Suggestion: A Change In Warriors!

**MAlandM** · 04-19-2011, 03:44 AM

Hello all,
As you may have noticed by now, bears are warriors who have significantly high health and are really useful for tanking. They are the best class at the lower levels and they look quite cool! But... They are horrible at PvP and PvE, unless you decide to change your bear to a Dexterity Bear, a Dual Bear or a Intellect Bear.

What is this suggestion?
What I am suggesting is make warriors, or more specifically, bears more powerful, to have a different use from just Tanking or being dual.

Why should this happen?
Currently, most bears are successful in both PvP and PvE by being either dual, Dex Bear or Int Bear. Why? All successful archers aren't dual or Str or Int Birds, most successful enchantresses aren't dual, Str or Dex elfs. Why isn't this the case for bears?

A "balanced" MMORPG?
What do you think? Is this game at all balanced with the classes?
My answer is simple: No!
Why is that?
Well, everyone knows, within a game, all classes are supposed to be equal overall in power right? Well, in Pocket Legends, archers and enchantresses have a advantage over warriors due to the fact their attacks are ranged. Warriors have a disadvantage as their attacks are melee. So what is there to make up for this disadvantage?
The fact that warriors are weaker than enchantresses and archers? The fact that they are quite useless when doing PvP and only being pure Str? No!
These things make the disadvantage even worse. Currently, warriors are at a "HUGE" disadvantage compared to the other classes. They have lower attack. They have a lower dps (damage per second). They have a much lower Hit %. The only use for them is: Tanking. However what use is tanking when you are playing solo?

What should happen:
Firstly, everyone knows, within a battlefield, warriors damage their enemies the most. Then comes archers and "enchantresses". Within Pocket Legends, warriors damage their enemies the least. Stronger than them comes the archers and "enchantresses". Within a battlefield, warriors are most likely to hit the enemy due to the fact they are close up, so there is a bigger area they can attack compared to the others. In Pocket Legends, warriors have the lowest Hit %. Why? They are close up. Why should they have the lowest possibility of hitting the enemy, let alone actually damage them as much as enchantresses and archers do.

So what should happen is the gap of unevenness in the classes should close up. How will this happen? Making warriors have a much higher Hit %. Making warriors have access to much stronger weapons, increasing their damage, which increases their dps. Making warriors possibly faster? Well, they do need to catch their enemy first before anything else can happen. However, how will they "catch" their enemy if they are at the same speed, and the enemy is ranged? Actually, warriors need to be as strong as or even stronger than archers, after all, there needs to be something to make up for the disadvantage of being melee.

What will be the result of this?
More people will like and use warriors, but not too much. Warriors won't be massively underpowered any more. Warriors will become much more useful. Warriors will be able to solo maps more easily at the correct level (I can't solo any of my level maps at lv23. The best I can do is Dark Forest and I have got possibly the best equipment for my level). Warriors will be once again useful in the battlefield and Alterra will be more easily saved. Alterra won't be overloaded with archers or enchantresses any more! Warriors will come to the rescue, and help out the team! And even face enemies by themselves! Just like what the archers and enchantresses are able to do!

Thanks very much for your time,
Hopefully, we can save the Bear race!
Thanks again,
~Malandm

**Tamino** · 04-19-2011, 03:57 AM

Mhhh. Disagree. I started my first bear a few days ago and now it is 31. Yet at 30 with good weaponry I soloed all Swamp and Croc maps, what I never was able to do with my mage and my bird. I remember how powerless I feel with my bird just entering the Swamp map, and how confortable I feel now with the bear. Btw, it is a Dex Hybrid 100/54/1.

**Lesrider** · 04-19-2011, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tamino

Mhhh. Disagree. I started my first bear a few days ago and now it is 31. Yet at 30 with good weaponry I soloed all Swamp and Croc maps, what I never was able to do with my mage and my bird. I remember how powerless I feel with my bird just entering the Swamp map, and how confortable I feel now with the bear. Btw, it is a Dex Hybrid 100/54/1.

You kinda just proved his point with that last line.

**MAlandM** · 04-19-2011, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by Tamino

Mhhh. Disagree. I started my first bear a few days ago and now it is 31. Yet at 30 with good weaponry I soloed all Swamp and Croc maps, what I never was able to do with my mage and my bird. I remember how powerless I feel with my bird just entering the Swamp map, and how confortable I feel now with the bear. Btw, it is a Dex Hybrid 100/54/1.

My point is, to make a bear strong, you have to make it a hybrid or a dual. I'm sure you're not required to do that with a mage or archer.

**Tamino** · 04-19-2011, 05:13 AM

I reviewed calculation stat at hand (see post How to calculate your attributes using STR DEX and INT] ) if I went full STR I lost 10% hit and 5 DPS, and this is the post issue.

Could this be rebalanced? Probably yes, but I think the same could occur to M/s consumption for archers (no increment for DEX points) or health for both mages and archers. If dev rebalance we will have more similar stats among classes, and no way to differentiate, while now we can balance by ourselves or go full.

Anyway, I have a 61/19/200 lev 55 mage and a 71/193/11 lev 53 bird. Maybe I love hybrids?

**MAlandM** · 04-19-2011, 10:54 AM

I don't know... You may love hybrids but that doesn't change the fact that pure Str bears are useless in PvP or PvE solo.

**Echelong** · 04-19-2011, 11:40 AM

Warriors with full fury have the lowest hit % true but they also have the highest armor and dodge % plus a very high h/s. I don't know about pure str but dual spec warriors in str gear are very strong and hard to kill. Changing the stats of the warriors would make them Overpowered like they where when the game started.

You have to consider that you have to chose between pvp and pve for your build for warriors its pretty easy because dual works wonders for them. Dual allows you to be a full tank while still be good at pvp. I have seen a few warriors battle it out and they can win against any class using different tactics.

Edit: they aren't useless just no the best at soloing but they are one of the best when on a group if the player knows what he's doing. Every time I see a fellow pro bear join our group I am relieved that I wont get as much aggro and wont die as much as I would if I had to go head first with my bird.

**Ellyidol** · 04-19-2011, 12:48 PM

I don't want to come off as biased here, especially since I'm all-time bear, but I agree and disagree on some points.

Given a bear using the same gear as a bird/Mage, we actually have the highest damage because of our Rage. 60 damage right there from a buff. So when talking about damage alone, I'm pretty happy with my bear.

I do agree, however, of our range disadvantage. That's always been one of my biggest concerns in PvP from a bears perspective.

My argument is that given a bear vs a bird/mage, and given both are equally skilled in using their class, we are already at a disadvantage to both of them because of range.
While we, have no sort of advantage or chance other than human error and chance in play. Both mages/birds have numerous pushback skills and roots/freezes that are not only giving them the range again, but actually doing good damage.

Case in point, Str bear vs Dex bird. What can a bear try to do? 2 choices, beckon from as far as possible to pull bird in and fight, or charge in while trying to stun and kill bird. Either way, bird has 2 roots to choose from, and 1 pushback shot vs our one beckon (which brings up the issue of our Hit). The only way bears win in this case is by human error or dodge. The bird could not know what he's doing at all, easy win, or the bear could dodge these skills, easy win.

Case 2. Str bear vs int/Dex Mage. Same scenario, 2 initial choices for a bear, beckon or charge in. Mage can counter with 2 ice spells or 1 pushback. Not to mention their heals, drain, and shield, will pretty much give us two to threefold the disadvantage. How? A bears combo is stomp, pushing the target away. Unless you have completely pinned your target to a wall/tree, attempting to kill a mage through shield and heals by using stomp will only give them the ranged advantage again, back to square 1. Again, the only way for a bear to win is human error or chance.

It's true, bears have the best armour, dodge, and HS, but to get those we need to be using Strength gear, which like Ech said, would have the lowest Hit %.

So you can go tank bear and survive that initial range disadvantage, but still face the challenge of poor Hit %, or you can go bow bear and have really good Hit and Crit, but to face that range disadvantage and worse, with paper-like armour.

I choose the latter since I can control player skill vs the amount of Hit I can get in the first option, which is why I love my bow bear for Pvp.

When it comes to PvE, my bow bear seems to be doing really well too. Although not much of a powerhouse now with elixirs gone, I can find he can still perform pretty well.

On a different note for your suggestion, I don't think making bears have high hit, high damage and all on full Str would be balanced. Probably a higher Hit growth in strength, so that we can get more even if we dual. Probably a development of a new skill to better face the disadvantage of being melee vs ranged opponents.

In a nutshell, I do believe there are disadvantages, but I wouldn't say they are useless at all, in fact, far from it.

**MAlandM** · 04-19-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ellyidol

I don't want to come off as biased here, especially since I'm all-time bear, but I agree and disagree on some points.

Given a bear using the same gear as a bird/Mage, we actually have the highest damage because of our Rage. 60 damage right there from a buff. So when talking about damage alone, I'm pretty happy with my bear.

I do agree, however, of our range disadvantage. That's always been one of my biggest concerns in PvP from a bears perspective.

My argument is that given a bear vs a bird/mage, and given both are equally skilled in using their class, we are already at a disadvantage to both of them because of range.
While we, have no sort of advantage or chance other than human error and chance in play. Both mages/birds have numerous pushback skills and roots/freezes that are not only giving them the range again, but actually doing good damage.

Case in point, Str bear vs Dex bird. What can a bear try to do? 2 choices, beckon from as far as possible to pull bird in and fight, or charge in while trying to stun and kill bird. Either way, bird has 2 roots to choose from, and 1 pushback shot vs our one beckon (which brings up the issue of our Hit). The only way bears win in this case is by human error or dodge. The bird could not know what he's doing at all, easy win, or the bear could dodge these skills, easy win.

Case 2. Str bear vs int/Dex Mage. Same scenario, 2 initial choices for a bear, beckon or charge in. Mage can counter with 2 ice spells or 1 pushback. Not to mention their heals, drain, and shield, will pretty much give us two to threefold the disadvantage. How? A bears combo is stomp, pushing the target away. Unless you have completely pinned your target to a wall/tree, attempting to kill a mage through shield and heals by using stomp will only give them the ranged advantage again, back to square 1. Again, the only way for a bear to win is human error or chance.

It's true, bears have the best armour, dodge, and HS, but to get those we need to be using Strength gear, which like Ech said, would have the lowest Hit %.

So you can go tank bear and survive that initial range disadvantage, but still face the challenge of poor Hit %, or you can go bow bear and have really good Hit and Crit, but to face that range disadvantage and worse, with paper-like armour.

I choose the latter since I can control player skill vs the amount of Hit I can get in the first option, which is why I love my bow bear for Pvp.

When it comes to PvE, my bow bear seems to be doing really well too. Although not much of a powerhouse now with elixirs gone, I can find he can still perform pretty well.

On a different note for your suggestion, I don't think making bears have high hit, high damage and all on full Str would be balanced. Probably a higher Hit growth in strength, so that we can get more even if we dual. Probably a development of a new skill to better face the disadvantage of being melee vs ranged opponents.

In a nutshell, I do believe there are disadvantages, but I wouldn't say they are useless at all, in fact, far from it.

All your points are correct. I even agree that strength should increase your Hit % more, that is what I meant when I said increase their Hit %. I think they should do more damage due to their disadvantage. This will make it even. I think it will. Also, how can a bear charge in when the opponent can just run away?

**Ellyidol** · 04-19-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by MAlandM

All your points are correct. I even agree that strength should increase your Hit % more, that is what I meant when I said increase their Hit %. I think they should do more damage due to their disadvantage. This will make it even. I think it will. Also, how can a bear charge in when the opponent can just run away?

The damage can most probably be added to gear, that way we could still have the diversity of having different gear sets, much like Fortified vs Fury/Royal+Fury.

Bears can charge in because I've found it very rare that an opponent use skills and kite at the same time. If he does, he either only hits a few because of mistiming of range, or the bear can just step back entirely and end in a stalemate, you run forward and he steps back - no fight there.

It's only been though normal attacks and one skill that usually allows them to kite, in which case I step back if I don't see the point in it.

**MAlandM** · 04-19-2011, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ellyidol

The damage can most probably be added to gear, that way we could still have the diversity of having different gear sets, much like Fortified vs Fury/Royal+Fury.

Bears can charge in because I've found it very rare that an opponent use skills and kite at the same time. If he does, he either only hits a few because of mistiming of range, or the bear can just step back entirely and end in a stalemate, you run forward and he steps back - no fight there.

It's only been though normal attacks and one skill that usually allows them to kite, in which case I step back if I don't see the point in it.

However, a range opponent can kite and attack normally at the same time. There is no need for using skills when you can still slowly kill you're opponent and they cant do anything about it. Yeah, I think the items need to be stronger. Such as a fury fighter's gemstone battlesword needs to do at least 140-160+. A little lower is still ok. I think bears also need better skills, such as one where you can charge to your opponent at twice your normal speed and do a lot of damage and you cant let them run away. Now that'll be awesome! That should be the new hellscream!!!

**Duped** · 04-20-2011, 12:59 PM

I've noticed all the bear hate as well! I love to tank, but once you hit sewers, as a STR bear, you just plain stink at damaging enemies. Sure you can stay alive, and use health pots, but come on, as he said, our melee attacks should be more powerful. It's like comparing a dancer to a slugger in boxing. Sure the dancer will punch faster/land more, but the slugger is gonna put the hurting on once he gets inside. The low hit% of bears currently in sewer gear is very confusing. Let's sacrifice some h/s or m/s and up the hit please! I'd like for my bear to be a welcome addition to a level again.

BTW, the new mega combo's also up a bear's desirability which is nice.

**kamikazees** · 04-20-2011, 04:18 PM

How about making bears run 10% or 15% faster than other classes? That would help them close the distance and stay in hit range.

**Yoshura** · 04-20-2011, 09:14 PM

Totally agree with this, whats the point of having 200 armour if you can't even keep aggro? If your a full str bear at 55 with any pink set your hit percent will be like 70? That is utterly pathetic, half of your pulls and attacks won't happen the images and archers do so much damage a bear can't even keep aggro with taunt. Anymore then 1 bear in a team and I feel like its going to be a looong and horrible run.

**Ellyidol** · 04-20-2011, 10:45 PM

I don't think more movespeed would be the best move, since that would give us the advantage if we go bow bear.

I've been thinking about the possible tweaks they could do, and to be honest, there's really little room for big changes unless they massively change birds/mages skills, which would also mean that they suffer in PvE for our sake and there wouldn't be any good feedback on that, at all.

So in the end, I think the only changes they can make is buffing up the bear, and not touch any of the other classes. More damage and better Hit I hope.

**Conradin** · 04-20-2011, 10:53 PM

We need rane type weapons in my opinion. Like flails, long pikes to attack from range. Also ojt armor should be loaded with dodge and crit, in battle the warrior dodges and when he gets a good shot critical hits him in the face with a flail. Yeaa son.....

We do not need overpowered beara running around woth shocklances, any1 remember pvp in ao2? Anyways this game was not designed for pvp and so the pvp in this game isnt balanced.

**Ellyidol** · 04-20-2011, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by conradin

We need rane type weapons in my opinion. Like flails, long pikes to attack from range. Also ojt armor should be loaded with dodge and crit, in battle the warrior dodges and when he gets a good shot critical hits him in the face with a flail. Yeaa son.....

We do not need overpowered beara running around woth shocklances, any1 remember pvp in ao2? Anyways this game was not designed for pvp and so the pvp in this game isnt balanced.

I wasn't that active back in Ao2, but from what I've heard they were quite OP back then.

Probably not to that extent, but I don't see why warriors shouldn't have the highest damage granted they're melee, which is what the OP is trying to say anyway

I'd be happy with the current disadvantage if we were given more damage/hit to make up for it. Right now, we can't even get through a mage's mana shield even if he's on a 2H staff/bow - granted full buffs, full mana.

**Duped** · 04-21-2011, 10:26 AM

Exactly, it's like when my bear hit level 19 and got his hands on a board and nail, those were the days! I actually out DPS'd all classes. I wanna say even level 30 with the frosty hatchet it was the same, maybe there was a class that did better damage, but at least ours was higher commensurately.

We ought to be able to dish out as well as we can take