classbalace - WHO are the ppl to judge?

[Zeus]

I have read through this thread and the others concerning the mage heal buff and have to say I'm a bit confused. So the problem is that rogues aren't really needed in clashes now? Or is it viable to have a single rogue in clashes still? Would this be comparable to having a pve team of 3 rogues and 1 mage? As in you would rather have 4 rogues most of the time but sometimes a mage is useful? Are rogues asked to leave clashes so you can run a team of 2 warriors and 3 mages or 3 warriors and 2 mages? The biggest question I have is whether this issue is as bad as warriors having no place in pve?

Rogues are asked to leave clash so their can have a team of 2 warriors and 3 mages if available.

[Zeus]

Would like to comment here.

Playstyle has nothing to do with gear etc, have to do with where u spend ur stats and stuff u got. If you know what I mean.

P.S.: inb4#googlestatistics

Huh? Build is where you spend your stats & the stuff you got. Playstyle, akin to strategy is how you use your build to defeat an opponent.

[Titanium]

Wait and see eye's price with 46 mythic set around . Many will lose their eyes/para from their current set. Mythic weapons lvl 41 will be replaced in next 2 month with something else. Jewels indeed are ... ( i can't find a non-meaner word to call them ) . I was looking forward for a new op gem/jewel during Ursoth event instead i got some wings... i'm adoring them ... no shhh !

[CheifR]

Lol @ Other MMO, AL is AL.

What statistics shows a fact? They're numbers on paper - rogues with 2.1k armor, 875dmg, 5khp are still far away from mages with 900+dmg, 45% crit, 1.5k armor, 5.7k+ hp. Do you even know what a mage is capable of? You clearly have no idea to play a mage then.

Well I definitely wouldn't say ANY rogue. Lots of rogues have no idea what they're doing either. Charging skills(bad unless you're really poor with no pots) , including shadow storm shot(bad), how they spec their skills and how they move has to be a little different since we don't have any invulnerability to catch are breah. The times in which it IS a good idea to charge nox and trap placement. It isn't just "click click click"

Edit: zz quoted wrong guy so sorry
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[Upperbound]

Agreed Roges are OP on any level. 15 level rogue with 150 damage AS crit for 1.5k to warrior with 800 armor. GG. two crits and war is dead. 10x damage for AS ROFL
On 46 they crit for 5k lol
STS cmon check your crit formulas. Its's not that hard for you... hmm. maybe

[Kingofninjas]

Well I definitely wouldn't say ANY rogue. Lots of rogues have no idea what they're doing either. Charging skills, including shadow storm shot, how they spec their skills and how they move has to be a little different since we don't have any invulnerability to catch are breah. The times in which it IS a good idea to charge nox and trap placement. It isn't just "click click click"

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Shadow storm shot has its place and time. In arena and easier tomb maps, it helps clear mobs faster and gives extra damage on boss. Also nox's poison dmg is so insignificant it is never a good idea to charge nox IMO.

[CheifR]

Shadow storm shot has its place and time. In arena and easier tomb maps, it helps clear mobs faster and gives extra damage on boss. Also nox's poison dmg is so insignificant it is never a good idea to charge nox IMO.

Shadow storm shot IMO is useless considering how very little damage it does. I've seen it hardly even do much if any damage to the spiders in arena + you'd have to charge it for the AoE but without the DoT affect and the extended cooldown when you can just substitute it for either pierce with the potential to do near the damage of an aimed shot, nox with a cd about 2x quicker and higher if not similar dmg. OR traps which do a very good amount of damage alone with the potential of an instantly reset cd and the VERY useful net. Veil can speed up the rate in which ur party kills the pull and works wonders for keeping everyone alive.

From experience it actually is pretty effective to RARELY charge nox but with pulls of 6+mobs in difficult elite maps. https://youtu.be/DxRu2V10ARs

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[Americabud]

Actually, I didn't screenshot you. Somebody else did and I was given the screenshot. I already have seen your stats as you've requested to fight me on numerous occasions, something we both know what the outcome was. As for your build, it's not far off from many maxed sorcerers.

My 1K damage is with elixirs - something that is not applicable in PvP. Heck, my PvP stats are even less than the screenshot provided due to debuffs that sorcerers seem to be ignoring every time. I do not manipulate my screenshots so please do not accuse me of such. I have 2K armor because I have 3 grand reinforced fire gems. If I did not, my armor would be significantly less. The only other way to get similar armor would be to use padded and sacrifice a significant amount of crit - another factor that you seem to be brushing aside.

My point is to prove that someone with your stats should not have a problem winning against a rogue like me, much less be complaining on forums that sorcerers are underpowered when the best sorcerers in the game do not ever do such acts. Why you're having issues killing rogues, I do not know. Perhaps, there is something wrong with your build or play style.

Lol I have no problem at all farming ALL day in tdm any class and anyone who visits tdm over CTF might telo you its my playground. 2:1 kdr in tdm and all without a guild. For each kill all alone, been ganged plenty but kdr is pretty easy for me so I take the gangs and even win somtetimes. As for our fights you beat me before the update and you beat me after the update really bad. So bad the last time I was hardly able to win at least 1/5 of the rounds... Granted I was horribly armoured in our fight after the update. Funny how you count every loss to me as a mistake on your part. About 3 days ago I was begging you for a vs I even saw you in my forest. DC/rc and you still were in my forest pmed you and all and you didn't reply. I was eager to embarrass you that day with the new heal update. And at least get as many kills of u as you'd get on me. Considering only 1 mage has ever beat you I'd say coming close to a tie would assure you I have no problems "killing rouges in the game" no problems with "my build and play style" ...I'm pro obviously. Furthermore does it matter you CLAIM took the screenshots of my character.. I pointed out the fact that you POSTED them while I could've told you my stats while I was wearing my better gear I have nothing to have I talk about my high stats all the time... You on the other hand are being dishonest with this forum if your claiming the spruced up ss you took and posted of yourself are the true stats of the strongest richest rouge in the game. Like I said I've seen you with 5k HP 1kdmg together BEFORE the update and well over 2k armour since then.. Nice try though.

Edit: seeing how you brag about noone on this game being able to beat you besides 1 person... And how you love to clash.. I'd understand how you'd be in denial... But the proof in the pudding. No other maxed class can beat your maxed class? No other class can be more useful than rouges in clashes? Now that sts is fixing the game to be more balanced of course the person who took advantage of their class being stronger by default is going to be upset that they will have to compete fairly and use actual skill to be a rouge.. Rouge legends coming to and end hopefully this is the beginning. I say next sts should take rouges armour away seeing how they give most dmg output due to crit they should be most vulnerable

Edit: and you "need not complain on forums' about how mage heal skill threatens the well being of your rouge in a clash which is a aoe fight lmao just improve your skill

[Edward Coug]

Ok, lets do the math:

I don't speak about the imbued helm/armor difference, the l46 cheap pinks are ok.

nekro: check
arcane ring: check
myth belt: check
l41 myth gun: nope -> A gun with para/eye only is AT LEAST 7M
myth pendand: nope -> dragbar 3M

Then i only need 2 eyes for helmet, 2 eyes for armor, 3 eyes for belt, 3 eyes for ring and another 3 eyes for pendand -> 13 * 2.5M = 32,5M

In total i need another 40M to be competitive... while this is noothin for the good old plat abusers, i dont weant to spend the real money that it takes and i'm a bad merchant.




I just say wow, id love to play with that gear!

You don't need max gear to be competitive with the vast majority of the player base. We should be discussing equal gear between the classes, anyway. It's not like it's cheap to max gear a rogue.

EDIT:

By the way, dragonite bars are entirely farmable. If you can't afford to buy one, you should be farming one, if you really want to get the best gear.

[Americabud]

Seems like common knowledge is prevailing.. Rouges were and still are the most op class and everyone in the game knows that regardless of a few rouges complaining about a mage heal on forums. Rouges are the best class by default and its just laughable to here a rouge deny otherwise.. Its like who ya fooling lol. Mr never ever ever lost a PvP fight accept to one person but my class is still not op lolol

[kiwotsukete]

Seems like common knowledge is prevailing.. Rouges were and still are the most op class and everyone in the game knows that regardless of a few rouges complaining about a mage heal on forums. Rouges are the best class by default and its just laughable to here a rouge deny otherwise.. Its like who ya fooling lol. Mr never ever ever lost a PvP fight accept to one person but my class is still not op lolol

m8 I think you have a hardon for zeus LOLOLOL

[Americabud]

m8 I think you have a hardon for zeus LOLOLOL

Actually I've known Zeus for a while he's 1/20 on my friends list and BTW friends don't always have to agree and disagreements arent always had by enemies. You on the other hand, don't know ya.. Gg m8

[Tatman]

Shadow storm shot has its place and time. In arena and easier tomb maps, it helps clear mobs faster and gives extra damage on boss. Also nox's poison dmg is so insignificant it is never a good idea to charge nox IMO.

I charge nox when soloing. And in other situations too, but that's another topic.

[kiwotsukete]

I charge nox when soloing. And in other situations too, but that's another topic.

yep, charge nox if there is like 6+ mobs in a pull, so they all get the DoT

[pompous]

Seems like common knowledge is prevailing.. Rouges were and still are the most op class and everyone in the game knows that regardless of a few rouges complaining about a mage heal on forums. Rouges are the best class by default and its just laughable to here a rouge deny otherwise.. Its like who ya fooling lol. Mr never ever ever lost a PvP fight accept to one person but my class is still not op lolol

I agree with this. His idea of balance is when it's tipped slightly in his favor. Whether it be with class balance or pets he owns, such as SNS because the highest concentration of SNS is among him and his friends / guild mates. Rogues are dominant in every aspect of the game. He wants the Devs now to believe that they are not good in clash. Even if that's true, so what? Are warriors good in Arena? No! Are mages dominant in any part of the game other than helping people level up their pets and toons in WT4? No! That sounds like a bad deal if you ask me. Most warriors and mages have been forced to create a rogue so that they could compete in all other aspects of the game. My recommendation to the rogues here is to make a mage for clash (if you really feel that left out) and stop complaining. You guys can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Zeus]

I agree with this. His idea of balance is when it's tipped slightly in his favor. Whether it be with class balance or pets he owns, such as SNS because the highest concentration of SNS is among him and his friends / guild mates. Rogues are dominant in every aspect of the game. He wants the Devs now to believe that they are not good in clash. Even if that's true, so what? Are warriors good in Arena? No! Are mages dominant in any part of the game other than helping people level up their pets and toons in WT4? No! That sounds like a bad deal if you ask me. Most warriors and mages have been forced to create a rogue so that they could compete in all other aspects of the game. My recommendation to the rogues here is to make a mage for clash (if you really feel that left out) and stop complaining. You guys can't have your cake and eat it too.

Slightly in my favor? I always vs people with the same tier of pets as them. In fact, you can ask Caabatric about this last night. He challenged me to a fight.

I don't mind fighting Americabud, he might learn something and I have the opportunity as well. If he wants to fight, I say lets do it.

[Zeus]

Lol I have no problem at all farming ALL day in tdm any class and anyone who visits tdm over CTF might telo you its my playground. 2:1 kdr in tdm and all without a guild. For each kill all alone, been ganged plenty but kdr is pretty easy for me so I take the gangs and even win somtetimes. As for our fights you beat me before the update and you beat me after the update really bad. So bad the last time I was hardly able to win at least 1/5 of the rounds... Granted I was horribly armoured in our fight after the update. Funny how you count every loss to me as a mistake on your part. About 3 days ago I was begging you for a vs I even saw you in my forest. DC/rc and you still were in my forest pmed you and all and you didn't reply. I was eager to embarrass you that day with the new heal update. And at least get as many kills of u as you'd get on me. Considering only 1 mage has ever beat you I'd say coming close to a tie would assure you I have no problems "killing rouges in the game" no problems with "my build and play style" ...I'm pro obviously. Furthermore does it matter you CLAIM took the screenshots of my character.. I pointed out the fact that you POSTED them while I could've told you my stats while I was wearing my better gear I have nothing to have I talk about my high stats all the time... You on the other hand are being dishonest with this forum if your claiming the spruced up ss you took and posted of yourself are the true stats of the strongest richest rouge in the game. Like I said I've seen you with 5k HP 1kdmg together BEFORE the update and well over 2k armour since then.. Nice try though.

Edit: seeing how you brag about noone on this game being able to beat you besides 1 person... And how you love to clash.. I'd understand how you'd be in denial... But the proof in the pudding. No other maxed class can beat your maxed class? No other class can be more useful than rouges in clashes? Now that sts is fixing the game to be more balanced of course the person who took advantage of their class being stronger by default is going to be upset that they will have to compete fairly and use actual skill to be a rouge.. Rouge legends coming to and end hopefully this is the beginning. I say next sts should take rouges armour away seeing how they give most dmg output due to crit they should be most vulnerable

Edit: and you "need not complain on forums' about how mage heal skill threatens the well being of your rouge in a clash which is a aoe fight lmao just improve your skill

Well over 2K armor? That's an impossibility for me in my gear, sorry. The only time I have over 1000 damage is when on an elixir. PvP damage hovers between 700-720 depending on how much str I decide to play with that day.

Balance is all classes requiring some usefulness. Just how rogues can be unbalanced in PvE, mages are unbalanced in PvP clashes. This heal just extrapolates this imbalance. Heck, even in PvE, sorcerers are not entirely outdone by rogues. Most maps still require at least one. However; in PvP, the fact remains that 2 tank 3 Mage clashes overrule the need for a rogue. Anything that a rogue can do in clash, a sorcerer can do better. That is imbalance.

Additionally, you cannot compare me to the balance of rogues. I have 3 years of experience in rogue. That's why sorcerers rarely win in a 1v1 scenario. If you pick someone at the same skill level as you, it's more likely to be an even fight.

Lastly, TDM is insanely easy to get a positive KDR in. It usually works out to be higher geared players farming lower geared players, ganging, and catching opponents by surprise.

[Farminer's]

Skill>gear as a 15 pro twink my rogue has 100 damage in PvP (ungeared) I fought against my friend also level 15 (new para and maridos) 150 damage in PvP. I won once and lost once with him only 2% health. Please explain. Another example my warrior is not maxed gear lvl 15
Yet I can vs people like Svvords. And tie Nekro vs singe. It is all about Skill and experience other then this gear difference.

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[Americabud]

Well over 2K armor? That's an impossibility for me in my gear, sorry. The only time I have over 1000 damage is when on an elixir. PvP damage hovers between 700-720 depending on how much str I decide to play with that day.

Balance is all classes requiring some usefulness. Just how rogues can be unbalanced in PvE, mages are unbalanced in PvP clashes. This heal just extrapolates this imbalance. Heck, even in PvE, sorcerers are not entirely outdone by rogues. Most maps still require at least one. However; in PvP, the fact remains that 2 tank 3 Mage clashes overrule the need for a rogue. Anything that a rogue can do in clash, a sorcerer can do better. That is imbalance.

Additionally, you cannot compare me to the balance of rogues. I have 3 years of experience in rogue. That's why sorcerers rarely win in a 1v1 scenario. If you pick someone at the same skill level as you, it's more likely to be an even fight.

Lastly, TDM is insanely easy to get a positive KDR in. It usually works out to be higher geared players farming lower geared players, ganging, and catching opponents by surprise.

It seems like its harder for someone like me with no guild who has never called in life and who ALWAYS PvP solo to get a good kdr in tdm. On the other hand people like you who always have been in guilds like unified horror magnum karma get positive kdr in ctff much easier being able to pick the players that are the best of their class to clash with you when you call. From exp CTF is full of gangers blockers ldrb guild newbies on both teams but not attking the other team because they are guild mates. Solo mage player in tdm who has never called in life. Im pretty sure it did not come easy for me. I'm solid

Edit: rouges are pros at catching me offgaurd in tdm. No shield then all see is respawn button because mage without shield = gone.. That's my whole point mages rely on special skill buffs just to not get 2 hit koed by a rouge with the same gear.. So the add of the heal skill is welcomed. We lack in stats but try to make up for it with special spells Like heal

[Visiting]

It seems like its harder for someone like me with no guild who has never called in life and who ALWAYS PvP solo to get a good kdr in tdm. On the other hand people like you who always have been in guilds like unified horror magnum karma get positive kdr in ctff much easier being able to pick the players that are the best of their class to clash with you when you call. From exp CTF is full of gangers blockers ldrb guild newbies on both teams but not attking the other team because they are guild mates. Solo mage player in tdm who has never called in life. Im pretty sure it did not come easy for me. I'm solid

I'm completely solo as well, I have no affiliations with any PVP guilds, I have a positive TDM Kdr as well on my Mage, my CTF Kdr isn't positive because I screwed it up during S2-3 (FAIL). My rogue has a positive KDR in CTF/TDM despite being ganged/blocked/etc by every guild that PVPs at endgame (and some non-PVP guilds @.@). So, what exactly is your point?