Arena Chest Gem Unveil/Discussion

[Astride]

Rogue Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc hit reduced by 15%, dodge reduced by 10% for 6.5 seconds

Dev Carapace,
Dodge debuff for a rogue is not useful at all. I explain, the fast cd on the rogue skills leaves no time to use the normal attack. I for one can rarely recall the times i actually use normal attack both in pvp and pve except for stunning, to round it up the fact rogues can use aim shot+ nox bolt + shadow p consecutively without using normal attacks plus the fact skill attacks do not miss renders a 10% dodge debuff on enemies useless.

Another problem is this, if you look at the gem charts Haligali made you will notice that next season original gems primary stat will increase by +1 granting +7 on a grand but the other stat based gems will continue to give the same primary stat buff as this season.
This might become too much of a tradeoff making the original gems far more preferable if we consider the cost and difficulty in obtaining the other gems.

Regards.

[BaronB]

At 3.5% chance (or a possible stack not sure) this is very low and imo wont be that overpowered to PVP; how about changing mages gem proc to 3.5% chance to add 6.5% crit bonus and reduced target crit 6.5% ( 2-3 targets) within that 6.5 sec duration.

Id we go down the route of adding crit instead of taking it away... as good of an alternative to the proc it is, My quarrel is with the abysmal % of the original crit reduction.

If the gems proc chance is the same across all classes then why cant the % of proc ability be the same for each corresponding class?

Something along the lines of say a 10% crit reduction, armour reduction and dodge reduction respectively.

[epicrrr]

Id we go down the route of adding crit instead of taking it away... as good of an alternative to the proc it is, My quarrel is with the abysmal % of the original crit reduction.

If the gems proc chance is the same across all classes then why cant the % of proc ability be the same for each corresponding class?

Something along the lines of say a 10% crit reduction, armour reduction and dodge reduction respectively.

On 41 pvp clash or fights it doesnt last more than 60 secs *approx. IMO theres no use pumping that debuff % value. Now on low level - clashes last for *gasp more than 5 mins each wipeout this is where all the factors in your avatar get to be utilized and this is where the build building comes fun.

Crit reduction on mages actually doesnt sound beneficial to the other 50% of the community the PVE runners.

[BaronB]

On 41 pvp clash or fights it doesnt last more than 60 secs *approx. IMO theres no use pumping that debuff % value. Now on low level - clashes last for *gasp more than 5 mins each wipeout this is where all the factors in your avatar get to be utilized and this is where the build building comes fun.

Crit reduction on mages actually doesnt sound beneficial to the other 50% of the community the PVE runners.

Ill agree with the fact that a crit reduction is pretty pointless in pve, if we are to be stuck with this proc then at least make it of substantial value.

What i wont agree with, is you dismissing the fact that % value doesn't need pumping because of low lvl pvp.

The effects of these kind of gems should be intended of higher lvl/capped players due to needing to be of substantial lvl to be able to farm for the chests that drop them.

Creating content designed and intended for people who are not lvling is ridiculous and I wont entertain the topic on this thread =\

I repeat. 6.5% crit reduction and a 1.5 bleed proc just isn't a good enough package when compared to what warriors and rogues are getting on offer!

Keep it fair please.


#mage4life

[Astride]

Ill agree with the fact that a crit reduction is pretty pointless in pve, if we are to be stuck with this proc then at least make it of substantial value.

What i wont agree with, is you dismissing the fact that % value doesn't need pumping because of low lvl pvp.

The effects of these kind of gems should be intended of higher lvl/capped players due to needing to be of substantial lvl to be able to farm for the chests that drop them.

Creating content designed and intended for people who are not lvling is ridiculous and I wont entertain the topic on this thread =\

I repeat. 6.5% crit reduction and a 1.5 bleed proc just isn't a good enough package when compared to what warriors and rogues are getting on offer!

Keep it fair please.


#mage4life

Rogue Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc hit reduced by 15%, dodge reduced by 10% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc crit reduced by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds, and adds bleed that damages 1.5% health every second for 6 seconds (9% total, bosses would be immune or take a reduced amount of damage, say 0.5% per tick)

I suggest the dodge debuff is taken from rogues and given to the sorcer proc. While the bleed proc is taken from the sorcerers and given to the rogues. Something like snare or movement reduction+bleed wont be bad at all for a rogue, afterall slowing down the enemy is a defensive counter.

[Madnex]

Is this a joke, lol? If there's some imbalance in this gem's stats given it's towards the rogues (and warriors) that are left out.

1. Dodge and hit reduction are both useless in PvP since you cannot dodge skills only normal attacks nor you can miss with anything. Same goes for the most part of PvE too (mobs cannot dodge anything anyway and bosses are unaffected by hit%). So 8-10% damage debuff on target sounds fair.
2. The 3.5% chance to proc is the only abysmal thing here for warriors and rogues, comparing to mages. Even a single charged fireball hits MULTIPLE targets six times which --even if targeting a single enemy-- equals about two full skill combos of a rogue and even more skills and weapon swings for warriors. Don't even get me started on combining this with frost bolt's seven ticks plus the other 100 ticks from time shift (which has no maximum mob limit, so you can stack 10+ mobs).
3. Now on the warrior proc, doesn't it seem like our pets (or even a single warrior's pet) have a better chance of applying an armor debuff of a larger scale than 8%? Plus in PvP and boss fights this will be overridden by the 100% chance of Axe Throw's 10% armor reduction. Change it to diminishing +200 armor self buff or 5% damage reduction maybe.

[BaronB]

Is this a joke, lol? If there's some imbalance in this gem's stats given it's towards the rogues (and warriors) that are left out.

1. Dodge and hit reduction are both useless in PvP since you cannot dodge skills only normal attacks nor you can miss with anything. Same goes for the most part of PvE too (mobs cannot dodge anything anyway and bosses are unaffected by hit%). So 8-10% damage debuff on target sounds fair.
2. The 3.5% chance to proc is the only abysmal thing here for warriors and rogues, comparing to mages. Even a single charged fireball hits MULTIPLE targets six times which --even if targeting a single enemy-- equals about two full skill combos of a rogue and even more skills and weapon swings for warriors. Don't even get me started on combining this with frost bolt's seven ticks plus the other 100 ticks from time shift (which has no maximum mob limit, so you can stack 10+ mobs).
3. Now on the warrior proc, doesn't it seem like our pets (or even a single warrior's pet) have a better chance of applying an armor debuff of a larger scale than 8%? Plus in PvP and boss fights this will be overridden by the 100% chance of Axe Throw's 10% armor reduction. Change it to diminishing +200 armor self buff or 5% damage reduction maybe.

One problem we have with elite maps is 3 rogues decently geared can breeze handle map without any real need of any other classes.

Can also bring up how the class dominates pvp but sir.. please tell me how there is any injustice or unfairness towards the rogue class ?

In terms of the 3.5 proc rate.. if this is meassured on a skills hit count ie a clocks dot attack counting as a hit each time then ill admit mages will have the upper hand.

However if a hit is calculated towards the proc by the number of times you shoot off a skill then this would work in rogues favour with the low cd times on majourity of skills.

Which ever way you look at it rogues habe it good in arlor.. im not saying take away its sweets.. just maybe consider suger free treats going forward untill the sugar rush dies off.

[Vrazicak]

I love new gems since I got lvl 5 twink,which will really help me in boosting armor,thank you STG!

[goldmarket]

Is this a joke, lol? If there's some imbalance in this gem's stats given it's towards the rogues (and warriors) that are left out.

1. Dodge and hit reduction are both useless in PvP since you cannot dodge skills only normal attacks nor you can miss with anything. Same goes for the most part of PvE too (mobs cannot dodge anything anyway and bosses are unaffected by hit%). So 8-10% damage debuff on target sounds fair.
2. The 3.5% chance to proc is the only abysmal thing here for warriors and rogues, comparing to mages. Even a single charged fireball hits MULTIPLE targets six times which --even if targeting a single enemy-- equals about two full skill combos of a rogue and even more skills and weapon swings for warriors. Don't even get me started on combining this with frost bolt's seven ticks plus the other 100 ticks from time shift (which has no maximum mob limit, so you can stack 10+ mobs).
3. Now on the warrior proc, doesn't it seem like our pets (or even a single warrior's pet) have a better chance of applying an armor debuff of a larger scale than 8%? Plus in PvP and boss fights this will be overridden by the 100% chance of Axe Throw's 10% armor reduction. Change it to diminishing +200 armor self buff or 5% damage reduction maybe.

Did you just say hit reduction is useless in pvp? lol

[goldmarket]

One problem we have with elite maps is 3 rogues decently geared can breeze handle map without any real need of any other classes.

Can also bring up how the class dominates pvp but sir.. please tell me how there is any injustice or unfairness towards the rogue class ?

In terms of the 3.5 proc rate.. if this is meassured on a skills hit count ie a clocks dot attack counting as a hit each time then ill admit mages will have the upper hand.

However if a hit is calculated towards the proc by the number of times you shoot off a skill then this would work in rogues favour with the low cd times on majourity of skills.

Which ever way you look at it rogues habe it good in arlor.. im not saying take away its sweets.. just maybe consider suger free treats going forward untill the sugar rush dies off.

I agree with baronb

[Madnex]

One problem we have with elite maps is 3 rogues decently geared can breeze handle map without any real need of any other classes.

Can also bring up how the class dominates pvp but sir.. please tell me how there is any injustice or unfairness towards the rogue class ?

In terms of the 3.5 proc rate.. if this is measured on a skills hit count ie a clocks dot attack counting as a hit each time then ill admit mages will have the upper hand.

However if a hit is calculated towards the proc by the number of times you shoot off a skill then this would work in rogues favour with the low cd times on majourity of skills.

Which ever way you look at it rogues have it good in arlor.. I'm not saying take away its sweets.. just maybe consider sugar free treats going forward until the sugar rush dies off.

The procs per class would be as follows, and now would apply to PvP as well as PvE:

Rogue:
3.5% chance to doing damage (This includes dots) to reduce enemy hit by 15% for 6.5 seconds

Sorcerer:
3.5% chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce chance to Crit by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds

Warrior:
3.5% Chance on doing damage (this includes dots) to reduce armor by 8% for 6.5 seconds

This means that every single damage tick has a 3.5% chance to proc; there is not even the slightest doubt on mages going to proc significantly more consistently. This proc is a copy paste of the goblin ring and let me tell you, having played with it on mage, it goes off 5-6 times per mob cluster as mage in PvE and maybe less in PvP where time shift is not as useful but still dozen times more frequent than on rogue or warrior. Plus no one's using Nox in PvP as rogue due to its inefficiency and risk to trigger Jugg self-heal or be destructive to the rogue due to curse.

The issue of geared rogues being able to run any elite map without help will probably be addressed in the skill system revamp to make mages and mostly warriors more useful and wanted by elite running parties. This is irrelevant to the gem proc discussion.

Did you just say hit reduction is useless in pvp? lol

Do you even know what hit% reduction is? It's increasing the chance that PvE mobs *miss* and players can't miss using neither skills nor normal attacks in PvP. Learn before you "lol" in ignorance.

[goldmarket]

This means that every single damage tick has a 3.5% chance to proc; there is not even the slightest doubt on mages going to proc significantly more consistently. This proc is a copy paste of the goblin ring and let me tell you, having played with it on mage, it goes off 5-6 times per mob cluster as mage in PvE and maybe less in PvP where time shift is not as useful but still dozen times more frequent than on rogue or warrior. Plus no one's using Nox in PvP as rogue due to its inefficiency and risk to trigger Jugg self-heal or be destructive to the rogue due to curse.

The issue of geared rogues being able to run any elite map without help will probably be addressed in the skill system revamp to make mages and mostly warriors more useful and wanted by elite running parties. This is irrelevant to the gem proc discussion.

Do you even know what hit% reduction is? It's increasing the chance that PvE mobs *miss* and players can't miss using neither skills nor normal attacks in PvP. Learn before you "lol" in ignorance.

It's part of the game, what you expect or better we say who are you? do you think everything should be exactly as you wish to be!

[BaronB]

This means that every single damage tick has a 3.5% chance to proc; there is not even the slightest doubt on mages going to proc significantly more consistently. This proc is a copy paste of the goblin ring and let me tell you, having played with it on mage, it goes off 5-6 times per mob cluster as mage in PvE and maybe less in PvP where time shift is not as useful but still dozen times more frequent than on rogue or warrior. Plus no one's using Nox in PvP as rogue due to its inefficiency and risk to trigger Jugg self-heal or be destructive to the rogue due to curse.

The issue of geared rogues being able to run any elite map without help will probably be addressed in the skill system revamp to make mages and mostly warriors more useful and wanted by elite running parties. This is irrelevant to the gem proc discussion.

Do you even know what hit% reduction is? It's increasing the chance that PvE mobs *miss* and players can't miss using neither skills nor normal attacks in PvP. Learn before you "lol" in ignorance.

I cant comment as ive never had the pleasure of owning a goblin ring however..

Being told something will "probably" be fixed is as good as telling me "dont worry you cant pay your bills... you might win the lottery"

How long is a mage buff/skill revamp been over due ?

The issues with warriors has only more recently been highlighted and noted where as mages has had it way over due.

These gems shouldnt be seen as a fix to the need of using warriors or mages in maps your right but the package offered by these gems so far are more favourable to rogues at this moment in time, then warriors an then lastly to mages.

Unfortunately I might not be as clued up as some with the exact game mechanics as some of the other people that are posting suggestions and so far if you read through the thread most of the ideas that seem to have sparked a developers interests have been predominantly rogue players.

Like it or not this will always lead to some form of baised decisions which is fair enough as we all want our class to be the best but lets not keep allowing one particular class to have all the advantages.

I wouldnt be quite so sure about the lack of nox being used in pvp however... tho majourity of tanks use jugg.. not so many mages actually use curse.

But just because a rogue uses razor shield dosnt also mean mages in pvp have dropped fireball as they cant get the stun at the start anymore.


Keep the gem for rogues as it is.. fine... people are happy... but mage n war proc on gem need fixing to be more on par with rogue proc, and thats the underline concern here now.

[Rx8]

I cant comment as ive never had the pleasure of owning a goblin ring however..

Being told something will "probably" be fixed is as good as telling me "dont worry you cant pay your bills... you might win the lottery"

How long is a mage buff/skill revamp been over due ?

The issues with warriors has only more recently been highlighted and noted where as mages has had it way over due.

These gems shouldnt be seen as a fix to the need of using warriors or mages in maps your right but the package offered by these gems so far are more favourable to rogues at this moment in time, then warriors an then lastly to mages.

Unfortunately I might not be as clued up as some with the exact game mechanics as some of the other people that are posting suggestions and so far if you read through the thread most of the ideas that seem to have sparked a developers interests have been predominantly rogue players.

Like it or not this will always lead to some form of baised decisions which is fair enough as we all want our class to be the best but lets not keep allowing one particular class to have all the advantages.

I wouldnt be quite so sure about the lack of nox being used in pvp however... tho majourity of tanks use jugg.. not so many mages actually use curse.

But just because a rogue uses razor shield dosnt also mean mages in pvp have dropped fireball as they cant get the stun at the start anymore.


Keep the gem for rogues as it is.. fine... people are happy... but mage n war proc on gem need fixing to be more on par with rogue proc, and thats the underline concern here now.

Agreed. The major point is that these arent balances, i mean those gems...and stuff like that. They dont seem like much of a balance either, they just look more of an advantage. Those eye gems and paras are literally making rogues go from a normal to a skyrocketing damage blasters and crazy dodgers. The mage buff was so overlong due and when suddenly wars had a problem, an immidiate response? to the heck of it i feel sad to say that mages are actually being left alone! Show us, shower some love at us please.

[Madnex]

I'm done arguing. If you're incapable of grasping game mechanics and class design yet insist on focusing on mage buff because you don't have the skill/experience to play the most demanding and technical of AL's classes, it's best to leave this conversation at this. My suggestions and reasoning are above.

[epicrrr]

Ill agree with the fact that a crit reduction is pretty pointless in pve, if we are to be stuck with this proc then at least make it of substantial value.

What i wont agree with, is you dismissing the fact that % value doesn't need pumping because of low lvl pvp.

The effects of these kind of gems should be intended of higher lvl/capped players due to needing to be of substantial lvl to be able to farm for the chests that drop them.

Creating content designed and intended for people who are not lvling is ridiculous and I wont entertain the topic on this thread =\

In any case, 6.5% or 10% value on 3.5% chance wont have a balance changing effects on PVP but keeping it at the modest option of 6.5% for all levels seems to be the better choice.

[Raregem]

Cara,

It may be best to put this gem on the backburner until the new skill system is released and balances have been made. There seems to be too many issues from all sides twinks, end-game, warriors, mages and rogues. Maybe instead a new (not recolored) farm-able vanity in chests may be a decent substitute if it is awesome and doesn't drop very often.

[Nitamana]

Cara,

I think the arena gem proc still have big issues:
(1) Are the three proc types associated to the character class or to the gem class. If it is associated to the gem class, a player can have all proc which should not be intened. Too powerful for adding just 3 gems.
(2) Why the proc chance is the same 3.5% for both normal and grand gem.
(3) Can the proc chance be computed on normal attack or skill only and not on DoT damage? This makes more fairness to all class otherwise sorcerers will get far more benefit from the gem proc.

[Serancha]

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

Perhaps try making cursed skulls so they work well before making more proc gems?

Considering how that one flopped, wouldn't it be beneficial to get proc rates and stacking calculated and tested to the point where it's useful (yet not game breaking), before trying to work a formula on 3 more items of the same type?

[BaronB]

I'm done arguing. If you're incapable of grasping game mechanics and class design yet insist on focusing on mage buff because you don't have the skill/experience to play the most demanding and technical of AL's classes, it's best to leave this conversation at this. My suggestions and reasoning are above.

Rather then throwing your toys out the pram and start getting condescending, work with me here.

Way I look at this is say an average rogue has a base of 50% crit... my proc takes away just 3.2% of that for however many seconds.

Now a rogue gets a 10% dodge reduction over however many seconds...

Now with that in mind some please go find out the average dodge % mages have as a base stat as for me mine sits at 10.65%...

I also dont lack gears or pets.

For however many seconds a rogue during pvp will proc the chance to hit nearly every single time.

Thats my perspective and Im open for the idea to be sold to me that 6.5% crit reduction for a mage even the 1.5 bleed is relevant when much better alternatives exist.

I dont want to simply kick a fuss for the sake of it on a thread and I especially wouldn't want to jeopardize the opportunity of such a great idea coming into play ( I personally have been longing for armour gems since i first heard about para ).

If the rogue community is happy with the current modifications on the gem then YAY!! thats a 1/3 of the way there

I simply want to get more peoples attention to relook the proc on the mage just as rogues have done the same and unfortunately it does seem out of all the classes it is what it is at the moment rogues are the favoured ones.

Just about time other classes voiced out their opinions on what comes our for them rather then dictated by people biased to the opposing class
^.^