra durationn
Horn 5/5
Chest Splitter Extra damage, enfeeble
Juggernaut 5/5
Vengeful Blood 5/5

What I dont use and why.

Skywayrd Smash: the mana back sounds useful on paper but if you have Vengeful or pots its pretty redundant and ,again, not guaranteed. The extra targets/radius I had it once but barely noticed it
Whirlwind: Cripple isnt that good and cant remember the other upgrade hehe
Chest Splitter : the explosion didn't impress me
Axe Throw : not bad I just feel this is a PVP skill for warriors focused on getting kills and not actually on tanking/team fighting.
Rally Cry : only good to farm jarl, tried it once, honestly not worth it, specially on the harder maps now.

Additional Notes

Juggernaut needs some sort of tweaking IMO, it used to be terrific for elite (sacrificing an attack slot for extra survibability and taunt) but now the upgrade that heals you when you go below 25% isn't very worth it with the stronger mobs and in PVP rogues running with 50%+ crit.


Hope it helps

[Energizeric]

Before I answer the survey, I'd just like to say that I think the biggest thing you could do to help with the skill system is to disclose more about how various skills work. Right now much of it is a mystery and many of us are confused which skills upgrades actually work in PvP or only in PvE, and many of the descriptions are very vague. I'll give more details below...


What class do you primarily play?

Sorcerer


What are your current builds for PvE? PvP?

PvE for tombs: Fireball, Time Shift, Gale Force, Lifegiver

PvE for elites: Fireball, Lightning, Time Shift, Shield

PvE for arena/bosses: Fireball, Lightning, Frost, Shield

PvP: Frost, Lightning, Curse, Shield


Which skills/upgrades do you like using and why?
Which skills/upgrades do you dislike using and why?

Fireball
Engulf - good upgrade (I wouldn't change this one)
Ignite - good upgrade (I wouldn't change this one)
Impact - good upgrade (I wouldn't change this one)
Scorch - does this upgrade work in PvP or is this a PvE only skill? Just as the pet description for Samael explains that banish does not work in PvP, I think it would be nice if the skill upgrade descriptions also gave similar information.

Lightning Strike
Empowered Bolt - good upgrade
Electrical Discharge - this upgrade would be more useful if the percentages of triggering it were higher. As it is, most lightning strike attacks will not kill the target, so the real chance of triggering the effect is much less than the stated 15%/25%. Perhaps this effect should be triggered 15%/25% of the time regardless of whether the main target is killed by the attack. That would make this a much more useful upgrade.
Positive Surge - good upgrade
Shock - again, 25% just is not enough of a chance to make this a worthwhile upgrade, especially since Fireball has a much higher stun chance, and with stun immunity in PvP, you can only stun the target so often. This would be more useful if it were a 40% stun rate or perhaps if some other debuff was added along with the 25% stun rate.

Gale Force - this is probably the least used sorcerer skill, and I will explain why below...
Outward Squall - see below
Protective Current - see below
Speed of Wind - see below
Weighted Wind - good upgrade

Regarding Outward Squall, Protective Current, and Speed of Wind, these upgrades by themselves are all fine, except they do not function well together. For Gale Force to be a useful skill, I have to be able to use the speed burst at times when I'm trying to save time (such as flagging or running back to the boss after dying), but I also have to be able to use the AoE attack (Outward Squall) and the armor boost (Protective Current) when fighting in elites WITHOUT the speed burst. The problem here is the way these upgrades are laid out, if you charge the skill you get the AoE attack, armor boost AND the speed burst. If you don't charge, then you don't get any of them. Unlike all other sorcerer skills, this is the one skill where having all the upgrades makes it NOT be useful. So depending on which upgrades you take, it becomes a skill that is not useful in multiple areas.

So here is my suggestion on how to change the upgrades:

Outward Squall - this upgrade should trigger AoE attack whether or not the skill is charged.
Protective Current - this upgrade should trigger the armor boost whether or not the skill is charged.
Speed of Wind - this upgrade does not need to be changed provided that Outward Squall and Protective Current are changed as stated above.

Frost Bolt
Ice Welder - even though the description says there is only a 20% chance of this happening, it seems to happen almost 100% of the time. I suggest the description be changed to indicate what this upgrade really does. But other than that, this upgrade is fine as is.
Jagged Ice - good upgrade
Shiver - good upgrade (please clarify if this works in PvP or only in PvE)
Arctic Shatter - the least useful upgrade of any sorcerer skill - as with the Electrical Discharge upgrade to Lightning Strike, the chance of triggering this is so low because most attacks do not kill the target. To make this useful I suggest making it trigger 20% of the time regardless of whether the target is killed.

Arcane Shield
Extended Shield - good upgrade
Displacement Wave - not a very useful upgrade, in fact I don't know anyone who uses this upgrade. Most sorcerers lead with their shield into the battle, so no enemies are near them when they charge the shield. How about instead if enemies that attack you while your charged shield is up (any time during the 15 seconds) have a 20% chance of triggering the displacement wave which would then push everyone back at that time.
Static Resonance - good upgrade, but needs some clarification. Does this upgrade increase the damage reduction from 30% to 45%? Or does it increase the 30% amount by 15% resulting in 34.5%? Please make the description more clear.
Hardened Shielding - good upgrade

Time Shift
Dodge and Death - good upgrade, but unclear if the dodge reduction works in PvP, please clarify
Time Bomb - this upgrade would be more useful if the damage done by it was higher and closer to the damage of a regular attack. As is the damage is barely noticeable.
Countdown of Pain - good upgrade
Freeze Time - good upgrade for PvE, but seems to not do anything in PvP. Please clarify what effect, if any, this does in PvP. My opinion is that in PvP it should not stun, but should cause targets to be slowed even more than they already are by Time Shift without this upgrade. But this must be explained in the skill description.

Curse
Words of Weakening - problem with this is that it seems to lower the damage inflicted, but also the damage reflected back at the target. It should do the first, but not the second. This upgrade needs to be changed or else it is not useful as the whole point of curse is to reflect the damage.
Penetrating Curse - good upgrade
Lingering Curse - good upgrade
Sweeping Curse - good upgrade, and while it explains that the amount of affected targets is increased by 2, the main skill never says how many targets are affected by this skill without this upgrade. Same for range, this upgrade claims to increase the range by 2 meters, but the skill never states what the range is without this upgrade. Please add this info to the main skill description.

Lifegiver
Increased Ranged - I think to make this upgrade more useful, the range should be increased to be 10 meters, not 8. 8 is not enough of an increase to make it worthwhile, and often times players on your team are not close enough.
Empower - good upgrade
Regrowth - see below
Recharge Mana - see below

For Regrowth and Recharge Mana, I think instead of a fixed regen amount like 10 health/sec or 5 mana/sec, it needs to be a percentage increase, otherwise as we go up to higher levels it becomes useless, and if you make it higher to be useful at higher levels then it will be OP at lower levels. Instead how about the regen be 3% per second for both health and mana, meaning you get 30% over 10 seconds. Then it would actually become useful at end game.



As for what to do going forward, I think more passive upgrades need to be added. I suggest an 8th passive which is "health" and boosts heath 100 points for each skill point, and I suggest a total of 7 points allowed for each passive. This will solve the current problem that we have too many skill points and not enough places to put them all. It will also give end game players some extra health which I think we all agree is needed considering the current "one shot and dead" PvP environment at end game.

[Instanthumor]

• What class do you primarily play?
• What are your current builds for PvE? PvP? (If your builds are precious to you, I also accept private messages )
• Which skills/upgrades do you like using and why?
• Which skills/upgrades do you dislike using and why?
• Any additional information you want to tell us (but please try to keep it skills related)

From a mage's perspective...

This is what I use for PvP.

4/5 Shield (without pushback) - every single mage uses this, with the same upgrades. Meaning the pushback on shield is pretty useless. The shield is used in every situation in PvP, because without it, mages are nothing.

4/5 Fireball (without DoT) - this skill is fine. I will use the DoT in 1v1 rooms against rogues. There's nothing wrong with the DoT upgrade, it's just that without it, Curse doesn't hit me as hard. This skill is good for every situation in PvP. Good AoE, crowd control (stun), decent damage (since it hits all targets in range).

3/5 Lightning (without the stun and AoE) - I don't use the stun upgrade in clashes because it's a meager 25% chance to stun (while Fireball's stun is 100% when charged). The only time I would use the stun upgrade is in a particular build against warriors (where I need all the stun I can manage to get). There's nothing wrong with the AoE upgrade but it's just not for PvP purposes since mages don't do the majority of killing. Lightning, as you probably know, is a mage's strongest, single-target attack skill. Lightning is used in almost all PvP situations.

3/5 Lifegiver (with mana upgrade and HP regen) - In my opinion, this skill should get a slight buff. Although it's AoE compared to a rogue's Medic Packs, it's very weak. For a mage alone, it would heal about 60-80% HP, but when healing a warrior, it'll maybe heal ~20% (which sucks). The mana upgrade and increased range upgrade are fine. The regen upgrades should be buffed to par with the level the character is at. As of right now, nobody uses the mana regen upgrade because there's no point when the mana upgrade on Lifegiver already restores the majority of one's mana pool. As for the HP regen, a lot of mages use this one, but not because it is GOOD, because we need all the HP we can manage to get.

3/5 Curse (increased range & target # and increased duration, last two upgrades) - Curse is a really important skill for mages to have. In my opinion, all upgrades for Curse are fine as it is. The only reason why I don't max out my Curse is the lack of skill points (I tend to run a 6 skill build to be able to utilize all situations, and I need my passive points). Curse is only used in group battles or clashes (5v5's). As far as 1v1ing, Curse is not useful (as it is an AoE skill). There are many questions that want to be answered about Curse. Please, feel free to explain the legistics behind Curse here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...cations-please

3/5 Timeshift (dodge & death and DoT upgrades) - Many players underrate this skill in PvP, but it is an OP skill for clashing. The DoT drains the HP out of the DPS units on the opposing team, but Timeshift is not charged against a team with a Curse mage (instant death from DoT from Timeshift). The root upgrade on Timeshift is useless in PvP because it doesn't work. The exploding upgrade on Timeshift isn't used to salvage skill points. Timeshift has good crowd control, but there is one negative aspect. You can't tell where the clock will spawn. You might want it to land on this specific place, aim there, and see it land 10 feet away, and it sucks. It would be nice if Timeshift could auto-lock on the closest opponent. Timeshift is a good skill for clashing and is a decent alternative for Frost when 1v1ing rogues.

Frost - This skill isn't in my build because I lack skill points. It's a good single target offensive skill, hence the reason why it's in my 1v1 rogue build. The upgrades I use on Frost is Jagged Ice and Shiver. The other two upgrades are not worth it in PvP.

Gale Force - This skill is probably the weakest skill in a mage's barrage. Many players look down upon Gale, but if used correctly, it CAN be a decent skill to work with. The 50% armor bonus is quite efficient and Gale has very good AoE and crowd control (knockback). But on the downside, it's very weak, and as we are forced to play with only 4 skill slots, it is fair to say the Gale is a waste of a skill slot in an everyday PvP room. Mages will use Gale to flag, and that's about it, unless you're the couple individuals who like to play with Gale. I believe it is right to give Gale a slight buff.


These are my passives (in order from most important --> least important).

INT, STR, DEX, crit. If I do have any extra skill points, I will insert the rest into the Durable passive, though there's no realistic difference in gameplay (not that I can tell).


The above build is what I use and think for PvP. I'll let others give feedback on the PvE aspect. I hope this helped you out.

[Instanthumor]

the whole point of curse is to reflect the damage.

FYI Ener, Curse doesn't reflect damage. I just learned that a couple days ago. Read this thread and I'm sure you'll learn something new!

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...cations-please

[Instanthumor]

I would like to see a 5th slot enabled. It's difficult for me to stop and swap out light for clock at a boss and would be great to have both at my fingertips. Also, yes mage could use a boost with shield. We have no dodge and you guys have many PvE maps with wonky red zones. Either increase the duration of shield or decrease the cool down. It makes no sense how you can keep dropping clock but not popping shield, the timing doesn't feel right with these two skills that really need to work together in elites.

I agree with this. And not allowing skills to be swapped while under cooldown was stupid. Shame on you to whoever did that.