SnS PVP

[Bless]

Discussing and informing people who play Arcane Legends of the abilities of little pets like Shady and Surge is never nonsensical. Sorry for being nonsensical in your opinion of getting the numbers out there so everyone knows the power of SnS's ability.

So Shady and Surge's heal puts out potentially 4,960 to 6,560 respectively and 3 could potentially heal 14,880 to 19,680 health or the equivalent of 3 of my tanks.

When I design a house for a client and if even 2 of the 6 theoretical occupants is unhappy I never say 'too bad'. Every customer is important and discussing things is in almost all cases healthy.

Discussing and putting opinions is not nonsensical, I agree. However, continuing after an aftermath has been reached is nonsensical in the sense that there will not be any further resources devoted to SnS. Also, I added another potentially in there. The heal output all depends on how long a character stays in the pool for. Every customer is indeed important, however, in this case you are not a customer. Unless you own a SnS, you are not a customer.

Customers are not only SnS owners. Otherwise there would be a seperate game for the 44 SnS owners called "SNS legends".

The pet affects the whole of PVP and everyone has a say. I don't care what the devs say right now - they said the same thing for Whimm and bulwark. Look at them now, both buffed despite saying they would not be.


SnS situation as it stands:
Hundreds of average pvpers > 44 SNS owners. Who will the devs listen to?
700~ dmg per second is not OP? It's the amount a nox bolt does which has a 2 sec cd.
800 heal per second is not OP? That is absurd.
Nobody is stupid enough to get a team with 5 SnS. They would use 2 or 3 SnS and samaels. Best of both OP worlds!
Who cares if people spent 100m for it? Others spent 30m for samael, 20m for mythic bow and 110m for ring - 160m~ worth and what happens? Gets pounded by SnS pool. Somebody should make a damn meme for this bs.

[Anarchist]

Discussing and putting opinions is not nonsensical, I agree. However, continuing after an aftermath has been reached is nonsensical in the sense that there will not be any further resources devoted to SnS. Also, I added another potentially in there. The heal output all depends on how long a character stays in the pool for. Every customer is indeed important, however, in this case you are not a customer. Unless you own a SnS, you are not a customer.

Says who?

Sts has put bold full stop marks to their decisions then still change it.
What are you trying to make us understand? That our feedbacks don't count?
You provided your feedback as a sns owner but its also good sts hears and listens to the feedbacks of non sns owners.
Its not just about the numbers which are insane even for a exclusive pet.
4.8k damage x pool is just "Lol wtf are you doing dude?".

I dunno what they tested in their office but imo the devs should organize a 5v5 clash between themselves give one team a SnS and leave the other without and see the results. Its like 8v5.

[Zeus]

Says who?

Sts has put bold full stop marks to their decisions then still change it.
What are you trying to make us understand? That our feedbacks don't count?
You provided your feedback as a sns owner but its also good sts hears and listens to the feedbacks of non sns owners.
Its not just about the numbers which are insane even for a exclusive pet.
4.8k damage x pool is just "Lol wtf are you doing dude?".

I dunno what they tested in their office but imo the devs should organize a 5v5 clash between themselves give one team a SnS and leave the other without and see the results. Its like 8v5.

Don't make it exclusive for all I care, but don't nerf it. It's saddening that one pet has to beat all pets *cough* Samael. Each pet should have a specialized use and play style - it's what makes for interesting play. Right now, STG has achieved that with SnS. There's no other arcane pet out that beats Samael in some categories.

Please stop listing exaggerations as well. The last I checked, developers listen to hard numbers and those are the suggestions they implement because they are backed by logic & proof.

@Bless
You can use Nox until mana runs out. Shady and Surge has an insanely long cool down time. Actually, longest of all arcane pets! So for a pool that lasts 8 secs, you can't compare the two.

[Speedofsound]

This is my honest opinion on the matter. I truly want pets that differ in usefulness but they need to be balanced. I would agree with slightly nerfing sns damage tick. Nothing major or close but just a slight nerf to the damage of the pools so it is still more useful than samael in clash since its exclusive...but not earth shattering OP.

[Anarchist]

This is my honest opinion on the matter. I truly want pets that differ in usefulness but they need to be balanced. I would agree with slightly nerfing sns damage tick. Nothing major or close but just a slight nerf to the damage of the pools so it is still more useful than samael in clash since its exclusive...but not earth shattering OP.

Exactly. We are not saying sts should be a vanity pet. It wasnt before.
I understand its due time sam gets overthrone but this is just too much. When a new exclusive pet will come and it will have to beat sns what would is aa be?

PvP banish?

[Anarchist]

Don't make it exclusive for all I care, but don't nerf it. It's saddening that one pet has to beat all pets *cough* Samael. Each pet should have a specialized use and play style - it's what makes for interesting play. Right now, STG has achieved that with SnS. There's no other arcane pet out that beats Samael in some categories.

Please stop listing exaggerations as well. The last I checked, developers listen to hard numbers and those are the suggestions they implement because they are backed by logic & proof.

@Bless
You can use Nox until mana runs out. Shady and Surge has an insanely long cool down time. Actually, longest of all arcane pets! So for a pool that lasts 8 secs, you can't compare the two.

Huh?

I repeated what you said about sns dealing 4800 damage x pool thats insane imo. Are you sure devs listen to hard numbers ? Cause if they did i dont understand how they can let a pet do:

4800 damage x pool at the low end, and 7200 damage at the high end.
14,400 to 21,600 total damage per AA.
Sns also have on its own a passive movement disturber bleed. When it works you move slower(its not bugged it works)


Is Shady and Surge a secret fourth class sts been working on?

[Remember Me]

As a fully geared rogue I am hit with 600 DMG it does more damage if crit.

Remiem said this is being looked into...

1.4k DMG per second at minimum from a pet AA is unnaceptable and I know many people will not play AL anymore if this nonsense continues..

The best pet should not be exclusive, this is wrong item mechanics.

Yes, 100% of the people supporting SnS right now benefit directly or indirectly from a friend owning a SnS, the rest of us who have to put up with this nonsense know the struggle.


#thestruggleisreal

[Zeus]

Exactly. We are not saying sts should be a vanity pet. It wasnt before.
I understand its due time sam gets overthrone but this is just too much. When a new exclusive pet will come and it will have to beat sns what would is aa be?

PvP banish?

Before, SnS was a vanity pet. It did not do much damage that HoTs could not negate, had a slow passive, so yes...it was horrid before. The damage could have been negated by stacking HoTs which is what happens when you stack Samael. Now, this is not the case. HoTs still reduce the damage but they do not negate it entirely.

[Zeus]

As a fully geared rogue I am hit with 600 DMG it does more damage if crit.

Remiem said this is being looked into...

1.4k DMG per second at minimum from a pet AA is unnaceptable and I know many people will not play AL anymore if this nonsense continues..

The best pet should not be exclusive, this is wrong item mechanics.

Yes, 100% of the people supporting SnS right now benefit directly or indirectly from a friend owning a SnS, the rest of us who have to put up with this nonsense know the struggle.


#thestruggleisreal

It does not do 600 damage & more if it crits. Remiem herself said this was incorrect when the QA team looked into it.

@Anarchist
I did not say that. What you are listing is possible damage outputs if an opponent is naive enough to stand in an SnS pool for the entire duration.

[Bless]

Exactly. We are not saying sts should be a vanity pet. It wasnt before.
I understand its due time sam gets overthrone but this is just too much. When a new exclusive pet will come and it will have to beat sns what would is aa be?

PvP banish?

Before, SnS was a vanity pet. It did not do much damage that HoTs could not negate, had a slow passive, so yes...it was horrid before. The damage could have been negated by stacking HoTs which is what happens when you stack Samael. Now, this is not the case. HoTs still reduce the damage but they do not negate it entirely.

It wasn't a vanity, it was a clash pet and even then it was OP when facing average pvpers. The new 100 dmg and HP just buffed it even more.

Sts just fixed something that wasnt broken, what a joke. The stacking pools were already OP as hell as it was in the ctf hallways.

[Zeus]

It wasn't a vanity, it was a clash pet and even then it was OP when facing average pvpers. The new 100 dmg and HP just buffed it even more.

Sts just fixed something that wasnt broken, what a joke. The stacking pools were already OP as hell as it was in the ctf hallways.

"It was OP when facing average PvPers"

They're average, that's why it's OP to them. Learn to combat it.

[UndeadJudge]

To be quite honest, a lot of people in this game complain about things that should really be part of PvP. In other games I play, popular strategies, builds, etc are called the "meta game". As such, the game is changing and people are just complaining that they cannot adapt. I wasn't here when Samael was released, but I'm pretty sure someone made a thread about it too. Now the meta game is changing, and people should just find a way to adapt.




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[Limsi]

Devs please take a look at this issue. Thanks.

[Zeus]

"It was OP when facing average PvPers"

They're average, that's why it's OP to them. Learn to combat it.

To be quite honest, a lot of people in this game complain about things that should really be part of PvP. In other games I play, popular strategies, builds, etc are called the "meta game". As such, the game is changing and people are just complaining that they cannot adapt. I wasn't here when Samael was released, but I'm pretty sure someone made a thread about it too. Now the meta game is changing, and people should just find a way to adapt.




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You won't believe the threads that people made over Samael, lol...

[mommyjane]

i could see that most complaints against SnS are coming from mags.
u guys cant avoid the pools? if thats the case why not stay away from pvp room when ur opponent has sns? OP price + OP hardwork = OP pet ofc.
i understand ur point that SnS has a huge gap compared to other arcane pet like whims which was exclusive too. but how players acquired those pets has a huge gap too , dont ya think so?

out of the topic question, some of ur members also won the pet after the event right? and u guys could afford to buy the pet. why didnt u keep some for ur guild for pvp clashes? if u guys only keep 3-5, this thread woudnt exist.

[Zeus]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTA...e_gdata_playerhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTA...e_gdata_player

Here's a video. I know, it's amazing that I survived! As you can see, the numbers are nowhere near what CTF is claiming.

[Bless]

i could see that most complaints against SnS are coming from mags.

I can see 100% of the support is from SnS owners/friends with benefits. And 31% of all SnS owners are Karms. So what? Its too OP for CTF rooms. In pve the nerf does not have to be applied.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTA...e_gdata_playerhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTA...e_gdata_player

Here's a video. I know, it's amazing that I survived! As you can see, the numbers arennowhere near what CTF is claiming.

That video just proved it. You should not need to use heals ON A PET. There is no game where the pet does more damage than the whole 5 people put together. There is no game where the opposite team are healing just because of a pet! Heals are wasted to keep alive from those pools. Its like another 2 rogues coming at you.

Tanks die in 3 seconds when stationary/running through pools. Nothing competes with that damage, it doesnt matter if its idiotic to run through, THAT KIND OF DMG FROM A PET IS ABSURD ANYWAYS. 700 heal and damage per second which lasts 8 seconds and is multiplied by 4? Thats crazy!

[UndeadJudge]

You forgot to mention when they make changes balance is a fundamental part of the change.

Definition of metagame:
Metagaming is any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.

The sns buff is not something that came outside of the game it was absurdly built in it by a developer.

Sns doesnt enhance the metagame cause there are few to non strategies that can be use to counter it. Sns owners says "move around the pool, why should you stand in them? Nobody would obviously stand in them genius, but we all know that you can be:

Slowed: by a clock/ by passive bleed of the pet/ ethyl.
Stunned: by the mage/ by the wars/ by maul proc/ charge attacks/pets.
Rooted:crawly/ gun proc.
Panicked: Samael/Slag.

In a clash at least one of this happens if not all and thats when any opponent will use its Sns, when 1/2 enemies can't move.

So how do you counter this, any PRATICABLE idea?



@Zeus people complain for anything they know hurts their/lowers their odds of winningthreatens their pockets. Including you.

Use vixen.


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[mommyjane]

I can see 100% of the support is from SnS owners/friends with benefits. And 31% of all SnS owners are Karms. So what? Its too OP for CTF rooms. In pve the nerf does not have to be applied.

r u admitting that u guys made this thread coz karma has 12-15 SnS(if im not mistaken) and it outnumbered magnum's SnS?
what if, u have 10 SnS and karma has only 1? would ya push sts to nerf the pet in pvp?

We paid 160m for our gear/pet.

Bow - 20m
Ring - 110m~
Samael or even sns since sns rogues die too- 30m

Last time I checked 160m > 100m.

whats with ur calculations? we r talking about the pet not ur gears and how much u paid for them.
if we r going to compute all our gears including sns the sum will leave ur mouth dropped open hunny.
bow-20m
ring-110m
sns-100m+
and we have more than 10 sns users in guild, who paid that much and worked hard to get that pet.

last time ive checked, 230m> 160m

u should have had bought sns too before so u wouldnt be crying here about its OPness.
but still, my point is dont be so one-sided on ur opinions. 100m+ isnt a joke price for a pet that u r requesting to be nerfed and be balanced as any other arcane pets that u can acquire from crates.

[Slovek]

Lmao, thats why I don't dignify replies for you. You barely understand what I'm saying!

By defending the current state of SnS, you don't care ANYWAYS about the hundreds of players who brought maxed gear for 150m+++ or the normal players spending 20m~ when they get 3-second-owned by SnS. So why should I care about the amount of plat /time they spent in order to earn the pets when I am opposing it because it is OP?

I doubt this will be fully understood but I want my point across .

she wouldntt understand (lol) lets just wait for devss response. hope they care about the other players as well...