New damage tank trend in km3

[Oursizes]

If you die on km3 either you are way undergeared or got no gold for pots. Waiting on horn instead of using cnc and stunlock mobs nooNE will die. What I see these days not only some tanks fail. I see many many sorcerer who don't understand what's the purpose of their role. Hint >>>Cnc<<<. They suck at stunlock mobs.

Im trying to point out though that warriors were asking for a buff to hold aggro better, ironically many in such maps are dps wannabes now. Yes if someone dies in km3 then it is their fault, depending on the situation of course. But if a dps wannabe tank fails to hold aggro at the boss for even a second, you can't really blame the red zones aiming at the dps. The original intention of this thread was not to target any specific person, but just to bring back the issue of this and to discuss it. Now I don't know what happened but people started talking about other classes or something, which is why I've asked to not derail the thread.

[Transfordark]

Yea let's the blame the war for everything. Mages please stop blaming tanks just cause you couldn't prevent yourself from dying.

The main point is some tanks don't use heal on km3 as its such a weak map it doesn't even require heal and if you die its your fault since you don't use pots and you always rely on somebody else when you could have saved yourself.

Why are you guys even so obessed from dying, just get back up and continue rather than leaving maps.
What could we tanks do when mages are meant to be high damage dealers and stunners but when they can't do that so why should we tank for you?
Its all about co-operation, seriously why would you help you when you mages all around calling out wars are noobs.

[xcainnblecterx]

Had just made a thread about this but said for all maps. Unfortunately we can't say anything bad about warrios or they will rage. Guess we just need to let the purpose of tanks be forgotten in damage legnds

[Oursizes]

Yea let's the blame the war for everything. Mages please stop blaming tanks just cause you couldn't prevent yourself from dying.

The main point is some tanks don't use heal on km3 as its such a weak map it doesn't even require heal and if you die its your fault since you don't use pots and you always rely on somebody else when you could have saved yourself.

Why are you guys even so obessed from dying, just get back up and continue rather than leaving maps.
What could we tanks do when mages are meant to be high damage dealers and stunners but when they can't do that so why should we tank for you?
Its all about co-operation, seriously why would you help you when you mages all around calling out wars are noobs.

This thread is not meant about these "you mages". I don't think you've played endgame km3. Yes there are mages that suck but then again like avikk stated theres also warriors killing the first 2 mobs while the tean is halfway through the map. It's the responsibility of a warrior to be the first to hold aggro. But then it can also go the other way. If tanks cannot hold aggro for even a second, why should "you mages"(or whatever it is) stun mobs? Please if you want to speak of the faults of "you mages" feel free to open another thread. This thread is primarily to bring up the issue of this happening in regular maps, and the probability of it happening in elites in the future.

[Ucamaeben]

Every map has a rhythm, IMO, based on the map and the makeup of the party. A good pt will figure it out based on character strength and experience.

We usually figure it out after first mob.

[zerofort]

I can avoid dieing in km3 but it is nice 2 hav a war using hor exspecaly when u gather all 3 bosses when a war uses hor i cqn consintrate on killing a bit more

[Oursizes]

Even a tank with PVP build will have at least Horn, SS and CS usually, which is sufficient for a tank to do his job. If I have a tank in my PT, the only thing that I would want him to do is to run straight, as fast as he can, to round up the first set of mobs before the hallway where Harley is. After that group is dead, I'd want him to run straight to the right boss room and round those guys up. Kill bosses, remap, repeat.

A tank who is not first in KM3 is useless because he cannot hit anything while running and chasing, so he's gotta be first in the run, round up the pulls and heal...That's all he needs to do.

A tank with a pvp build can sometimes be irritating but if he has taunt skills and can move to the next group before dps then I generally dont have a problen with it(ive played with some tanks like this and the run was still just as good as full taunt build). Issue is they are trying to kill off the 1-2 mobs while dps tanks for them. No need for a tank in such maps if they cannot take the first few hits. It will take more time for dps to spam pots and skills instead of just skills while tank spams just pots and uses 1-2 skills.

[Kirysaki]

okay so..... i understand i should stop on all the mages and kill them... then move on ....
I am sorry I rather just do the pull use time fire gale ice and they are all dead.... it is considerably faster.. the problem is when I cant follow fire with gale fast enough so I dont get the armor buff and the mobs overpower me(yes my fault D: ).... If I use shield then with a random group that is actually fast I am wasting time....

Either way I have resorted to solo or will only run in guild / friend pt's now...

I feel like it's mostly a rogue's job to kill witches. That's what I, as a rogue, try to do, one aimed-pierce either kills them or reduces them to little health. If they don't die but are almost dead I leave them be since any mage aoe attack will kill them. If I miss with one of the skills... Well... My bad, I have to hit them one more time. Then run run run forward, pierce forward when possible (sometimes my arrows go forward and my pierce backwards *cringes*). Still learning how to km3 better... Faster...
My ideal of mage to run with would spam damage skills and stop briefly at the end of the corridor to kill any mobs pulled, ideally there would be so little you don''t need to stop much at all since there's no excess in mobs. Try to leave the witches to the rogues is what I'd say.

About damage warriors... Tbh I might be wrong but it's km3, you don't really need a tank imo. Deaths should mostly be because of Harley *glares at him*, although being a nab I happen to die to skeletons too... Slow potter here. Although if I do get to run with a warrior, I'd definitely want him to be in front of everyone else, but oh god... Most of the warriors I run with -even a war wearing lb vanity!-, pug or not, lag behind behind behind and it's so annoying; mages with Gale in front (squishiest class!), and tanks last ;_;
I've never played as a war so I wouldn't know but I believe a Skyward Smash is quite similar to Shadow Pierce? Dashes towards the closest mob? In a very good run when everything goes my way I can almost keep up with Gale using mages, although sadly I mostly lag behind a little. I'm sure warriors can do it too. Damage or not they *are* still tanks and should try to absorb as much damage as possible.

[Oursizes]

That's the problem with pugs. If you're farming KM3, the best thing is to find a group that you run with a lot so everyone knows how to play with one another. Maybe take the time to teach a war how you think they should play in the team and if he does well, make him a friend and run with him more often.

Can I make a suggestion though? You should have a mage for KM3. just a cheap one with legendary gear. You will benefit from this by doing faster runs and you will be able to find better PTs (pug or not). A mage with gale, fire, clock & light (with electric discharge) is so much faster that you'll recover the cost of investment within a day or two max. Just food for thought.

Interesting. I'll start gearing up my mage with some cheap gears, rogue is a huge pot burn at times(especially in pugs). Thanks for the suggestion! And yeah but the thing is many of the warriors are those that manually leveled from 1 to 46. I mean I thought it would be common sense by now. Auto level I can kind of understand.

[Bellaelda]

Ok...

Could be wrong, but I believe this is mostly cause people are just farming km3"for quick runs and probably aren't even paying attention to their parties (it's brain numbing farming).

For the most part most people don't need any kind of heal or aggro in this or similar zones. (though a shield after all three bosses are pulled together is nice, it's not needed... If your not half asleep while your farming it's easy to avoid dying, tbh)

I will in no way blame the tanks for my death in this zone... Though I do think that tanks should save their heals for last mob before the turn and for after all three bosses are together... It really doesn't matter in this area...

If u die in this zone at end game it's your own fault. Don't fall asleep, lol

[Edward Coug]

Ok...

Could be wrong, but I believe this is mostly cause people are just farming km3"for quick runs and probably aren't even paying attention to their parties (it's brain numbing farming).

For the most part most people don't need any kind of heal or aggro in this or similar zones. (though a shield after all three bosses are pulled together is nice, it's not needed... If your not half asleep while your farming it's easy to avoid dying, tbh)

I will in no way blame the tanks for my death in this zone... Though I do think that tanks should save their heals for last mob before the turn and for after all three bosses are together... It really doesn't matter in this area...

If u die in this zone at end game it's your own fault. Don't fall asleep, lol

Yep, it's a battle against boredom. I know some players obsess over fast times in Km3. I just can't get into it. The only time I can farm locks is when it's stupid lucrative or I'm watching a movie.

The new elites can't come soon enough.

[zerofort]

Very true bell

[Oursizes]

Yes km3 is an easy map, so easy we don't need warriors for runs. So we should run without warriors?

the only positive thing about warrior in runs is the heal(and the pulls, when the warrior is a legit PvEer) so please let's stop fooling ourselves about this. A mage's pot expenditure is a lot more than a tank's in km3. This pot expenditure goes higher up when there's a warrior in party, who isn't using heal and is under the delusion that his DPS skills are doing damage in a map where the mage skill sets just rule all.

we tanks can tank for a start.

We can't stun/freeze more than 10-16 mobs, sometimes a km3 pull can be 20-30 mobs and our clock might be under cooldown. Also the bosses, they hit hard, people without good gear would prefer a heal, as OP stated.
Last sentence doesn't really make sense to me. Neither do the other second and third last sentences. Obsessed from dying? Does dying cause obsession? If so what kind?

P.S. Sorry for late post, fell asleep on laptop after typing this...

Thanks for the support and understanding avikk. And I mean if they choose to not heal, it's fine. The least they can do is be the first to round up mobs and hold aggro, as shiny stated in a post, so that the dps can do their job and take out the mobs without having to worry about aggroing them so fast. This solely is a reason why many tanks do get left out of maps such as km3. Usually the dps always have to be the first to engage a group of mobs. Best way a warrior can be useful os if a group is at around 10-15% hp, move onto the next so that the dps dont need to worry about being swarmed by 1hits(rengol/elites) or a thousand skeletons(km3 and other tombs). They're just making 3 people do a 4 person job. This is not intended to attack any certain person, but to discuss the warrior class in general(for example ways to actually be a warrior, how you can not slow the team down, etc) for maps such as this. There has been good feedback in this thread, though yes some have been trying to derail it by making attempts to attack certain classes and/or players, etc. I do understand the issue about mages and rogues in km3, but if anyone wants to discuss that, feel free to make another thread as this was intended solely for warriors, thanks. I do hope many of those learning to play tank better (old or new, we were all noobs at one point)do take in the positive feedback and constructive criticism as people are just trying to help resolve many issues such as these before the new elites hit.
P.S.: I and many other players would definitely prefer to run even km3, a such simple map with an experienced warrior for many reasons
1) many of us have lepre and/or arlor ring equipped which lowers our hp by a bit. This means tanks are more crucial to holding aggro rather than dps just splitting the aggro, as its fairly easier to die.
2) 3 overlapping red zones of bosses, and one of them being one hitting harley. Self explanatory.
3) the sheer number of mobs. A good timed horn of renew can buy dps the extra 3 seconds needed to kill mobs and/or skill cooldowns.
4)jugg. Even if youre a meter or 2 ahead of the tank, jugg will cause mobs to focus on tank. This means its easier to round up and kill mobs at the same time.
Also this post was mainly for all to see, not just a reply to a select quote. The 2 minute timer is kinda bogus.

[Maarkus]

Thanks for the support and understanding avikk. And I mean if they choose to not heal, it's fine. The least they can do is be the first to round up mobs and hold aggro, as shiny stated in a post, so that the dps can do their job and take out the mobs without having to worry about aggroing them so fast. This solely is a reason why many tanks do get left out of maps such as km3. Usually the dps always have to be the first to engage a group of mobs. Best way a warrior can be useful os if a group is at around 10-15% hp, move onto the next so that the dps dont need to worry about being swarmed by 1hits(rengol/elites) or a thousand skeletons(km3 and other tombs). They're just making 3 people do a 4 person job. This is not intended to attack any certain person, but to discuss the warrior class in general(for example ways to actually be a warrior, how you can not slow the team down, etc) for maps such as this. There has been good feedback in this thread, though yes some have been trying to derail it by making attempts to attack certain classes and/or players, etc. I do understand the issue about mages and rogues in km3, but if anyone wants to discuss that, feel free to make another thread as this was intended solely for warriors, thanks. I do hope many of those learning to play tank better (old or new, we were all noobs at one point)do take in the positive feedback and constructive criticism as people are just trying to help resolve many issues such as these before the new elites hit.
P.S.: I and many other players would definitely prefer to run even km3, a such simple map with an experienced warrior for many reasons
1) many of us have lepre and/or arlor ring equipped which lowers our hp by a bit. This means tanks are more crucial to holding aggro rather than dps just splitting the aggro, as its fairly easier to die.
2) 3 overlapping red zones of bosses, and one of them being one hitting harley. Self explanatory.
3) the sheer number of mobs. A good timed horn of renew can buy dps the extra 3 seconds needed to kill mobs and/or skill cooldowns.
4)jugg. Even if youre a meter or 2 ahead of the tank, jugg will cause mobs to focus on tank. This means its easier to round up and kill mobs at the same time.
Also this post was mainly for all to see, not just a reply to a select quote. The 2 minute timer is kinda bogus.

Hi,
Not a km3 expert but your thread is interesting since im a pve focused war that belive in tanking and the realized i cant tank because other classes easily take aggro away from wars ( not to point out just an observation)
And i dont know if this will benefit the thread if it doesnt i apologise

I guess what im trying to say is Warriors who like to tank are currently facing a dillema.

1. For Party's that like fast runs: so should Wars focus on dmg/dps/crit in hopes of maintaining aggro?
2. For Party's that dont like a lot of deaths/pot spendature - should we go heall and full taunt?
If a war decides to please option 1 party ... Is the dps/dmg/crit enough to act as another toon to assist in killing mobs while holding aggro
If a war decides to please option 2 party ... Is the dps/dmg/crit enough to hold aggro - well obviously the heal skill helps but is it enough to maintain aggro

Do you see where im gettin at? Experienced Warriors know that taunts are not enough to hold aggro because once a taunt resets the threat counter a sudden spike of dmg/crit from and dps/dmg toon will over right it immediately thus the hybrid war builds in pve emerged.

As for those warriors who really have no clue what tanking is then at the moment they focus on dmg and dps why? Cos the initial impression is 'get dps... We want fast runs' this was the warriors burden... We were a burden to parties that wanted fast runs to maximise elixir and number of runs.

To be honest i really cannot blame veterans and new warriors ,we are so lost now in pve ... Either we act like a rogue to keep up or have a party accept that if we go full tank you loose 2-3mins per runs depending on the map.

I guess as i always say a warrior will need to adapt to the party for him to be efficient thus PUG may not be the best way to Run with warriors since we tend to keep to our style. When its a party that communicates then wars can respect ( if he is willing) to the parties' needs.

I just want to add one last thing. In my recent tests in T3 a warrior with 700dmg at 50crit and 900dps can solo T3 in 22-26mins. Recently i did a test with 837dmg 36crit 1005dps and soloed T3 in 13mins this leads me to belive that the trend will be to push Dps as high up as we can and pray that our taunt skills without hor will help maintain aggro for mobs but for bosses it is ineffectice due to the DOT/AOE dmg attacks

Hope this made sense if not pls ignore.

Thanks

Maarkus

[Oursizes]

Hi,
Not a km3 expert but your thread is interesting since im a pve focused war that belive in tanking and the realized i cant tank because other classes easily take aggro away from wars ( not to point out just an observation)
And i dont know if this will benefit the thread if it doesnt i apologise

I guess what im trying to say is Warriors who like to tank are currently facing a dillema.

1. For Party's that like fast runs: so should Wars focus on dmg/dps/crit in hopes of maintaining aggro?
2. For Party's that dont like a lot of deaths/pot spendature - should we go heall and full taunt?
If a war decides to please option 1 party ... Is the dps/dmg/crit enough to act as another toon to assist in killing mobs while holding aggro
If a war decides to please option 2 party ... Is the dps/dmg/crit enough to hold aggro - well obviously the heal skill helps but is it enough to maintain aggro

Do you see where im gettin at? Experienced Warriors know that taunts are not enough to hold aggro because once a taunt resets the threat counter a sudden spike of dmg/crit from and dps/dmg toon will over right it immediately thus the hybrid war builds in pve emerged.

As for those warriors who really have no clue what tanking is then at the moment they focus on dmg and dps why? Cos the initial impression is 'get dps... We want fast runs' this was the warriors burden... We were a burden to parties that wanted fast runs to maximise elixir and number of runs.

To be honest i really cannot blame veterans and new warriors ,we are so lost now in pve ... Either we act like a rogue to keep up or have a party accept that if we go full tank you loose 2-3mins per runs depending on the map.

I guess as i always say a warrior will need to adapt to the party for him to be efficient thus PUG may not be the best way to Run with warriors since we tend to keep to our style. When its a party that communicates then wars can respect ( if he is willing) to the parties' needs.

I just want to add one last thing. In my recent tests in T3 a warrior with 700dmg at 50crit and 900dps can solo T3 in 22-26mins. Recently i did a test with 837dmg 36crit 1005dps and soloed T3 in 13mins this leads me to belive that the trend will be to push Dps as high up as we can and pray that our taunt skills without hor will help maintain aggro for mobs but for bosses it is ineffectice due to the DOT/AOE dmg attacks

Hope this made sense if not pls ignore.

Thanks

Maarkus

Yeah the warriors taunt skills kind of suck right now. They do indeed need a buff. And that's kind of interesting. Would there be any combination of dps as well as taunt skills (doesnt matter if no heal) to keep maximum aggro? I used to play a warrior for a while until I never got invited to a party. The issue indeed is that any hit after a taunt skill will automatically generate aggro. I understand that there have been numerous threads created, one by you as well I believe, asking for buffs to warrior taunts, but has been overlooked by sts. Hopefully they will understand soon. As for fast runs/safe runs I guess it depends on the people. If they can afford the ankh burn they will go for fast runs. If not they will go for safe runs.

[Maarkus]

Yeah the warriors taunt skills kind of suck right now. They do indeed need a buff. And that's kind of interesting. Would there be any combination of dps as well as taunt skills (doesnt matter if no heal) to keep maximum aggro? I used to play a warrior for a while until I never got invited to a party. The issue indeed is that any hit after a taunt skill will automatically generate aggro. I understand that there have been numerous threads created, one by you as well I believe, asking for buffs to warrior taunts, but has been overlooked by sts. Hopefully they will understand soon. As for fast runs/safe runs I guess it depends on the people. If they can afford the ankh burn they will go for fast runs. If not they will go for safe runs.

Hi Oursizes

Regarding ur inquery, Crit plays a big Factor next to DPs so if possible maximise crit stat once ur dps hits 900-1k (with 30percent dmg elix) then crit can be at 32-36%
At lvl41 cap i used SS, CS,VB, HOR with imbued tactics set giving approx790dmg 48-50crit 800dps and it worked well to hold aggro even with OP rogues

At Lvl46 cap i unfortunately have not been running hardcore elites with OP rogues (no offense to those ive ran with @@ but recently no hard core runs anyway ) as they dont really need Tanks ( the sad fact of a warrior toons life) so i cant say @@ but so far CS,SS,Windmill,VB is my skill build for solo run testing but im sure when elites are on ill go back to CS,SS,VB,HOR, for party runs, Serancha has a really good explaination why CS is effective in taunts vs Jugg in PVE, as for VB its boost give that DMG/crit kick that a war needs to temporarily match rogue stats for maintaing aggro, then hit HOR once u see mobs dispersing and hope u taunt enough of them then CS kicks in again.

I hope this helps

Lets not give up on the Warrior toon even if it seems STS hasnt paid attention (or wont admit that they cant fix it - ahem 'hint..hint') ), cos if we do then STS wont really do anything so ur thread of hoping to inform warriors what a party needs in a specific situation is definitely interesting to me

Thanks for reading

Maarkus