A big request from an old player. (Read this one, devs.)

[D-:]

Sections
I. Introduction
II. Regarding Low Level PvP as a Whole
III. ALL Forg Items
IV. ALL Halloween items
V. Bringing Back the Old Days
VI. Summary and Speculations
VII. What Could Be the Outcome (Pro & Con)



Introduction
Why I'm writing this is because of one reason and one reason only. Low Level and the Pre forg days. All of these points may SEEM like a lot, at first glance. But, these are just a minor issue of the big problem at hand. This "big problem" is Low Level. (45 and below is my idea of low level. Some DO say twink is anything below 75-77, and I highly disagree. Will get more to this later.)

Low level is, simply put, unbalanced. That's just to say the least. The problem I have is the constant use of forgotten items. All the newer people (or new gens, no offense) actually think they have some skill with these items. These items include; Forgotten Bows (Pink or Purples, doesn't matter), Halloween Items (Mostly Paws and Reapers) and Plat Packs (STR Only, there is no issue with dex or int packs.)
What my request is... To make all forgotten items and Halloween Items OBSOLETE.
Let's get into this more in depth.

Low Level PvP as a Whole
When you think of these low levels, most people (who pvp 56+ normally) will say it is full of arrogant kids with no skill, or you only have 14 skill points, (15 bear) and everyone uses the same build, making it boring and non energetic like their fast paced 56+ levels. Now, as I agree 56+ can be more fast paced and energetic as a whole, I 100% believe low level can be just as fast paced if you play with other good players. Well, not as fast paced, that's impossible due to the gear. If what happens in this thread DOES come true, it will be even more slow paced due to nuking capabilities going out the window for mages and bears (25-27 Forg mages and bears, specifically.) What I am trying to get at here is people 56+ who try any level at low level complains it is slow paced, because there is not a lot of FFA and very scarcely are there ever any CTF games (22-30.) If you meet the right people, you will let it be fast paced. People often don't FFA or CTF because of KDR, which is absurd in my opinion. If people could get past this mind set, like how if they lose and call excuses, they would be an overall better player. Don't find excuses for your loss, figure out what you did wrong, and improve it.

"The lower the level, the lower the maturity." was a quote I got from a 77. While he shall remained unnamed, I will say this is completely false. I've met some of my best friends in low level. Some of which I'm still in touch with today. I met Call (19 Bird), Sit (15 Mage, one of my best friends from 2011.), Wrathfulbeast (one of my good friends at 26, very helpful to everyone who is in need of help.) and Gundamsone (17 bear.) These are just naming a few. My name used to be "Lost" an 18 bird. People often disregard low level as a no skill place for kids who don't know what they are doing. If you were to truly get rid of all items such as forgotten items and Halloween Items, I believe it would make a better community overall.

ALL Forgotten Items
Now, as almost all of you know, forgotten items are overpowered. But some of you may NOT know they used to be even more overpowered. This was when they first came out. They had to be nerfed because you could auto attack 150+. This caused an absolute outrage across ALL low level brackets. Entertaining's 17 bear guide (which was SUPER immersive for the time period) went from amazing to him saying a few sentences that went like this. "Buy fbow, rage, stomp, spam slashes, win." As a personal friend of Entertaining, he told me it took him around 3 1/2 - 4 hours to make his immersive and in depth guide for bear, and he decided to sacrifice all that time and effort to put just a few words. There is obviously something flawed with forgotten bows if this is what he did.

What I (and many other close friends of mine) propose is: Not to take forgotten items totally out of the game, but make their damage SO LOW that it cannot be used in PvP. This will keep collectors happy since it won't be totally removed out of the game, and it will make the lower level PvP brackets cause an uproar, both good and bad uproars. This decision obviously has pros and cons, which I'll get into in my VII. Pros And Cons section.

ALL Halloween Items
ALL Halloween items are highly sought after in low level. While these Halloween items don't make much of a change in the higher brackets, they most certainly do in the lower ones. "If you don't wear Halloween armor and helmet, you're doing it wrong." is what a low level once told me. This makes me in particular upset because you don't need a Halloween set to do well, in my opinion.

My proposition for this is similar to the forgotten items: Nerf all to be unusable in PvP.
Pros and cons will be in VII. Pros and Cons section as well.

Bringing Back the Old Days
Let bears, birds, and mages play Pre nerf if 49-. This would truly bring joy to my heart. Now, let me just say, (entirely opinion) you screwed up. On all 3 classes, not just bird.
For bird, you destroyed us. Making a bear have more dodge than a bird at almost all levels... Really? You killed birds ENTIRELY in the 35- brackets. No question about it.
For Mage, oh man. I can't be the only one that misses the good old 35 voodoo nukes. You made it less fun, and made all mages have less variety in builds.
For Bear, can't even remember. I never did bear before nerf. THAT BEING SAID, Pre nerf bear was probably a lot more fun than nerf bear.

Let us play Pre nerf if our level is below 50. You obviously won't do this though.
Summary
I want an answer, devs. Not just your usual "Sorry, not updating PL anymore" simple copy and paste answer. I want a real one. Why this can't happen. I'm almost POSITIVE you have a backup file prepared for pre nerf. This would not only benefit the entire low level community, but bring a hell of a lot more fun. This is not only regarding my point of view of "fun" but many others as well.

My speculation: This would bring nothing but more fun times, more people buying plat packs to be the best instead of Forgotten Items or Halloween. (Means more money in your pocket.) Since you obviously aren't updating the game, you should at least take this into consideration due to the simple fact all your updates (since 66 cap) have been nothing but benefiting high level players. Not a benefit for low level, if I recall correctly.

Pros and Cons
Forgotten Items
This is a big pro little con list. Let's get into it.

Pro: PvP will be like the old days.
Pro: You will definitely not get many egotistical people at the lower levels anymore due to there not being forgotten items to nuke others.
Pro: Almost the ENTIRE low level pvp community would thank you.
Con: Some collectors may be mad it doesn't do damage anymore, which why they would care, I have no idea. At least it wouldn't be removing forgotten items entirely.
Con: Newer players would complain due to the fact they can't play well anymore.

Halloween Items
Similar to forgotten items, this has a very similar pro and con list.

Pro: Drastically change PvP for the better.
*Rest of pros are with forgotten items*
Con: people who spent high amounts of money purchasing these items would have a problem. It would obviously be just a collector item.

This is all for now. Will be adding to this list later.
Let me know what you guys think. Do you disagree or agree? Why or why not? Would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

[D-:]

Reserved.

[bosstinytitan]

Interesting, but there is no one class that can't be killed by another. In any level

[D-:]

Interesting, but there is no one class that can't be killed by another. In any level

Well, if you've done bird at 30 now, you'd see what I'm saying. Or 26. Or 35. Or 18.

The point is, the 3 main classes at brackets 49- are unbalanced. What I personally thought was it was totally fine the way it was Pre nerf.

[Befs]

Please!!!!!!! Listen to what he said about the pre-nerf for 49 and under. I miss the voodoo nukes it made pvp much faster paced and intense as it should be. PLEASE give us a real answer if you can't implement this change.

[iamtony]

These ideas are very good. I've been a pvper since the very day pvp was implemented into pocket legends. I can even tell you what what I was doing when it went down for the update. This has always been a great game and I don't get the joy of 26 pvp anymore as I did pre nerf. Onyx warbirds were super fun and bears were fun too. One of my first characters ever made was wrathfulbeast. I didn't have the same name back then but I had that same character since before pvp was even implemented on this game. Not bragging here im just simply showing Im not some kind of random person saying stuff. I know sts said they wouldn't update anymore but this literally wouldn't take that much work. If they just took like an hour of their day to stop on AL and fix PL they'd still be fine with AL and PL at the same time. We're not asking for much here, one minor pvp update has been most of the community's wishes since fbows were nerfed. This would make everyone's day that still plays pl. Since you devs say how much PL means to you please put some serious thought into this devs. You guys stated you loved it so much you even had some of your kids names as the NPC's. If you loved it that much you'd rethink this idea.

-Tony

[johnny6880]

Good luck they only care aboutAL

[synfullmagic_23110]

The dev is here

[Charmstrange]

Fbows are great for pve, and I have a great collection of them for farming and leveling new toons. To call for *another* nerf of fbows is just pvp-centric and selfish. IMO, pvp had a huge negative impact on the game, and already sucked up too much focus.

Please post pvp balance issues in the pvp section, as you are clearly not valuing the position of pve players, merchants, etc. in your narrowly focused post.

Btw, there won't be any more updates.

[Groaning]

hurry guys sell all your hallo and forgotten junk before they get nerfed >.<

[iamtony]

Fbows are great for pve, and I have a great collection of them for farming and leveling new toons. To call for *another* nerf of fbows is just pvp-centric and selfish. IMO, pvp had a huge negative impact on the game, and already sucked up too much focus.

Please post pvp balance issues in the pvp section, as you are clearly not valuing the position of pve players, merchants, etc. in your narrowly focused post.

Btw, there won't be any more updates.

pvp section is dead

[AppleNoob]

I was here before the "Great Nerf" and after. One of the things I learned was that prenerf was the best times of PvP. Back then, it seemed that all the oldies/pros kept the egos back and now nobody is left because of a simple nerf.

That being said, this idea should not go into effect because many more people (the sole survivors of PL) will leave because suddenly their 1m paw is crap and they can no longer PvP.

I don't pretend to know everything however if this idea is implemented, you will kill this game.

[Groaning]

Fbows are great for pve, and I have a great collection of them for farming and leveling new toons. To call for *another* nerf of fbows is just pvp-centric and selfish. IMO, pvp had a huge negative impact on the game, and already sucked up too much focus.

Please post pvp balance issues in the pvp section, as you are clearly not valuing the position of pve players, merchants, etc. in your narrowly focused post.

Btw, there won't be any more updates.

for most of us pvp is one of the few reasons we still play so he is speaking to most of the population

[Burstnuke]

It's not just low levels anymore (never was) IMO, at lvl 50 all are from lvl 40 with plat packs. They all have huge egos. 56 egos aren't common anymore, 50-51 though......Lol.

[Burstnuke]

I was here before the "Great Nerf" and after. One of the things I learned was that prenerf was the best times of PvP. Back then, it seemed that all the oldies/pros kept the egos back and now nobody is left because of a simple nerf.

That being said, this idea should not go into effect because many more people (the sole survivors of PL) will leave because suddenly their 1m paw is crap and they can no longer PvP.

I don't pretend to know everything however if this idea is implemented, you will kill this game.

Lol, you obviously weren't here when a bigger thing happened. When forgs were released it killed low level pvp, and from there it went downhill.

-There was no Variety between weapons just forgs.

-Halloween came out and it had op stats for some dumb reason which made lower lvl pvp worser.

-Egos started rising as all thought they were good with these op weapons which even brought more luck to lower lvls.

-Before forgs there was variety of builds as well.

Before forgs lower levels were so fun, if forgs never happened i think i would have still pvped down there.. Before forgs everyone tried varietes of Toys and SSC sets. Toys weren't overpowered vs SSC sets and both faired well against each other.
Back then you could choose from nuke, tank, or mixed build. All builds were viable if they focused on their liking (tank, nuke, mixed). This was lvl 26 for me before forgs. I miss it so much IMO, and if this idea were implemented it would bring joy back to lower lvls.

And, before the great nerf lower lvl pvp was still bad, there were a lot of egos lol.

[DivineMoustache]

edit: read two posts below

I agree with most of your points except the most important one: Fbows/Paws/Str Packs don't automatically grant noobs skill. An f bow doesn't grant stomp range knowledge. A paw doesn't grant MS timing. The procs of the new generation weapons are often complained about, but they don't really affect more than 1/5 of fights. 4/5 of the time, the person who has more skill will win.

Another thing I have against further nerf of fbows/whatever/etc. is that by removing their usefulness to PvP, you're forcing low level PvP into using either:
a) Platinum exclusive items - when the best items are achievable via in game currency, it becomes something known as Pay to win.
b) Extremely expensive gold items- Fbows/paws cost around 3M, and are considered the best items at low level, and there's a decent enough supply to where pretty much anyone with the gold can find one. This is decently affordable. In comparison, the best items at the levels 10-30 (which is pretty much what an bow nerf would affect) would be narrowed down to Winter Fest SBLs (L15 Bear) and Toys (L15/25 Mage) which cost around 30M and allow people with insane amounts of gold to bottleneck the arena.

The further nerf of these items would also deal a devastating impact to the "balance" and variety that low level actually has. Low level is surprisingly balanced contrary to what many believe, there's just a stigma against it due to the immaturity of some members of the community (which is also silly, every level has immature people.) I'm just going to do a run down of what all would be pretty much eliminated from usefulness in low level PvP if these items are nerfed even more.
Fbows/paws/str packs have granted incredible variety and viability almost all the different classes in low level twinking, for example, L17 Rhinos with fbows can beat many L15 bow bears, and absolute demolish mages. Without an f bow, rhinos would be pretty much eliminated from the equation.

However, I think the true value of your post comes in the Low Level as a Whole section. You hit the nail on the head right there. You don't need to nerf fbows to bring back a sense of fun. Change the culture. Do some FFA in Low Level, as it can get just as exciting as any FFA in high level. If anything, you could remove everything else in your post besides this, and your message would stay the same to me. Want to make low level more appealing? don't blame the fbows. Change the culture.

[iamtony]

I agree with most of your points except the most important one: Fbows/Paws/Str Packs don't automatically grant noobs skill. An f bow doesn't grant stomp range knowledge. A paw doesn't grant MS timing. The procs of the new generation weapons are often complained about, but they don't really affect more than 1/5 of fights. 4/5 of the time, the person who has more skill will win.

Another thing I have against further nerf of fbows/whatever/etc. is that by removing them, you're forcing low level PvP into using either:
a) Platinum exclusive items - when the best items are achievable via in game currency, it becomes something known as Pay to win.
b) Extremely expensive gold items- Fbows/paws cost around 3M, and are considered the best items at low level, and there's a decent enough supply to where pretty much anyone with the gold can find one. This is decently affordable. In comparison, the best items at the levels 10-30 (which is pretty much what an bow nerf would affect) would be narrowed down to Winter Fest SBLs (L15 Bear) and Toys (L15/25 Mage) which cost around 30M and allow people with insane amounts of gold to bottleneck the arena.

The nerf of these items would also deal a devastating impact to the "balance" and variety that low level actually has. Low level is surprisingly balanced contrary to what many believe, there's just a stigma against it due to the immaturity of some members of the community (which is also silly, every level has immature people.) I'm just going to do a run down of what all would be pretty much eliminated from usefulness in low level PvP if these items are nerfed even more.
Fbows/paws/str packs have granted incredible variety and viability almost all the different classes in low level twinking, for example, L17 Rhinos with fbows can beat many L15 bow bears, and absolute demolish mages. Without an f bow, rhinos would be pretty much eliminated from the equation.

However, I think the true value of your post comes in the Low Level as a Whole section. You hit the nail as a head right there. You don't need to nerf fbows to bring back a sense of fun. Change the culture. Do some FFA in Low Level, as it can get just as exciting as any FFA in high level. If anything, you could remove everything else in your post besides this, and your message would stay the same to me. Want to make low level more appealing? don't blame the fbows. Change the culture.

He never said remove them. He said make them so they have no damage.

[DivineMoustache]

He never said remove them. He said make them so they have no damage.

Yes please replace the word remove with "remove any usefulness in PvP"

[iamtony]

Yes please replace the word remove with "remove any usefulness in PvP"

Fbows/hallow stuff just make pvp have no skill. People who barely know their ranges jut spam skills and win.

[iamtony]

Also WF stuff is completely balanced with other gear.