Archer build

[Caninusi]

At the moment i have a pure dex archer thats level 37.

I have received a lot of advise that pure dex birds are the best because they greatly help out with boss killings, but they seem to die easily.(only have 1 death so far tho )

I was wondering what the advantages of being a str/dex dual spec bird are. For example, how well can they can tank a boss, how much damage do they deal, how different it is from being pure dex, benefits or disadvantages in pvp ect.

Also, ive read some of the guides and it seems that maxing all skills except avian scream, restore, and meditation is the best build. (avian scream at 1 with no restore of medi.)

My question here is that is restore or meditation needed to pvp?

If thats the case should i rank them both at 1 and make thorn wall and repulse shot 5?

Thanks for the feedback.

[Kingofhurtz]

While strbirds can tank very well, the skill damage they deal is considerably lower than going pure dex. This is not always such a bad thing in pvp however because the strbirds can almost always outlast the pure dex ones. As far as meditation and restore, I'd say put 0 stat points in both. Chances are you'll have a mage to heal (no need for restore) and the chances of you surviving 3 fights(about 3 fights will pretty much deplete your mana) are quite slim and that goes for any build. Plus, Fury has pretty nice regen, so i wouldnt put any points in meditation or restore.

[Raulur]

As far as staying dex and staying alive, I have found that having higher dodge is much more important than h/s. Max evade, then buff right before the boss.

[Wushu]

...
I was wondering what the advantages of being a str/dex dual spec bird are. For example, how well can they can tank a boss, how much damage do they deal, how different it is from being pure dex, benefits or disadvantages in pvp ect...

I was pure dex until 55, and switched over to a dual spec warbird.

Warbirds can tank bosses pretty well, but in Balefort Sewer maps, warbirds are great when they tank for clearing regular mobs because you can do roundups (gathering/leading mobs to one place), or be a frontline skirmisher for death trains, and you can lay down the 1st part of the bird/bear combo, or the bird/mage combo all along the way. Depending on the boss and your party makeup, you can always switch to dex gear for bosses.

I can solo catacombs and Trash Heap with about 40 heal potions while in str gear. Most of your damage as a warbird will come from your skills but because of the mana regen rate of the Fury set (or Fury/Sewer) set, you can spam all the skills you want not really run low on mana.

With the last set of data I took on comparing full RR set for a warbird vs. pure dex I found the damage differential was something in the neighborhood of -15% damage per blast shot. So my conclusions is that it takes longer to kill with warbird, but you don't use up as many pots. I still respec to pure dex every now and then, when I feel the need to just be a damage machine (and it's fun), but my hp/mana pot use skyrockets.

You could also switch to warbird at 50, and it could be interesting, but I think staying pure dex will get you to 55 (56) faster.

Warbird with the right equipment in PvP is pretty fun. It's the combination of high dodge, high armor, high hp regen that can really frustrate your opponent(s). Again, most of your damage is going to come from using your skills. My opinion is that warbirds shine in team PvP like CTF. A lot of the time you soak damage while your teamates can kill and keep moving.

Also, ive read some of the guides and it seems that maxing all skills except avian scream, restore, and meditation is the best build. (avian scream at 1 with no restore of medi.)

My question here is that is restore or meditation needed to pvp?

If thats the case should i rank them both at 1 and make thorn wall and repulse shot 5?

Thanks for the feedback.

For either warbird or pure dex, I agree with Kingofhurtz that restore/meditation isn't needed in PvE or PVP (my opinion). Typically pk matches don't last long enough for restore/meditation to really kick in, and end-game gear can more than compensate with hp/mana regen.

I think Avian Scream is a great add for warbirds, because it helps during PvE mob clearing and it's another stun skill in PvP. However, I wouldn't bother putting anything into Avian Scream till end-game (55/56).

[Caninusi]

Wow.....speechless.

This is some great feedback!!!



Ive decided to go with the str/dex dual spec and I'll respec at level 50 or 51.
Also, how do you gather or lead mobs as a warbird wushu?
Unlike a bear, I won't have taunt or beckon to help me out here.

Also, when you say to leave avian scream to the very end, are you putting 1 or 2 on it?
Is AS not valued too much becuase of it's 3m range?

[Wushu]

For gathering, it depends on the map, but like in Balefort Sewers Stronghold, I can loop through the first main room (provided no one else follows) and the aggro'd mobs will follow me back to where the rest of the party will nuke them. For maps like Hideout, there are places along the corridors where I run through the first set of mobs, then do a half circle at the 2nd set of mobs, which will "group" the first and 2nd set of mobs together, I hit Thorn Wall and usually that sticks them in place. You can also add Avian Scream right after Thorn Wall and that will help stun them as well. A good mage will follow and Lighting the "stuck" mobs, which combos Nature Strike, while I do the Shattering Scream+Blast Shot combo and all of those together usually takes care of group.

In general, the trick is to walk through the first group of mobs and get to the 2nd group of mobs before you Thorn Wall and/or Avian Scream. As well, sometimes I start with Shattering Scream to aggro the first line of mobs into following me up through the corridors and "lead" them to where I want to group them then Thorn Wall (and/or Avian Scream).

As for Avian Scream, I've only put 1 in it. The 3m range is a limiting factor (especially if you are pure dex), but for warbird, I think it helps because a lot of the times you are in the thick of it and the stun feature is a great way to get some breathing space while you set up for a Shattering Scream+Blast Shot combo.

[KaotiicxDream]

My Birdie (Birdiexdream) is a Pure DEX Archer. It works very well for me cuz I made the character to deal damage and to play PvE not to tank and play PvP.
The Pure Dex Birds works best in PvE. In PvP they don't work that good due to the low survivability. Of course they deal good damage but are taking just as must damage as they deal.
Warbirds works little worse in PvE. They are very tanky compared with the Pure Dex build. You will be taking the role as tank when you play PvE. In PvP they work lot better. They got nice damage from the skills and got good survivability from the strength gear.

Most likely you should think what you want to do with your character (deal damage or tank) and what fits your playstyle best :-)

Hope this help

[Caninusi]

Tanking ftw.

I think that I'll keep my str/dex dual spe build, but....

Wear my dex gear in pve and wear my str gear in pvp.

Thanks for all the help so far. XD

[Slush]

Tanking ftw.

I think that I'll keep my str/dex dual spe build, but....

Wear my dex gear in pve and wear my str gear in pvp.

Thanks for all the help so far. XD

When you get to a higher level you'd probabl wanna change that up. Pvp dex, Pve str.

[Wushu]

Tanking ftw.

I think that I'll keep my str/dex dual spe build, but....

Wear my dex gear in pve and wear my str gear in pvp.

Thanks for all the help so far. XD

For me, I spend most of my time in Str gear; I only pop out to Dex gear for bosses, or if I am money/potion running in lower level areas. I have 3 loadouts dedicated to Str gear, and 1 loadout for Dex gear.

[Moogerfooger]

The whole purpose of the archer class is to deal max damage, not be a tank. If you want to be a tank, go be a bear or a pally. Archer's greatest asset is the ability to deal massive point damage that other classes can't do....being a warbird minimizes, or lessens it notieceably, that awesome ability.

Just my opinion, not saying I am right.

[Tamino]

The whole purpose of the archer class is to deal max damage, not be a tank. If you want to be a tank, go be a bear or a pally. Archer's greatest asset is the ability to deal massive point damage that other classes can't do....being a warbird minimizes, or lessens it notieceably, that awesome ability.

Just my opinion, not saying I am right.

It is also mine. As a bear, you MUST put many points in DEX at least for beacon to work; so I went dual spec at 50 and most of time I wear DEX gears. I can tank, do mobs control, and significant ranged damage with bows. As a bird (I have a lev 54 bird too), you simply do not have good skills for tanking, and most of your damage dealers are single target. Add some STR, if you want better survivability, but concentrate yourself to delivery damage. IMHO, of course.

[OrFeAsGr]

what points should be the skills????with the new lvl up system in wich you get all the skills at 22 lvl???

[Moogerfooger]

It is also mine. As a bear, you MUST put many points in DEX at least for beacon to work; so I went dual spec at 50 and most of time I wear DEX gears. I can tank, do mobs control, and significant ranged damage with bows. As a bird (I have a lev 54 bird too), you simply do not have good skills for tanking, and most of your damage dealers are single target. Add some STR, if you want better survivability, but concentrate yourself to delivery damage. IMHO, of course.

Agreed I am dual spec str/dex on my bear, 142/142, and with the right gear have great survivability with Str gear (180 armor if needed), but using booster loadouts can switch quickly to dex for the same reasons.

But back to archers, yeah warbirds would be good for PvP, but your skill power drops noticeably which affects PvE more, I think. Same with pallys to some extent as well. Don't get me wrong, both can be terrific in good hands, I have seen SunTV (I think) and Apollo do really well with warbirds, and there are terrific pallys as well. I just think the disadvantage of losing those massive point damage skill numbers from pure dex isn't worth it. Dex/dual bear can get that too, but not the effects of Break Armor and Blast Shot for example.

In the end, I suppose it comes down to each person's individual preference and what works for them. I once had about 90 str in my bird, and once I talked to a few people I went full dex and never looked back, and never will.

[Caninusi]

I also agree, since im a 132str/132dex bear.

Also Moogerfooger, you did mention that warbirds can be terrific when played by the right people. I think ill give it a try and see if im a good at it or like it. if not, ill just respec into a pure dex bird.

[adwin]

I can only give you advice/my opinion regarding PvE (I don't like PvP).

If you try doing 2 things well at the same time, you will end up doing none at all, or you will perform them half-assedly.
This is why I don't like dual-specs (I only know a handful of GOOD duals, but these are rather the exception rather than the rule). PL is a MMORPG, and it should be played as such.

Being, and staying a pure dex bird isn't easy. You're basically a very fragile pigeon thrown to the mobs to feed on you.
This is true until you reach level 50. Which is when you will use the sets (void/sentinel), and the BS sets from 51 onwards (the void/sentinel set are very good even until 55) - due to the set bonus.
You will then paradoxically be a fragile killing machine.

A piece of advice: don't save on pots. Use them when you need them and don't count on your mage to heal you.
There are a few good birds out there, which can solo most if not all BS maps (save for goblin king - regen). You should try this, since it will greatly enhance your survival skills. At first you can be frustrated, since you will die easily. Especially in places with a high "high-threat" enemy concentration (swill pits, catacombs, roach) - these hit fast and hard. Once you get the hang of it though, you will be practically unstoppable, and these skills WILL come in handy in PvP as well.
You can't cheat - the GCD has taken care of that, since you can no longer spam skills, which is why you should learn the weaknesses of each enemy type, analyze the situation, then move in for the kill. Don't rush (at first).
Try to run a few games with level 56 players. Learn their tactics. Quite often, players ask if there's a difference between a lv55 and a lv56.
Spec-wise? None. The only thing you get is the Crown of Persistance, which doesn't complete your sets, and using the latter will obviously yield a better result because of the bonus. You can try mixing hit rate with survival (for example, sewer king with roach), but you will lose the set bonus; not worth it.
What DOES make a difference though, is the skill amassed during the 55-56 grinding. ~half of players do stay at their level, since they just go through the runs automatically, without thinking. The other half though, at some point or the other, begins to notice enemy patterns, learns new tactics, strategies.
In fact, I didn't really learn how to be a full bird until I was grinding to 56.


On a side note:
Don't put any points into meditation; it's not worth it. Pots are cheap enough as it is - Ellie sells 100 of them for 1500g.
Avian scream can come in handy though (but it's definitely not a priority) - it helps when you're rooted or frozen.

The first skills you need to max out are:
Focus, then Evade. Focus gives you a 30% critical chance, and evade increases your dodge.
You should then think about shatter scream + blast shot, since they give you the cruel blast combo,
THEN you can take care of the debuffs. I would go for root/thorn wall, since it benefits all team members, AND allows for combos.

A propos tanking: who needs a dual build when you can both tank and do massive damage in sentinel talon/wing gear?
Try that out as soon as you get to 50.

[Wushu]

...
What DOES make a difference though, is the skill amassed during the 55-56 grinding. ~half of players do stay at their level, since they just go through the runs automatically, without thinking. The other half though, at some point or the other, begins to notice enemy patterns, learns new tactics, strategies.
In fact, I didn't really learn how to be a full bird until I was grinding to 56.
...

I totally agree with this statement. I think you should concentrate on learning pure dex birds for what they were designed to do. Grinding to 56 is definitely going to help you with this.

I would like to challenge the prevailing wisdom that it's got to be "PURE Dex or nothing" regarding birds. If you play a warbird like a pure dex bird, then of course it's never going to compare to that in pure damage-- it's mechanically impossible. To play a warbird requires a different mindset with a different appreciation of the nuances in order to learn how to use its strengths while minimizing its weaknesses.

You need to grind no less with the warbird build then you would with the pure dex build.

I listened to many pieces of advice given by experienced birds (like the ones commenting on this thread), but I also reviewed my own experience, collected data, and developed a build that is fun for me to play and equally as effective in the PvE environment. It is NOT, however, a pure dex bird.

Lastly, if you ever do enter the PvP experience, then knowing the "ins and outs" of how a pure dex bird is played will be invaluable in developing your own tactics.

Please feel to contact me in game -- my ign is Silkenvoice.

[Raulur]

I can only give you advice/my opinion regarding PvE (I don't like PvP).

If you try doing 2 things well at the same time, you will end up doing none at all, or you will perform them half-assedly.
This is why I don't like dual-specs (I only know a handful of GOOD duals, but these are rather the exception rather than the rule). PL is a MMORPG, and it should be played as such.

Being, and staying a pure dex bird isn't easy. You're basically a very fragile pigeon thrown to the mobs to feed on you.
This is true until you reach level 50. Which is when you will use the sets (void/sentinel), and the BS sets from 51 onwards (the void/sentinel set are very good even until 55) - due to the set bonus.
You will then paradoxically be a fragile killing machine.

A piece of advice: don't save on pots. Use them when you need them and don't count on your mage to heal you.
There are a few good birds out there, which can solo most if not all BS maps (save for goblin king - regen). You should try this, since it will greatly enhance your survival skills. At first you can be frustrated, since you will die easily. Especially in places with a high "high-threat" enemy concentration (swill pits, catacombs, roach) - these hit fast and hard. Once you get the hang of it though, you will be practically unstoppable, and these skills WILL come in handy in PvP as well.
You can't cheat - the GCD has taken care of that, since you can no longer spam skills, which is why you should learn the weaknesses of each enemy type, analyze the situation, then move in for the kill. Don't rush (at first).
Try to run a few games with level 56 players. Learn their tactics. Quite often, players ask if there's a difference between a lv55 and a lv56.
Spec-wise? None. The only thing you get is the Crown of Persistance, which doesn't complete your sets, and using the latter will obviously yield a better result because of the bonus. You can try mixing hit rate with survival (for example, sewer king with roach), but you will lose the set bonus; not worth it.
What DOES make a difference though, is the skill amassed during the 55-56 grinding. ~half of players do stay at their level, since they just go through the runs automatically, without thinking. The other half though, at some point or the other, begins to notice enemy patterns, learns new tactics, strategies.
In fact, I didn't really learn how to be a full bird until I was grinding to 56.


On a side note:
Don't put any points into meditation; it's not worth it. Pots are cheap enough as it is - Ellie sells 100 of them for 1500g.
Avian scream can come in handy though (but it's definitely not a priority) - it helps when you're rooted or frozen.

The first skills you need to max out are:
Focus, then Evade. Focus gives you a 30% critical chance, and evade increases your dodge.
You should then think about shatter scream + blast shot, since they give you the cruel blast combo,
THEN you can take care of the debuffs. I would go for root/thorn wall, since it benefits all team members, AND allows for combos.

A propos tanking: who needs a dual build when you can both tank and do massive damage in sentinel talon/wing gear?
Try that out as soon as you get to 50.

Anybody tried Sentinel gear with a drainer's talon? I'm already using the helm and armor with drainers recurve, debating on getting the Sentinel wing with drainer talon. Would the set bonus be worth completing the full set?

[Moogerfooger]

I also agree, since im a 132str/132dex bear.

Also Moogerfooger, you did mention that warbirds can be terrific when played by the right people. I think ill give it a try and see if im a good at it or like it. if not, ill just respec into a pure dex bird.

Yep, respecs are cheap, and who knows maybe you will love it it is easy for us (myself included) to say "this build is best" or "that gear is best" and be sure of our facts, but at the end of the day it still comes down to what you like playing the best.

[Moogerfooger]

I would like to challenge the prevailing wisdom that it's got to be "PURE Dex or nothing" regarding birds. If you play a warbird like a pure dex bird, then of course it's never going to compare to that in pure damage-- it's mechanically impossible. To play a warbird requires a different mindset with a different appreciation of the nuances in order to learn how to use its strengths while minimizing its weaknesses.

You have some good well-thought out posts, so I give you props for that. I still stick to my stance (and a lot of other high-lvl/higgly experienced archers better than me share it as well) that going anything but full dex on an archer is like knocking the teeth out of a pit bull, or dropping a 4-cylinder into a Ferrarri. That class is designed to - yes be fragile - but as a counterbalance be able to deal incredible point damage...my opinion is, why neuter a class designed for point damage by dropping a 4-cylinder under the hood?

Just my viewpoint...like I just said above, it comes down to what each individual likes playing the best. I have seen Int Birds do well, and they are supposedly the most useless class out there. Player skill (and player enjoyment) is the most important thing, over all of our opinions.