Class balance analysis

[merch_master]

The following post is completely based on my experience and opinions; feedback is always welcome. Also its loooooooong *not for the weak of will*

A few days back i decided to switch to a rogue like most of the AL community. While i could have used elixirs/top gear/guild help to rush through; i decided this would be a good way to check out how class balance and gaming fares for the low lvls; since the balance is a disaster at endgame
So with no guild to my name, just a bunch of lvl scaled epics bought for 200g each i set off for an authentic AL experience.
What i experienced was wt4 is the most balanced map ( and dead city to an extent) ingame at low lvls.
Wt4 without a tank in 15-25 bracket was a nightmare ( keeping in mind i was only epic gear and made sure my random run partners werent too strong), while bracken/dead city/kraken were much much easier.
A pt with all 3 classes is preferable for wt4. The reasons i found were :-
- high direct hit mob density. Those skeletons towering up around you are no easy game and its extremely easy to get overwhelmed by sheer numbers. This means a tanks presence becomes necessary along with mage's crowd controlled skills to keep them stunned/frozen/slowed for breathing space.
- strong hitting long range witches. Yet even at those levels, a sole tank team is of no use. The skeletons will keep you busy long enough for the witches to keep hitting you( and they hit hard enough) from a distance. A group of 3-4 can take one war down with ease if there are enough mobs to keep them busy.
- not enough space for kiting and seperation tactics, too tough to run circles around mobs with a limited space ( makes tanks even more useful)

While dead city employs similar tactics; the skele mobs as well as archers are too weak to be much bother and much wider space.
Now an analysis of everything wrong with endgame. Let us look at the latest additions
TINDIRIN
Mob density is low , but mob hits are high. Quick kills are much needed
The ratio of long range to short range mobs is widely off ; making it useless to try to tank them
While a lot of bosses can hit long range and thus trouble rogues ; the red zone is an easy give away and can be worked around.
However, the first wt boss is brilliant at this. When hits are from a certain range ( usually for nox and aim) the boss rushes with no warning and deals heavy ( 2 shotable) damage. However this attack doesnt seem to trigger if the full pt is in close range. This makes rogues and mages susceptible to bosses and reduces their performance

PLANAR ARENA
This is a joke for warriors and mages. They are practically unneeded. Its potentially PVP , perfect rogue scenario.
Single bosses, most situations and heavy attacks requiring close range makes this a rogue dream. Also while the second point is also useful for mages; their extremely low use in boss fight keeps them out of this comparison.
A few examples:-
Proximity circle- Useless if you can stand in different corners of the arena. Bad only when two players need to be in close quarters
Glob/Frostir - Their hardest hits are close quarter hits
Only few like spiders and stahl provide a better balance.
A tentative solution could be a witch boss which sends out mobs of strong health and dps. The tanks / mages are needed to keep them busy while the rogue can go aftr the boss.
A dragon boss which does random no-red zone attacks like wt1 boss and has passive burn effect if a certain proximity range is crossed. Keeps dps classes close and hence needs tanks to distract the boss.
Loot table - Fail
Atleast something like even a vanity aftr X runs will help keep interest for other classes, since none can match an all rogue pt in speed of run
PLANAR TOMBS
Much much better than the rest in terms of both class balance and loot. +1000 to token system
Hard hitting mobs make this a good place. Yet the actual lynch points of this balance are the low health/ high hit giants and high health/ high hit mages which can be easily avoided. While this makes for a great stratergy and most parties still prefer diversity in classes; this makes it much easier to run without wars.
Also; the bosses dont respond well to taunts and rogue/mage taunts can even override a war taunt which makes wars pointless except to use a kelvin for stuns


While I agree; this wont solve the problem much since the core of the problem exists in the skill system
If wars are to be the support class; they need better buff skills. Except horn; we are useless in buffing.
A good change could be addition of a skill choice like rogue's veil; which buffs nearbly players.
Thus a 2 taunt/2 buff skill set will be a much more useful set for runs.
Any feedback is well appreciated

[Dimitrian]

Welp, +1 to this (i'm a warrior)

[Twinisland]

Pve is well balance but because of anks tanks are not needed anymore I doubt tanks are going to be used in new expansion.

[Newcomx]

Pve is well balance but because of anks tanks are not needed anymore I doubt tanks are going to be used in new expansion.

Warr definitely will be needed in the new expansion. Players always need warr for new map or else they will farm death too much . Its a part of learning new map process.

[merch_master]

Warr definitely will be needed in the new expansion. Players always need warr for new map or else they will farm death too much . Its a part of learning new map process.

And once a month has passed, you see the poor wars sitting outside maps and waiting for pts :,(

[merch_master]

Nice post Merch. Sounds like it was a fun little adventure as well.

I agree with you that the Arena is heavily in favor of rogues. It's single bosses, so there's really no need for any other class. I will give you one pointer from something you mentioned above regarding Stahl and spiders. There's a simple solution to this for rogues. Stand in the middle of the arena and only use Nox and Aimed. You can reach Stahl from any point so there's no need to move and, hence, no spiders.

With regards to Planar Tombs, I think it is also way too easy. There's no mob density anywhere. The only place we have a little mob density is in T2 on the 2nd pull but that's not even close to enough to justify a warrior, considering how much armor Sorrax has. T3 is a total joke; people just park the big guys then they just pick the rooms & pulls that are the easiest. Even if the big guys weren't parkable, what good would a warrior or mage be? It's not like they can be frozen or rooted.

Tindirin was actually fun for a long time but it was just way too easy. STS decided to slowly release gear over the course of 1.5 years so many of the players cried that it was too hard early on and the maps got nerfed. Let's not even look at Tindirin Wilds...they absolutely ruined that map. It used to be fun. It's a joke that Nordr is harder than Tindirin and Planar Tombs / Arena.

My hopes for the future expansion are that there are a lot of very difficult, dense mobs. This will make it harder for rogues and bring more of a need for mages and warriors. I hope they don't give the boss 50 million HP and armor so that a party without a rogue can still kill the boss in a decent amount of time, relative to the time it took to clear the mobs. I want to see all of the mobs have shorter leashes so that they cannot be parked. I would like the mobs to be able to be rooted, stunned, frozen or all of the above so that mages will be needed. Make the mobs naturally draw towards rogues so that a good tank will have to keep aggro.

I hope that STS will keep some of the older maps alive and full of farmable gear so that under geared players will have something to farm when the new maps come out. I also hope they don't rush to nerf the new maps when the new under geared and lesser skilled players complain that it is too difficult.

Such hopes .....Yeah we need better mob density and small spaces so these mobs cant be run around and kited ; but rather have to be faced head on ( like wt4)
The adventure is still going on. Only reached 25 yet; gonna see how the mid-level players are fairing next

[Bellaelda]

Yeah great ideas and I hope they look at all these things too!

Here's to hoping other classes are useful! Cheers

[Oursizes]

Yes, sts needs to implement this expansion so that it takes all 3 classes to complete elite maps effectively. Also they better not kill the already dead economy with the new expansion... Let farmers farm for real rewards, not luck based. Personally I don't mind 4 rogue parties, but they are very costly in terms of ankh. Make it so all 3 classes can run without changing average completion time too much. Dense mobs will need mage to stun and war to taunt, rogue to kill fast. Hope sts takes the right step this time...

[Newcomx]

And once a month has passed, you see the poor wars sitting outside maps and waiting for pts :,(

That is true unfortunately. After Rogue or Sorc learning to master the map, then usually War is left behind.

[Iinorex]

class balance? i saw a rogue name hot today in expedition with over 2k armour...still think warriors dont need buff sts?

[merch_master]

class balance? i saw a rogue name hot today in expedition with over 2k armour...still think warriors dont need buff sts?

Thats exactly what i have said bro