My opinions on Auto Level 41

[Dalmony]

I find this idea a good one too and I totally support it - for them to implement something like this, STS must be having a problem with many new players not actually seeing the game through to cap level- levelling up a bit and then getting bored and putting down the game never to return... if that trend continues it will lead to the game dying.

Less people sticking it through to endgame = less people buying plat and becoming long term investors in the game = the game eventually not bringing in enough money to make it worth developing expansions for... we all know what happened to Pocket Legends (development cost began to outweigh revenue from the game so development was stopped.)

This solution will help keep the community at end game alive: as people leave the game a steady flow of people will replace them, and this boost will hopefully keep the game accessible for casual players who want to just pick up a game and get right into it.

Let's not forget that the boost will not take the players all the way to the "elite" cap. It will simply allow new players to join us in the most relevant and current content where they will then have to level from 41 - 46 (no small feat from the looks of the required xp and more than enough time to be learning the mechanics of the game and of their chosen class).

Additionally.... we feel that we have learned by "levelling up" but realistically, most of the things we learn about build, auction, trade, game an map mechanics an so forth, we have learned that at the "end games" we have played along the way. It is the length of time we have spent playing the game which has lead us to the experience and knowledge we have not the fact that we played hermit in the tombs to rush through 5 levels at the start of each new expansion.

Finally - depending on the price, I can't see this idea suddenly introducing hoards of people boosting to level 41 for real life money... old players and regular plat spenders are likely to do this for alts but, a brand new face who has just downloaded the game and is immediately presented with "pay real money to hop up levels"... well that is a double edged sword as to whether they say yeah ok and take the bait, or whether they say "omg this game is obviously pay2win" and delete it straight away.

[Dalmony]

Looks like friends list will get bigger for pt and ignore list will be larger too. As carmine said, good chance this is because arcanes will be farmable now. The one main thing that will be ruined is pugs for reg maps. Will now be full of afkers and sss rogues begging for mana. We will have to make parties to even do pugs or solo them. But if it means being able to compete with plat buyers by all means go for it sts.

The people who choose to BUY PLAT for this option.... are not very likely to buy real life currency for a game and then get to cap level and just stand around begging in town, or annoying other players. They are more likely to BUY MORE PLAT and then open locked, or buy straight gold, or quickly find out what to buy for plat and sell for gold, then gear up to become more OP than most of us here XD

People who pay money for games are usually the ones who are serious about playing the game... they are likely to be quite savvy gamers who simply ask others and learn the ropes pretty quickly.

Let's not forget that this option is not just totally free to anyone who feels like doing it.

[Caabatric]

Quick Story:
I was pugging elite wilds with a war, mage, rogue, and myself(mage)
All of us were average geared so we got to the boss at 12 minutes parked the 2 guards when the war said kelvin.
This was around the time of planar tomb release and the Kelvin stun strategy very popular for average PUG parties.
(none of us used kelvin except the war)
Once the boss was dead the war called us noobs and left.

This is the difference between theoretical knowledge and knowledge through experience.
Now I am sure that player had read somewhere on the forums the kelvin stun strategy and how to park. He was also somewhat skilled at being a warrior.
Now imagine that same player, he wont know how to use horn, he would ram into huge #'s of mobs that he can't handle, he wouldn't keep aggro, and he would split up the mobs...

The argument that 30k xp is enough to figure out the ropes of the game is not true for many players. At level 1 these players are able to be guided by players to learn about builds, strategy etc.... Very few players will be willing to help out a level 41 with basics of the game. Most players will just read str, dex, int and say, "Strength is important to survive. Dex is important just to avoid attacks. Int is important for targeting mobs. Hmmmm since I can point my char in the direction that eliminates use for int. Lets just build super tanky since dodging is probably hard."(This is what I first thought when I first leveled up) Now imagine if this is a mage or rogue..... Imagine a rogue upgrading some of the glitched skills... Imagine a mage not charging any attacks..... This is all quite viable and very few people will give these people instruction on how to play, instead they will be mocked, made fun of, and ignored.
Please refer to the "When you were knew...." thread I think by Zylx to see what you are in store for as PUG's

[Dalmony]

Whether that person has paid to get 5 levels from cap or not, they are still going to have to wait til they actually cap to learn elite strategy, because nobody actually uses those strategies in normal dungeons anyway.
How often do we see people parking the Elite guards in normal wilds? I personally never have...

I think the steepest learning curve for any player hits when they reach a level cap for the first time.

From the way people are talking youd think that currently, new players reach cap level and enter elites with a perfect build and amazing tactics which clearly is not the case.

[Tatman]

Let's be honest now. No-one here spends their time ingame teaching random low level players how to run endgame elites or which skills are bugged. The odds of learning anything useful (useful for endgame) while levelling are close to zero. Who exactly will teach a level 13 warrior how to park the guards in elite Wilds? Another level 13 from one of their levelling pugs?

It's much more likely to hone your endgame skills, um.. at endgame.

[Caabatric]

Whether that person has paid to get 5 levels from cap or not, they are still going to have to wait til they actually cap to learn elite strategy, because nobody actually uses those strategies in normal dungeons anyway.
How often do we see people parking the Elite guards in normal wilds? I personally never have...

I think the steepest learning curve for any player hits when they reach a level cap for the first time.

From the way people are talking youd think that currently, new players reach cap level and enter elites with a perfect build and amazing tactics which clearly is not the case.

However, by leveling up you learn how to use your skills (charge uncharge etc.), to an extent what skills to use, how to kite, and basic mechanics of the game.

Also, when most people enter elites they start at the very basics and go around with guildies. I personally wouldn't invite a level 41 with epic gear into my guild unless they were truly polite and willing to learn.... (may be a bit selfish but most people would agree with me here)


This level 41 wont know that pets give bonus stats, how to obtain pets, what the cs is...
These basic things can be picked up in the 30k sure, but still starting out will be rough for them, much harder than it would have been if they had started the game with normal progression. I do agree that going the way from 1-46 will be unnecessary however I still feel more time to learn the more subtle mechanics of the game will be required.

[Dex Scene]

Usually when something bothers me in game I say something about it here on forum. And i opened threads in the past and said exactly how i felt . But this autolevel is clearly not going to affect my living in this game. Why i should bother? STS gets supported and new players are going to be level 41. The players are not going to get a single item that worths millions if they are going to level up, it will be very hard for them to cap anyway without gold to spend on ankhs, pots and gear . Why do you care about others experience in AL? They are going to miss all the fun and the friends during their road from 1-41. Some people can call it cheatting, maybe it is... but are other cheats in this world that affects our real life living than a goddamned autolevel.

It's not any other MMORPG who lived and gets updated weekly like AL. I'm here because I understand now how hard is to make a game that has to survive for more than 3 years. And that's huge. Put yourself into their spot... would you work for free?

Lets not talk about working for free or keeping a game alive for 3 years cuz thats not the point of this thread .

It doesn't bother you. Fine. Chillex.
It bothers some people. Let them have their opinions.

We don't know yet if the price is going to be cheap for auto leveling. Same way we don't know if its gonna be costly either.

If the auto leveling is affordable, pugs gonna die in low level.
Endgamers will have bitter experience in pug than they ever had.
A game without good pug gonna be very bad experience for the people who don't have lots of friends.

People will do events in twink levels more and more and if the lb consists only endgamers they will level up to 41 in no time.

Dummy users, blockers will be more in endgame pvp.

Leveling up to 41 was an achievement. Not now anymore.

Whats next?
We can buy pve kills with plats?
Yes please it wont hamper our playing experience if they do so why bother.

[Caabatric]

Let's be honest now. No-one here spends their time ingame teaching random low level players how to run endgame elites or which skills are bugged. The odds of learning anything useful (useful for endgame) while levelling are close to zero. Who exactly will teach a level 13 warrior how to park the guards in elite Wilds? Another level 13 from one of their levelling pugs?

It's much more likely to hone your endgame skills, um.. at endgame.

Well since your in a endgame guild maybe you dont do this but our previous guild would always help players in our guild with builds, strategies and learning the mechanics of the game if one so desired to ask in chat. That said you have just proven my point. Your guild Enigimatic does a test run before allowing anyone join if your recruitment is the same. Would you invite that undergeared inexperienced level 41 to join your guild?

Disclaimer: <Enigimatic> has proven themselves to be a great pve guild in my eyes so please dont think of this as insulting the guild in any way.

[ClumsyCactus]

Lets not talk about working for free or keeping a game alive for 3 years cuz thats not the point of this thread .

It doesn't bother you. Fine. Chillex.
It bothers some people. Let them have their opinions.

We don't know yet if the price is going to be cheap for auto leveling. Same way we don't know if its gonna be costly either.

If the auto leveling is affordable, pugs gonna die in low level.
Endgamers will have bitter experience in pug than they ever had.
A game without good pug gonna be very bad experience for the people who don't have lots of friends.

People will do events in twink levels more and more and if the lb consists only endgamers they will level up to 41 in no time.

Dummy users, blockers will be more in endgame pvp.

Leveling up to 41 was an achievement. Not now anymore.

Whats next?
We can buy pve kills with plats?
Yes please it wont hamper our playing experience if they do so why bother.

Too much trueness in one post tbh!

[Hail]

So basically what I am reading is most of you want these new players to effortlessly grind maps/tombs and such continuously over and over - killing thousands of enemys just like you did? I do forward this motion of the auto boost to whatever the level is (41 right?). Why spend all this time, money on pots and hassle finding a decent team for tombs/bosses when you can easily get a head start in the game.
Of course the veterans can be angry. But what I conclude is you had to level to 16 - you got a break. Level to 21 - you got a break. Level to 26...and so on. There is a difference from making up these small levels than 1-46. It already is A LOT of xp.
All in all it should be an option for anyone.

If you are willing to spend money opening locked to get "rich" or to get "the best items" how is that different to spending money to save yourself time, gold and other struggles.

[Titanium]

Lets not talk about working for free or keeping a game alive for 3 years cuz thats not the point of this thread .

It doesn't bother you. Fine. Chillex.
It bothers some people. Let them have their opinions.

We don't know yet if the price is going to be cheap for auto leveling. Same way we don't know if its gonna be costly either.

If the auto leveling is affordable, pugs gonna die in low level.
Endgamers will have bitter experience in pug than they ever had.
A game without good pug gonna be very bad experience for the people who don't have lots of friends.

People will do events in twink levels more and more and if the lb consists only endgamers they will level up to 41 in no time.

Dummy users, blockers will be more in endgame pvp.

Leveling up to 41 was an achievement. Not now anymore.

Whats next?
We can buy pve kills with plats?
Yes please it wont hamper our playing experience if they do so why bother.

I tried last night to go with my alt in wt4 to remember how hard is to level up. And last time i leveled up a toon i did it without a party because it slows me down. And now i tried a different aproach I waited people to join. After i spammed 200 pots at the middle of the map some mage pulled 10000 mobs and all we died and then they all left. I was there alone like i was there one year ago when i was capping my my other toons.


Ask people who are pvping/pving back in season 3 or 4 about gear vs skill. If you have gear you will get invited everywhere event,elites even in pvp if you don't have any idea how to charge aim. You are their man... maybe they would make you an officer in their guild after a week. Skill was bought with gold for 3 seasons and counting.
People who actually know to pvp/pve have super arcane rarity. Why i'm telling you this? Because some people have no idea how to pve/pvp after one year playing and trust me i was there same like everyone else. Capping won't make you a guru in AL.

The autolevel feature was introduce on the forum same how nekro was introduce and every samael user started to whine why samael it won't be a king anymore since he appeared in Arlor in season 4. Nobody likes to be the third wheel of a car.

If some people are bothered and want to be helpful just don't try to "chew" same thought given by one person. Find a solution how to make it happen and will be more appropriate for you and for sts. I think it's good enough to skip only 15 levels, imo ! I'm not here to argue with you or anyone. I'm here to express how I feel about the autolevel. And take my word for it

[Tatman]

Well since your in a endgame guild maybe you dont do this but our previous guild would always help players in our guild with builds, strategies and learning the mechanics of the game if one so desired to ask in chat. That said you have just proven my point. Your guild Enigimatic does a test run before allowing anyone join if your recruitment is the same. Would you invite that undergeared inexperienced level 41 to join your guild?

Disclaimer: <Enigimatic> has proven themselves to be a great pve guild in my eyes so please dont think of this as insulting the guild in any way.

I haven't always been in Enigmatic (or in an endgame guild in general), so this is a moot point.

There is no point arguing any longer, I think we all said what we wanted to say about this. So I'll just answer your question. Yes, I would invite that undergeared inexperienced level 41, as long as they are willing to listen and learn. And no, this is not in theory, this is something I have actually done. I have never been and will never be in a guild where having high-end gear is a requirement to join.

[Candylicks]

I haven't always been in Enigmatic (or in an endgame guild in general), so this is a moot point.

There is no point arguing any longer, I think we all said what we wanted to say about this. So I'll just answer your question. Yes, I would invite that undergeared inexperienced level 41, as long as they are willing to listen and learn. And no, this is not in theory, this is something I have actually done. I have never been and will never be in a guild where having high-end gear is a requirement to join.

Not to mention tat been playing as a nab pink-geared mage n our guild for months now and pwning elites the whole time too.

[Oursizes]

Not to mention tat been playing as a nab pink-geared mage n our guild for months now and pwning elites the whole time too.

I can back this too. Before the market crashed entirely, I would run with tat on his mage and rogue. Mage would always have mobs stunned or rooted, and on rogue it would be extremely quick kills. Even in arena we would always try figuring out different ways to make different bosses/environments less of an ankh burn

[wvhills]

They did the same thing in Pocket Legends when the humania expansion came out. In a last ditch effort to save the game they gave anyone who had spent a certain amount in the game (I think $50 but may be wrong) a free pass to endgame. It ultimately didn't work because they didn't do anything to address what caused those players to quit in the first place (namely, elixirs).

Keep in mind when you pay money for a game you are paying for entertainment. You may feel that other people are being given something you have earned but you still have the memories/camaraderie you gained with leveling (and that's what you are paying for, entertainment). For years I've been advocating for an option to buy levels. There's way to much grinding in sts games for me. First you have to grind in tombs (the same maps for the last two years) then you grind more to get ur gear. All the mmo's I have played have a lot of grinding in them but the difference is the others are open world. There's only so many times I can run the same exact maps over and over before it becomes like a job rather than fun.

Also, don't try to over complicate how much skill it takes to master a class. Most end game builds and techniques are the same. It's not really that complicated learning each class. It's something that can be learned in a few runs.

[Caabatric]

I tried last night to go with my alt in wt4 to remember how hard is to level up. And last time i leveled up a toon i did it without a party because it slows me down. And now i tried a different aproach I waited people to join. After i spammed 200 pots at the middle of the map some mage pulled 10000 mobs and all we died and then they all left. I was there alone like i was there one year ago when i was capping my my other toons.


Ask people who are pvping/pving back in season 3 or 4 about gear vs skill. If you have gear you will get invited everywhere event,elites even in pvp if you don't have any idea how to charge aim. You are their man... maybe they would make you an officer in their guild after a week. Skill was bought with gold for 3 seasons and counting.
People who actually know to pvp/pve have super arcane rarity. Why i'm telling you this? Because some people have no idea how to pve/pvp after one year playing and trust me i was there same like everyone else. Capping won't make you a guru in AL.

The autolevel feature was introduce on the forum same how nekro was introduce and every samael user started to whine why samael it won't be a king anymore since he appeared in Arlor in season 4. Nobody likes to be the third wheel of a car.

If some people are bothered and want to be helpful just don't try to "chew" same thought given by one person. Find a solution how to make it happen and will be more appropriate for you and for sts. I think it's good enough to skip only 15 levels, imo ! I'm not here to argue with you or anyone. I'm here to express how I feel about the autolevel. And take my word for it

Agree with the bold.

[Dalmony]

However, by leveling up you learn how to use your skills (charge uncharge etc.), to an extent what skills to use, how to kite, and basic mechanics of the game.

Also, when most people enter elites they start at the very basics and go around with guildies. I personally wouldn't invite a level 41 with epic gear into my guild unless they were truly polite and willing to learn.... (may be a bit selfish but most people would agree with me here)


This level 41 wont know that pets give bonus stats, how to obtain pets, what the cs is...
These basic things can be picked up in the 30k sure, but still starting out will be rough for them, much harder than it would have been if they had started the game with normal progression. I do agree that going the way from 1-46 will be unnecessary however I still feel more time to learn the more subtle mechanics of the game will be required.

The basic mechanics of the game - the ones which people use during their levelling days, are really quite simple. Learning these extremely simple "non end-game" ropes of Arlor requires nothing more than just pointing these things out... Most more complex aspects of gameplay are learned at endgame, where the real fun starts (hence why giving people a bit of a boost in getting there might actually end with more players sticking with the game...).

A very easy solution to all of this: Create an extended tutorial for first toons: this tutorial would include the basics as it does now... you learn to attack and loot and equip gear right at the start, to charge your attacks for more damage, to summon pets from the stable and to take and turn in quests in the tutorial arc on your first passage through the brackenridge area anyway.

Two things really could be added:

1. A "tutorial" where everyone auto drops an egg from the first boss, followed by a "click me click here oh wow you looted a pet, now try
opening it" type dialogue (The betty quest shows us the stable but is a bit of a fail egg tutorial since it in no way shows where eggs
actually come from.)

2. A zoom in on the CS on arrival in Outpost (like the pan in shots which explain the allies, the plat store, the watchers tombs, and
the bard quests). Perhaps even a tutorial on how CS works since its no longer super intuitive and simple as it was when the game was
first created and might be the one thing new peeps might broken down for them a bit more. (though other members of the human race do
often have more intelligence than we give them credit for... I've even heard that they are often *shock* just as intelligent as us!! :-O) Lol



Once a player arrives in Travellers Outpost and completes the tutorial phase, THEN they would be presented with the option to level up manually, or skip to level 41.

They will then have learned these basics, and will spend their time levelling from 41 -> 46 applying them.

Once they hit cap after manually gaining 40,000xp and having a little bit of time to grasp the extremely difficult concept of using 4 skills charged and uncharged and using pots, they will just derp around alone until they are accepted into a guild, at which point they will be inducted into the "elite" ways of arlor by their kind and loving new guildies ^_^

Its really not such a big deal as people are making it out to be :3

Note: This boost to level 41 will be introduced not now, but when the cap is 46! It's not a boost ALL the way to endgame -.-"

[Bless]

Perfect solution: Make the Auto-level boost a player to one level under current cap and then they have to grind xp to get to the actual cap. Including pets (maybe can also be a separate service for pets if you don't like leveling pets).

[ClumsyCactus]

The basic mechanics of the game - the ones which people use during their levelling days, are really quite simple. Learning these extremely simple "non end-game" ropes of Arlor requires nothing more than just pointing these things out... Most more complex aspects of gameplay are learned at endgame, where the real fun starts (hence why giving people a bit of a boost in getting there might actually end with more players sticking with the game...).

A very easy solution to all of this: Create an extended tutorial for first toons: this tutorial would include the basics as it does now... you learn to attack and loot and equip gear right at the start, to charge your attacks for more damage, to summon pets from the stable and to take and turn in quests in the tutorial arc on your first passage through the brackenridge area anyway.

Two things really could be added:

1. A "tutorial" where everyone auto drops an egg from the first boss, followed by a "click me click here oh wow you looted a pet, now try
opening it" type dialogue (The betty quest shows us the stable but is a bit of a fail egg tutorial since it in no way shows where eggs
actually come from.)

2. A zoom in on the CS on arrival in Brackenridge (like the pan in shots which explain the allies, the plat store, the watchers tombs, and
the bard quests). Perhaps even a tutorial on how CS works since its no longer super intuitive and simple as it was when the game was
first created and might be the one thing new peeps might broken down for them a bit more. (though other members of the human race do
often have more intelligence than we give them credit for... I've even heard that they are often *shock* just as intelligent as us!! :-O) Lol


Once a player arrives in Brackenridge and completes the tutorial phase, THEN they would be presented with the option to level up manually, or skip to level 41.

They will then have learned these basics, and will spend their time levelling from 41 -> 46 applying them.

Once they hit cap after manually gaining 40,000xp and having a little bit of time to grasp the extremely difficult concept of using 4 skills charged and uncharged and using pots, they will just derp around alone until they are accepted into a guild, at which point they will be inducted into the "elite" ways of arlor by their kind and loving new guildies ^_^

Its really not such a big deal as people are making it out to be :3

Note: This boost to level 41 will be introduced not now, but when the cap is 46! It's not a boost ALL the way to endgame -.-"

Still don't agree about the "auto-level to 41 part" but i sure agree with having a better tutorial in general. I remember all my rookie-mistakes, and alot of them would have been prevented if i knew stuff like what the CS was, that strength is not recommended for rogues,that you could charge your skills, that pets wouldnt be gone forever if i "dismissed" them (I still think that it is more logic that STRENGTH adds damage than DEXTERITY)

[Zylx]

Perfect solution: Make the Auto-level boost a player to one level under current cap and then they have to grind xp to get to the actual cap. Including pets (maybe can also be a separate service for pets if you don't like leveling pets).

So you're saying changing the auto level from 41 to 45 is a better idea?