Archer build

[Kingofhurtz]

What it really comes down to is what you LIKE playing and what you fell COMFORTABLE playing. I had a guy ask me earlier today which build is the most powerful and I told him in my eye, the pure dex bird is. To another, it may be the pure intbird or dexBear. Just depends on what you enjoy. I'd try going full dex, then switching to str and see which one you prefer.

[Caninusi]

First of all, I'd like to comment on what adwin had to say. A str/dex dual bird could be a useful build in the sewers. For example, if you are running with a group with no bear, the dual spec would allow me to step up an fulfill the the tanking role. Also, I'm a bear main and always will be so I'm not very thrilled about a fragile pure dex build. Lastly, I completing agree with the grinding to 56. Here I would like to mention that I'm going to disable xp right before 53 an farm some gold before I venture in the sewers. (kills are a nice bonus)

Ps i've messed up some of my skill ranks already but I'll respec them when I hit 50

My question here would be....which skills should i not max out right away and have them increased between 53-56?

Next, I'd like to comment on what wushu had to say. My question here is...how does your mindset differ from that of a pure dex bird. For example, playing as a tank when your skills are focused on one on one damage I interesting.
(by the way, I just added your ign)

Finally, my thoughts on moogerfooger's posts. As you mentioned, it comes down to what the individual likes and I agree. You did note that the damage an archer can deal makes up for being a bit fragile. In my opinion, what's the point of dealing high damage if I'm going to have some trouble staying alive?? Here is where I go back to the str/dex build where yes, my damage dealing will not be as great, but I'll have the health, dodge, and armor to keep me alive.

Thanks again for your opinions.

[Caninusi]

I'd like to add more to what I just mentioned.

It seems to be that every archer in town happens to be pure dex or is something close to it.
By being a str/dex dual spec, I'll be able to explore the different mindsets of playing the archer. Also as others have mentioned before, the bird was built to deal damage. Even if I won't be able to deal as much damage as a pure dex bird would, there's still a great chance one will be in my group to fulfill that role.

As for my experience as a pure dex bird, I enjoyed it through level 1-33. During this time I was able to deal some 9.3k kills and only suffer a death. Since then, I'm starting to feel my interest slip away from being pure dex. I haven't been the same bird since then, so it'll be a good time to try something new and take the road less taken.

I'll probably post more questions and comments when I come accross them within the next few days.

[Raulur]

I'm mainly dex, with 11 int for the 1 m/s. That being said, my skills are different from most as I have max Avian Scream and level 1 repulse. I honestly prefer the "in their face" approach in pve. Because of this, I have begun to search out high armor and dodge loadouts for survival. Even in all bird groups, I tend to end up with aggro from the bosses when all of the math says I should not. I attribute that to my extemely aggressive playstyle.

Right now I do not use a talon/wing setup much, but I used to. If the situation dictates, I will not hesitate to bring more armor to the fight. With a talon/wing, even though pure DPS is lower, skill damage is right up there with two handed weapons. I have bird-friends with talon loadouts that can bring the pain just as much as bow birds. It may not be the most popular method for dex birds, but the option is available.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Why cripple yourself with attribute points when the gear exists to be flexible to the situation at the touch of a button?

[adwin]

First of all, I'd like to comment on what adwin had to say. A str/dex dual bird could be a useful build in the sewers. For example, if you are running with a group with no bear, the dual spec would allow me to step up an fulfill the the tanking role.

I already commented on that. A skilled archer will be able to solo all the sewer levels, except maybe for the boss.
Sure, your pot usage will go through the roof, especially if you're in aggressive gear (raid/bagman).
As a matter of fact, I prefer soloing BS instead of running with a full team (unless these are people I know and like to play with)

As for the mindset:
1: it all depends on what kind of person you are, aggressive, passive, play it safe?
2: If you're used to being a bear (or mage), the strategy and your approach as well as evaluation of the enemy/situation is totally different from that of a bird.
With a tank, you don't care if it's a fire slime or a weak sewer mage, you also don't care if there's one of them or a whole bunch; you just run up and tank.
As for the bird, it's totally different. Sure, you can run up, but then you must be able to take down as many as possible in 1 action so as to reduce the damage taken during the second round.

[Moogerfooger]

Finally, my thoughts on moogerfooger's posts. As you mentioned, it comes down to what the individual likes and I agree. You did note that the damage an archer can deal makes up for being a bit fragile. In my opinion, what's the point of dealing high damage if I'm going to have some trouble staying alive?? Here is where I go back to the str/dex build where yes, my damage dealing will not be as great, but I'll have the health, dodge, and armor to keep me alive.

Thanks again for your opinions.

Since you have singled me out and seem to want to debate it further.....I have no trouble staying alive, and I often lead the party or am near the front. Skill, man, skill. Oh, and I go through a ton of health pots. I occasionally eat it from being careless around a fire trap or from a huge mob from an overaggressive roundup, but rarely from mobs/bosses.

I COULD say, as a hypothetical analogy, Str birds, or partially Str birds, are like a 3-series BMW...sure they are nice, perform all right, and have some good all around characteristics. Pure dex is the Ferrarri with a tricky clutch, narrow power band, and is tough to drive sometimes....but if you can handle it, why would you want to drive the 3-series?

Enjoy your 3-series (I kid, I kid....back to the personal preference/preferred style of play for each individual...this is just mine).

If you ask anyone who has ever played with me, they will vouch for me a) leading/charging Physiologic-style and b) not dying much playing from the front.

p.s. excellent post from Adwin right above me...another excellent archer.

[Wushu]

...
Next, I'd like to comment on what wushu had to say. My question here is...how does your mindset differ from that of a pure dex bird. For example, playing as a tank when your skills are focused on one on one damage I interesting.
(by the way, I just added your ign)
...

Actually, you aren't playing as a "traditional" tank (aka Str bear) either. In my opinion you shouldn't be standing toe-to-toe with anything, except maybe bosses in Str gear. You should still be constantly moving like a pure dex bird, but your "swooping and diving" spiral patterns are much much smaller in diameter, and you aren't spamming heals or mana potions along the way.

Instead, you should be trying to get deep into the middle of mobs and then leading with all your area attacks first- Shattering Scream, Thorn Wall, Avian Scream, and Blast Shot. You then use the remaining skills (Repulse, Blinding, Break Armor, Thorn Root) to finish off the stragglers.

I try to aggro as many mobs as possible (using my dodge/armor/hp to get more of them on me), use my area attacks to damage/kill most of them, and keep the single target skills to finish off stragglers. This frontline approach doesn't use many health or mana potions. I can get through entire BS maps using maybe 10 or less potions total.

In my pure dex build, I operate under the "seek and destroy" philosophy, generally first using my ranged attacks and single target skills, and using area attacks on groups of mobs in corners or tight spaces. This is a different strategy- I am destroying the mobs as I go, not gathering them together in the str build.

I also play frontline when I am/was full dex, but I wouldn't just go wading into a group of mobs, especially around fire grates. And my potion usage easily jumps to ~3-4x the strength build potion usage. But you are killing faster.

Either way-- I find that the group I am in makes the most difference in faster or slower runs. A group of experienced players, regardless of their builds, makes mobs and bosses die fast!

[Caninusi]

Alright, first I agree with Raulur. The base damage and dps of pure dex birds compared to dual spec birds wont make too much of a difference since gear makes the most impact. (not trying to say this applies to skill damage)

To follow up with adwin, Id like to be aggressive when it comes to killing, but play it safe at the same time. Any tips on how this is done?

Also, sorry if you felt I singled you out moogerfooger. (lol) My debate here was to confirm the survivability of an experienced pure dex bird. It also seems that you enjoy cars since you relate to them alot when comparing archer builds. XD

Thanks again wushu for another informational post.

[Raulur]

As I think I mentioned somewhere, I am using a Drainer's bow. It's the yellow one with high armor boost and 6 dodge. I experimented with another (higher damage and crit) bow for a short period, but my health potion use went through the roof. I was too busy watching my health that I wasn't focusing on skills.

I quickly switched back, and it was a huge difference. So try adding more armor and dodge first, before using a respec. I use an armor ring with my recurve loadout, and a damage ring with my talon loadout. I know it sounds odd, but it works. I can always use talon and armor ring in the event that its not enough.

[Wushu]

...
I COULD say, as a hypothetical analogy, Str birds, or partially Str birds, are like a 3-series BMW...sure they are nice, perform all right, and have some good all around characteristics. Pure dex is the Ferrarri with a tricky clutch, narrow power band, and is tough to drive sometimes....but if you can handle it, why would you want to drive the 3-series?
...

I would say warbird is more like an M5 -- when I switch to dex gear in my dual-spec stats, I still do a fair bit of ranged damage and skill damage, still better than most other classes in fact. However, it's still not the pure dex bird damage.

BTW -- I have moved from a Corvette C5, to a BMW 335, to an SUV, and am now contemplating the Mini-van. Each of them have a purpose and function all to its own. Unfortunately, my heart still says Corvette, but my ever-expanding family says Mini-van.

[Zeus]

I would say warbird is more like an M5 -- when I switch to dex gear in my dual-spec stats, I still do a fair bit of ranged damage and skill damage, still better than most other classes in fact. However, it's still not the pure dex bird damage.

BTW -- I have moved from a Corvette C5, to a BMW 335, to an SUV, and am now contemplating the Mini-van. Each of them have a purpose and function all to its own. Unfortunately, my heart still says Corvette, but my ever-expanding family says Mini-van.

Fortified warbird is the M5, normal fury is the M3 . Fortified ALMOST matches pure dex in terms of damage.

[adwin]

To follow up with adwin, Id like to be aggressive when it comes to killing, but play it safe at the same time. Any tips on how this is done?

I have written a mini-tuto here:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...actics-BEG-ADV

You can practise in lower level dungeons, and move to higher levels once you gain some confidence.

Fortified warbird is the M5, normal fury is the M3 . Fortified ALMOST matches pure dex in terms of damage.

This is only partially true. Argumenting the "damage" part of your statement, you're forgetting what in my opinion, is the most important feature of birds/dex equipment, which is critical damage.
75% crit buffed-solo (add to that a mage's buff), and there is no way these 2 classes can be compared.

As I think I mentioned somewhere, I am using a Drainer's bow. It's the yellow one with high armor boost and 6 dodge. I experimented with another (higher damage and crit) bow for a short period, but my health potion use went through the roof. I was too busy watching my health that I wasn't focusing on skills.

Once again, pots are dirt cheap. Sell a few, even trash, pinks, and you've got yourself 1000 pots of each.
Or just do a couple of runs in CTF. The greens liquidate for 100+ gold, and they drop like flies.
The "watching health" part does take some getting used to.
On a side note, I was using a mix of drainer/gutter from 51-54.
I wasn't fortunate enough to get bagman or henchman drops for my level, and I wasn't really swimming in gold either. The aforementioned drainer/gutter did the job.

[Moogerfooger]

I would say warbird is more like an M5 -- when I switch to dex gear in my dual-spec stats, I still do a fair bit of ranged damage and skill damage, still better than most other classes in fact. However, it's still not the pure dex bird damage.

BTW -- I have moved from a Corvette C5, to a BMW 335, to an SUV, and am now contemplating the Mini-van. Each of them have a purpose and function all to its own. Unfortunately, my heart still says Corvette, but my ever-expanding family says Mini-van.

Haha, that is awesome....well, not awesome to go from a C5 to a minivan, but nice. Congrats on the family. I just randomly picked a 335, but if you would like my analogy to be with an M5, I can do that.

Pure dex survivability IS a concern, so to speak. I have both a 2 crit/10 dmg ring, and a 1 dodge/9 armor ring, and I would equip whichever depending on the party, what level we were on, etc. I do burn through pots like a madman, but that comes from leading from the front-ish part of the group as best I can. My right thumb has a mind of its own and knows where that health pot button is. I pot pretty constantly, if my health gets anywhere near half.

[Moogerfooger]

Fortified warbird is the M5, normal fury is the M3 . Fortified ALMOST matches pure dex in terms of damage.

How do the skill damages compare? (I don't know if they are close, am asking honestly)

And a Raid/Custom dex bird blows a Fury/Fortified bird away, and far away, in crit, oops I see adwin already mentioned that.

[Thegodofgreen]

Anyone tapped into the Dex / int. Split? I seem to run out of mana quickly... life too but with a full group were running through the stages. Even at lv 33 I could solo the desert bosses. I reallocated spells I do have H/s buff helps... little but I have lv 1 or 2 M/s its almost a waste. I know I need my roots back.

But wanted to know does int help with dmg on aoes or spells hitting multiple targets like a mage spells have aoes and there Dex is low or are there spells just powerful.

[Suntv]

Anyone tapped into the Dex / int. Split? I seem to run out of mana quickly... life too but with a full group were running through the stages. Even at lv 33 I could solo the desert bosses. I reallocated spells I do have H/s buff helps... little but I have lv 1 or 2 M/s its almost a waste. I know I need my roots back.

But wanted to know does int help with dmg on aoes or spells hitting multiple targets like a mage spells have aoes and there Dex is low or are there spells just powerful.

Well I guess that’s my territory From level 1 to 55 I played as a dual int-bird and from level 56 as a hybrid int/dex-bird.

Right now I haven’t got a lot of time to describe it, but I noticed that a m/s of 13 is enough for recharging skills without depleting mana. My h/s is 25 and in combination with a dodge of 7 and armor of 137 it’s enough to pull all mobs from a room like the first main room in Stronhold with maybe 4 health pots just to be sure. Who needs bears?

Then we have skill damage. Can’t give you the exact numbers right now but Thorn Wall does about 210. That’s with a dex of 161 and an int of 174 (my str is 2).

Boss killin, my favorite. I might just have a dps of only 200 (average, depending on ring and situation) but with a crit of 32 (average, depending on ring and situation) it’s enough to get the boss’ attention even if there are full set players (RR, MM, FU). That’s something I still need to research: how can a lower DPS / lower damage wand cause a boss to hunt you even if there are full dex birds with scarabs/recurves and higher crit?

To round up; I split the four items 50/50. Most of the time I do int-robe, int-wand, dex-helmet and dex-shield. Sometimes dex-robe, int-wand, dex-helmet and int-shield. The latter has a higher crit, but lower armor.

[Superdexme]

for being a warbird what would benefit your skill damage the most....1h axes, 1h swords or 2h swords/axes??

[Mennddoza]

Being a fortified bird is pretty fly

[Moogerfooger]

Being a fortified bird is pretty fly

It may be fly, but your crit is unfly compared to Raid or Custom