Nekro Changes Discussion

[davidvilla]

I agree if I don't get either nekro or this new pet with 15 percent damage and 12 percent or more crit, ill be throughly disappointed.

I will quit right away. The issues I'm disappointed at the moment r still not addressed. When it first came out I spent 60m for it with a hope of being good. But now I don't think it gonna get fix or whatever. New Legendary pets are getting better and better with primary and secondary stat and here the so called buff is going to lower down more.
We need more power as mobs r getting stronger every new elite map. But still it doesn't even comes close to singe in comparison.
Afterall it was always a vanity pet.

[Carapace]

great overall package! one question regarding the additional speed buff: at the moment nekro slows enemies and will speed up players after the buff. how will that work out in pvp with nekro on each side? wich buff/debuff will win?

Good question, in this case based on the way we currently handle such things the negative aspect would trump the positive and both parties would be reduced in speed.

[Carapace]

Reading into the insights here I think buffing Nekro's damage to 15% is an interesting idea. I also concur that there is no reason to remove the +5 all stats, which results in a loss on passive stats. A compromise of +12 to all stats with the 15% damage is pretty attractive. In addition to the Damage, would it be interesting to give Nekro's AA shield a potentially specific protection against SnS's death pools, and a bonus inside for example?

Singe is not specifically a part of this discussion, however points brought up about his shield are not unheard. With Nekro's AA shield receiving a buff to speed and damage absorption, it may be fair to take a look at Singe's AA Shield and distinguish the two.

I do hear players in regard to SnS and its crazy stats, but as pointed about before we can't just compare one pet to another al day long as their are other options as well. In regards to the Gale Force skill combined with Nekro for example, this means you could potentially swap out Gale Force for another skill. There are multiple synergies that could piggy back on these improvements to Nekro, which is why toying with such things can be very delicate.

For players mentioning his use in PvE, what would you like to see that would be more helpful? The 15% stun also applies in PvE of course, so there is added CC on top of the ability to run away from PvE situations with the AA. Offensively he may need something for PvE however, so I'm open to ideas as I think on my own.

We'll keep the discussion going on this, how do these above changes sound?

TL;DR:

+15% Damage, +10% Crit, +12 STR/DEX/INT, +30 Primary, 8 Mana Regen

in addition to the other improvements already mentioned:

- Nekro receives a higher base damage then other pets in the game, including other arcane's. The overall net is the raw value of his damage base increases about 15% over other arcane pets at his level. This value then scales into the other abilities and damaging attacks, including his shield buff. This is a COMPONENT of how abilities and effects damage and the like are calculated, so it does not implicitly mean that he will "just be stronger than every other arcane, period" as each ability for every pet has their own calculations of relevance. This serves to help his shield absorption, and overall passive damage.

- Nekro's lvl 40+ passive attack now has a 15% chance to stun. This adheres to the normal stun immunity in PvP

- Nekro's Activated Ability Cooldown decreased from 40 seconds to 26 seconds

- Nekro's Activated Ability now additionally provides players with a 30% speed buff for 5 seconds. The intent here is that the defensive nature of his shield buff combined with the speed increase should save your butt in certain scenarios. Note that this is 5% more movement speed than you can acquire from speed elixirs and would apply a small boost even with the elixir active.

- Nekro's Activated Ability now deals more damage, as a result of his base attribute increase

- Nekro's passive attack rate has been increased from 1 attack every 2 seconds, to 1 attack every 1.8 seconds

- Fixed a bug related to his lvl 20-29 passive damage skill not doing its intended damage calculation

[Carapace]

Scorch isn't arcane -,-

Haha good catch, I get Singe and Scorch confused sometimes

[Zeus]

Protection against SnS pools would be epic, Cara! Would definitely add some interesting plays!

[lethaljade]

Whats its bonus now 15 all stats? I dint mind sacrificing 3 intel 3 dex and 3 str, im very happy with the 15 percent damage and extra 2 percent crit would also be appreciated may be pushing my luck there but putting it out there! Lol

[Veoemel]

While you are at it, why not also take a look into Scorch's shield? I mean they are 'family' afterall, aren't they?

[Zeus]

You got your dragons confused, Cara. Scorch has an AA shield, not Singe! :3

[davidvilla]

We all know couple of stat like 2/3 stat change isn't appealing anymore. As always been stated legendary has pretty solid stat. Nekro still need few improvement carapace. It has to be 15 stat and on arcane ability please add 5 all stat and 80 armor. Passive stun can only be experienced by level 40 plus and don't under estimate twinks who has those pets too. We have to consider the game has gone to the whole new level since para gem and now the crit gems came out. Lowering the primary and secondary stat will in fact affect the health and side stat as mana (which is already a major issue in game). 8 mana regeneration to be honest doesn't make ay sense at leven 40 41 where u need a big package of mana. U can put it as 6 regeneration but can add few more stats.

[Zeus]

We all know couple of stat like 2/3 stat change isn't appealing anymore. As always been stated legendary has pretty solid stat. Nekro still need few improvement carapace. It has to be 15 stat and on arcane ability please add 5 all stat and 80 armor. Passive stun can only be experienced by level 40 plus and don't under estimate twinks who has those pets too. We have to consider the game has gone to the whole new level since para gem and now the crit gems came out. Lowering the primary and secondary stat will in fact affect the health and side stat as mana (which is already a major issue in game). 8 mana regeneration to be honest doesn't make ay sense at leven 40 41 where u need a big package of mana. U can put it as 6 regeneration but can add few more stats.

Wow, that's a bit greedy. 80 armor too?

This is SnS level pet and even will provide some protection against SnS death pools. 15% is a nice buff and +12 to all is a large compromise. You need some middle ground. The AA also got a buff as well. I believe the reason for buff was to have a pet that is competitive on SnS level.

I have a Nekro too but I wouldn't ask that. There needs to be some form of fairness.

[Pyrogenie]

As many others have said before me. Please, do not look at pets from a personal level. Just because a pet might have outdated or supersede existing pets doesn't mean it should be nerfed. The current arcane pets, including Shady and Surge, have spent quite a large amount of time as king pets. The ideas generated with personal game do not generally contribute to the health of the game. Before starting, I would just like to say one thing: I am a Shady & Surge user.

Now, that being said. I do not think Shady & Surge deserves to be weakened. Previously, the pet was not worth the price the LB runners forced people to pay. Now, with current happiness bonus, it is! However, I do think there should be a pet that is comparable to SnS. As of right now, there's no pet like that which is an issue!

I am not saying that this pet has to be Nekro. Nekro, in my mind, has already received a good buff as it is. The 30% speed buff should not be underestimated. Keep in mind that Nekro's AA prior buff slows enemies and that will still exist after buff. So, on top of slowing down enemies, you and your allies are gaining 30% speed. What does that mean? You'll be moving 50-60% faster than your enemies which is a godsend for rogues who can swoop in and snipe their enemies. Keep in mind, I am a Nekro user as well. I would've appreciated a 15% damage boost as opposed to the existing 12% damage boost but I am okay with the fact that they did not. The AA is now something worth tapping and I am happy with that!

However, if the SnS equal is not going to be Nekro, then it should at least be Maridom. Give a happiness bonus as good as Shady & Surge, please! Shady & Surge has a good AA and good happiness bonus. However, since they're limited, I can only use the one that I have on rogue. I'd like to have an equal pet to use on alternative characters. It's a win-win for everyone, including the existing Shady & Surge users.

Basically the same thing I said. +1.

[davidvilla]

Wow, that's a bit greedy. 80 armor too?

This is SnS level pet and even will provide some protection against SnS death pools. 15% is a nice buff and +12 to all is a large compromise. You need some middle ground. The AA also got a buff as well. I believe the reason for buff was to have a pet that is competitive on SnS level.

I have a Nekro too but I wouldn't ask that. There needs to be some form of fairness.

Common mate u know it well 80 armor isn't much where the game is running around 2200 armor. May be not on the arcane ability but if happen to get on stat will be good to run elites. Like I said couple of stat on pet isn't that much simply cuz it doesn't have hp gain like samael and shady n surge. I know u own nekro and ur opinion to get it to this point of conversation is highly appreciated. I would be more than happy on my mage if I get 15 all stat 30 primary stat 15 perc damage, 10 per crit and 80 armor and 6 mana regen Followed by the a a of what carapace mentioned with buff of 5 stat for 5 seconds.
It's not much of an asking but has to be taken into consideration to make it really an appealing one to snatch it.

[Zeus]

Common mate u know it well 80 armor isn't much where the game is running around 2200 armor. May be not on the arcane ability but if happen to get on stat will be good to run elites. Like I said couple of stat on pet isn't that much simply cuz it doesn't have hp gain like samael and shady n surge. I know u own nekro and ur opinion to get it to this point of conversation is highly appreciated. I would be more than happy on my mage if I get 15 all stat 30 primary stat 15 perc damage, 10 per crit and 80 armor. Followed by the a a of what carapace mentioned with buff of 5 stat for 5 seconds.
It's not much of an asking but has to be taken into consideration to make it really an appealing one to snatch it.

If 80 armor isn't that much, you wouldn't be asking for it. I wouldn't get greedy...they may not even implement anything and then we're stuck at phase one. It seems that you want a pet with everything and no compromise. There's a reason other arcane pets exist as well. If you want no compromise, buy all of the arcane pets. One pet shouldn't be king in every category which is why as a SnS user, I agreed on buffing Nekro. At the same time, Nekro should not be king in every category as well. What is the point of a 100 pet stable if there's one best pet?

Nekro may not get health gain, but it gives a higher damaging attack compared to SnS and Samael as well as protecting against SnS death pools as well as the ability to move faster than anything else in the room while slowing down enemies as well. Did I forget to mention the terrify? You need to compromise a little.

[Carapace]

We all know couple of stat like 2/3 stat change isn't appealing anymore. As always been stated legendary has pretty solid stat. Nekro still need few improvement carapace. It has to be 15 stat and on arcane ability please add 5 all stat and 80 armor. Passive stun can only be experienced by level 40 plus and don't under estimate twinks who has those pets too. We have to consider the game has gone to the whole new level since para gem and now the crit gems came out. Lowering the primary and secondary stat will in fact affect the health and side stat as mana (which is already a major issue in game). 8 mana regeneration to be honest doesn't make ay sense at leven 40 41 where u need a big package of mana. U can put it as 6 regeneration but can add few more stats.

To the bigger point of making stats larger and larger, we have to be very careful how we do that. We're already talking about most high end pets adding 35-50 stat points to a single stat, so if we increased that to 55, 60, 70, 100, it starts to spiral out of control very quickly. Sometimes the obvious approach can have very serious effects in the long run when we have to yet again one up a previously amazing set of stats. Our approach now is more on a lateral movement scale, shifting around the stats we have without making them too over loaded.

AA is a good place to make more appropriate game play interesting and strategy based choices which we feel is good for the game.

In regards to the stun only at level 40+ you have a very valid point. I don't believe as high of a value would permeate down but adding the stun potential to his passive attack across all levels sounds fair. Something like:

1-9: 5% Stun Chance
10-19: 7.5% Stun Chance
20-29: 10% Stun Chance
30-39: 12.5% Stun Chance
40+ 15% stun Chance

[Kriticality]

if this new nekro isn't op, i don't know what is. Sick stats, sick aa, sns pools no prob, 15 damage, passive stun... etc etc Congrats to all the nekro users, I hope to join the ownership club soon. Great job Cara

[davidvilla]

If 80 armor isn't that much, you wouldn't be asking for it. I wouldn't get greedy...they may not even implement anything and then we're stuck at phase one. It seems that you want a pet with everything and no compromise. There's a reason other arcane pets exist as well. If you want no compromise, buy all of the arcane pets. One pet shouldn't be king in every category which is why as a SnS user, I agreed on buffing Nekro. At the same time, Nekro should not be king in every category as well. What is the point of a 100 pet stable if there's one best pet?

Nekro may not get health gain, but it gives a higher damaging attack compared to SnS and Samael as well as protecting against SnS death pools as well as the ability to move faster than anything else in the room while slowing down enemies as well. Did I forget to mention the terrify? You need to compromise a little.

I have no intention to get other arcane pet as I've already spent huge on this one. All I want is a pet which lasts for a season for least with a fame. Personally I farm elites more and pvp very very less. So for me pvp isn't a concern. If the arcane ability has something very protective from those elite boss 1 hit then yes I would love to get that and I couldn't agree more. And will be looking forward to this new born nekro

[Excuses]

Another buff-nerf.
Sorry but yeah. Again.


I think new stat looks good as a counter pet of sns. Shield + speed boost.

But too short Cd will make pvp imbalance again. Imagine when all 10 people have nekro. This might make both team invincible.
Especially on low level twink, 3-5 tanks with 5 nekro sound horrible to me. (and add 15% dmg on this invincible team? No way.)
This pet is rare but obtainable. I don't care about market, I just don't want to see a pet ruin pvp again.

Hope you guys stop buff-nerf cycle someday. I don't understand why nekro should be sns level. I rather like to see new pet with better ability, not buff old pets. Even mythic pet(yes I know scorch sucks, but) I want to see nekro-like mythic with better stat.

[davidvilla]

To the bigger point of making stats larger and larger, we have to be very careful how we do that. We're already talking about most high end pets adding 35-50 stat points to a single stat, so if we increased that to 55, 60, 70, 100, it starts to spiral out of control very quickly. Sometimes the obvious approach can have very serious effects in the long run when we have to yet again one up a previously amazing set of stats. Our approach now is more on a lateral movement scale, shifting around the stats we have without making them too over loaded.

AA is a good place to make more appropriate game play interesting and strategy based choices which we feel is good for the game.

In regards to the stun only at level 40+ you have a very valid point. I don't believe as high of a value would permeate down but adding the stun potential to his passive attack across all levels sounds fair. Something like:

1-9: 5% Stun Chance
10-19: 7.5% Stun Chance
20-29: 10% Stun Chance
30-39: 12.5% Stun Chance
40+ 15% stun Chance

Now my concern at this point is what will be the stun rate when cap keeps increasing. I do understand we can overcome few stat change by shifting our passive. But can I know how long the AA lasts for?

[Zeus]

I have no intention to get other arcane pet as I've already spent huge on this one. All I want is a pet which lasts for a season for least with a fame. Personally I farm elites more and pvp very very less. So for me pvp isn't a concern. If the arcane ability has something very protective from those elite boss 1 hit then yes I would love to get that and I couldn't agree more. And will be looking forward to this new born nekro

In your other posts, you said you opened Nekro on a L23 mage. You farm elites on a L23 mage? The pet is quite formidable with Carapace's changes. Be happy with it!

After all, it's not their fault you decided to spend 60M on a pet. I've spent 200M on imbued gear and you won't see me complaining that prices have fallen on it. What I complained about was that it wasn't worth the effort. Similar to that of Nekro. The stats were not worth the effort. Now they are, no?

What was their fault was not releasing a SnS competitor. With Nekro in play, they have remedied this.

[Zeus]

Now my concern at this point is what will be the stun rate when cap keeps increasing. I do understand we can overcome few stat change by shifting our passive. But can I know how long the AA lasts for?

The speed lasts for 5 seconds. Everything else is the same as before unless I'm mistaken? I'm fallible as well but just interpreting the information given to me.