Dragon Hunter Staff

[Platfarmer]

Thanks a million to Carapace and the team for having yet another open discussion! It's awesome to know our voices are being heard. I know I speak for many when I say that we appreciate the thought, time and effort you put into making the game fun to play.

It is disappointing to hear that the team is currently content with Dragon Hunter Staff. Though it may appear that way, this is not a case of buff-envy. Due to the complex nature of the staff, it took a little time to discover its weaknesses. Many players still may not recognize what they are. In the case of the Dragon Hunter Blades the weaknesses were obvious and, let's be honest, Rogue players tend to be more impatient and demanding than Sorcerer players. However, I trust that you'll let this case be decided on it own merits.

Staves are notorious for generating more sorcerer deaths than guns because staves are hand-to-hand combat weapons. Because sorcerers are extremely vulnerable at close range, a gun is almost always the smarter choice. The only type of staff I'd ever consider using as my main weapon is an arcane staff - nothing else comes close to properly addressing that extreme vulnerability. The Ker'shal Scepter made up for that vulnerability quite nicely. The Dragon Hunter Staff may have a shot if Consecrate is sufficiently improved.

How to Fix Consecrate

Unfortunately, Consecrate cannot replace either Fireball or Arcane Shield. Fusing inferior versions of two existing skills does not necessarily create a better spell. In the case of Consecrate, it overlaps significantly with both skills (and Nekro!) but isn't as powerful as each individual skill. During hardcore gameplay (Elites, PvP, timed), Sorcerers must have those skills at maximum strength. Few sorcerers will remove Arcane Shield or Fireball from their specs because of Consecrate. Arcane weapons exist to be used during fast-paced, hardcore gameplay. An arcane staff that takes 1.25 seconds to cast a weakened fireball and an immobile damage reduction field feels sluggish and is not up to par. Casting Consecrate is a huge sacrifice for Sorcerers who often must retreat from the AoE immediately after casting.

However, I think that Consecrate can be tweaked a little to make it remarkably useful while still keeping it in balance with the game as a whole. The idea behind the word "consecrate" is to bless, to make make something sacred - in this case the ground on which the spell is centered. Why not take the concept just a little further? In folklore, all manner of foul creatures cannot traverse consecrated land without enduring severe penalties.

1. Create a Perimeter - Drive back (push back) all enemies to the edge of the area of effect. This allows Sorcerers and other team members to stay within the AoE without having to retreat and lose the benefit of the spell that cost the Sorcerer mana and time to cast.
2. Slow Enemy Movement Speed by 40% - Once enemies have been driven back, they can re-enter, but moving through consecrated ground is like travelling through muddy swamp water.
3. Add Damage over Time - Enemies take damage walking on consecrated ground. It doesn't have to be a lot of damage, but at least a token amount. The spell shouldn't be too OP.
4. Reduce Damage Reduction to 15% - for the purposes of spell balancing. If #1 and #2 are implemented, allies within the AoE will take less damage anyway.
5. Reduce Initial Spell Damage by 33% - to help balance out the DoT feature.
6. Reduce casting time to 1.125 seconds - just a little shaved off will make a big difference in how it feels to cast.
7. Keep mana cost the same - the above changes would make it well worth the expense.

I hope my suggestions are well within the 'feasible' range, thus increasing the probability that they will be implemented. I understand and appreciate the overhead costs involved with re-examining and altering content that has already been released. I encourage other players to comment on my suggestions.

Edit: Based on feedback altered #2 from 70% msr to 40% msr. Increased #4 from 10% Damage Reduction to 15% to compensate.

I do prefer a pull skill instead of a push, sort of a whim pull or a trap pull which makes it easier to kill the group of mobs and also keep the mobs within the area of effect , pushing can make things messy sometimes.

[Jazzi]

I learned my lesson with the Kershal. This time around I will be keeping my Glintstone Wisdom gun. Guns > Staffs for just about every situation except perhaps for doing tombs runs like WT4 and KM3. For PvP, bosses, and elites, guns work much better as their range and ability to auto aim means the sorcerer can keep distance from the enemy, keep moving and run circles around a boss, and strike from the rear of the party in PvP. With a staff, it forces you to stop moving so you can face the enemy, and you must be much closer to the enemy because of limited range. Between that and the reduced skill damage, I cannot see why anyone would choose the staff over the gun. And BTW, the Glintstone gun also has a proc that increases damage for the party.

Yes, guns generally work better. However this is not the case this time (except maybe in PvP). In PvE and especially in elite and especially vs bosses the staff is immensely superior to the glintstone mythic guns. The difference in t2 runs speed with 2 mages with arcane staves vs same mages (same skill + same rest of the gear) and glint guns is 0,5-1 minute per run in favour of the staff. Anyone who is saying that the glint gun is better than the arcane staff for PvE either hasn't used the staff at all, or doesn't know how to us it

You real should try using the arcane staff

[Niixed]

I do prefer a pull skill instead of a push, sort of a whim pull or a trap pull which makes it easier to kill the group of mobs and also keep the mobs within the area of effect , pushing can make things messy sometimes.

I seriously considered pull instead of push, but I think that feature is too powerful to be included in an already-powerful spell. Additionally, it wouldn't make sense conceptually. It's Consecrate, not Concentrate. I wanted every suggestion to be something STS is actually able to use.

For those concerned with mob management, including a push feature could be very useful. Because it can be used repeatedly and on-demand, Consecrate could still be used to drive mobs together. Sorcerers just have to be a little more creative and position themselves properly when using the spell. If a Sorcerer misfires and unintentionally disperses mobs, he could potentially correct the error by re-casting the spell in the appropriate location.

[Niixed]

Someone suggested that the consecrate spell follow the caster around. I loved that idea. That coupled with allowing multiple, UNSTACKABLE (i.e., the bonus does not stack) consecrate spell in a map would seem perfect to me, in addition to increasing skill damage. I would be okay with leaving the charge time as high as it is now of those were implemented. If the spell doesn't follow us around, then charge time should be reduced IMO.

I honestly think this would be a great alternative to my suggestions. I have a feeling it was initially considered during the design process and rejected for some reason. One reason could be that it may overlap too much with Arcane Shield and Nekro if the spell moved with the Sorcerer.

[Dragoonclaws]

Guys,

I don't think they have any plans on changing the Arcane Staff. Carapace made this thread so everybody understands how it works and how it was meant to work. You could still try... but seriously, it's been 3 weeks since it has been released and people will go wild again if StS does a change again. Buffing and Nerfing isn't everybody's favourite thing. You can't ask for a buff or a nerf because the staff doesn't work the way you wanted it to work. They gave the staff a combo fifth skill and gave it some consequences. Just take it. that's the staff, now use it or dump it.

My 50 cents... feat nickelback

[Sorcerie]

The only thing that needs to be modified, imho, is the skill damage and/or base stats so that it's close to par with the glint rifle.

As others have pointed out, i don't see the reason why they would buff the daggs to balance this out with the bow and not the staff.

Either give up a boost to crit, add dex to the staff, or do a little of both for good meaure.

This way the new arcane weapons are equal in terms of balance and damage across all the classes.

and tbh, I find the DOT proc on the normal attacks a bit underwhelming. I don't really see the little skull icon nearly as often as I would like, but maybe that's just me.

Also, the multiple casts issue is real.

You can't always tell when a party member is going to use Consecrate in the chaos of mob clearing so more often than not you end up cancelling out someone else's cast, which can interrupt party positions and battle flow. I feel like a max of two should be allowed to allow for a little bit more freedom of the weapon and overall range.

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I do not recommend a push proc for charging the arcane staff, push is easily the most annoying feature to a piece of equipment in the game.

There is nothing worse than trying to clear a mob and someones planar pendant procs and throws the entire flow of the team off as they scramble to get re-adjusted.

[Otahaanak]

The skill damage needs a buff and the single instance of consecrate needs to be looked into. If I cast a fireball it doesn't cancel another party members spell. A rogues dagger proc doesn't cancel another, nor does the lava proc of one war cancel another.






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

[Niixed]

Guys,

I don't think they have any plans on changing the Arcane Staff. Carapace made this thread so everybody understands how it works and how it was meant to work. You could still try... but seriously, it's been 3 weeks since it has been released and people will go wild again if StS does a change again. Buffing and Nerfing isn't everybody's favourite thing. You can't ask for a buff or a nerf because the staff doesn't work the way you wanted it to work. They gave the staff a combo fifth skill and gave it some consequences. Just take it. that's the staff, now use it or dump it.

My 50 cents... feat nickelback

Yes, I'm well aware of the dev team isn't going to be easy to convince. Everyone who actually read the op realizes the situation. Consecrate doesn't work well but it is supposed to be one of the main features of the staff. Asking for it to be changed so it yields the proper returns for the amount of sacrifice isn't asking for too much. What I find unhelpful is when others discourage change advocates, telling us to just give up and accept things the way they are.

[Niixed]

I do not recommend a push proc for charging the arcane staff, push is easily the most annoying feature to a piece of equipment in the game.

There is nothing worse than trying to clear a mob and someones planar pendant procs and throws the entire flow of the team off as they scramble to get re-adjusted.

The reason the pendant proc is so irritating is that you have no control over when it triggers. If you had control over the push proc, wouldn't that be far more useful? Being able to push on-demand repeatedly in this manner is an ability that hasn't ever existed in Arcane Legends.

I think push is the option that best supports the idea behind the spell, aka 'the team making a stand on holy ground vs enemies.' Many hate 'push' but it's mostly because we usually lack control over when it goes off. If used properly, it could be an amazing tool, both for the caster and his allies.

[Dragoonclaws]

Yes, I'm well aware of the dev team isn't going to be easy to convince. Everyone who actually read the op realizes the situation. Consecrate doesn't work well but it is supposed to be one of the main features of the staff. Asking for it to be changed so it yields the proper returns for the amount of sacrifice isn't asking for too much. What I find unhelpful is when others discourage change advocates, telling us to just give up and accept things the way they are.

I've hoped for a buff too. Every situation is worth it. I've read the Op and the most of the comments. Both sides have greats ideas. I've waited for a reply from a dev, but they don't seem to be on a position to change anything. Giving up is when you can do something but you don't. Over here, you guys have been writing books about the changes you wanted to see, the tests you've done, the reality you experience when using the staff. Who is better placed to tell how the items do but the players? That's not giving up. The thread is here, your ideas are there. They are reading each of them and probably discussing it in their office.

Gotta love this community, cheers guys!

[Niixed]

In the end, I trust STS to make the best decision they can with the information they have. I just spent an inordinate amount of time advocating for changes to the staff and I can't afford to spend any more. Whether or not the dev team makes any changes, I'm very happy they gave us the floor and listened anyone who wanted to make a case. Thanks, all!

[Sorcerie]

The reason the pendant proc is so irritating is that you have no control over when it triggers. If you had control over the push proc, wouldn't that be far more useful? Being able to push on-demand repeatedly in this manner is an ability that hasn't ever existed in Arcane Legends.

I think push is the option that best supports the idea behind the spell, aka 'the team making a stand on holy ground vs enemies.' Many hate 'push' but it's mostly because we usually lack control over when it goes off. If used properly, it could be an amazing tool, both for the caster and his allies.

Then what is Gale? Isn't that the ability to push on-demand?

I get what you're trying to say here as a concept, but personally, I find the push a effect a total nuisance.

If I want to push the enemy, I'll use Gale, I don't want it as an effect on a weapon.

Especially considering this was an effect on the Kershal that no one really cared for anyway.

[Kriticality]

While on paper the explanation sounds ok, the application in practice is not the same. Thundyrz and jay have some good suggestions. I prefer the staff personally bc I like to play support Mage in pvp. While I believe it can be more beneficial in a team environment, it really is to help rogues survive. Occasionally you get them out of a sticky situation. On its own, there is still much to be desired. Essentially the opposite of the new sword for example.

As it stands now with only one consecrate allowed at a time, I would honestly prefer the proc and consecrate to be switched. Make dot 100% with this charge and and give a chance to consecrate with auto spam. In pve the staff is great. I'll give you that. But so is sword and dagger. In pvp not so much. There are other mages that log many hours. I put in my fair share. This honestly would be easier to explain if a dev team would come clash with us. Sword is far more useful than staff.

At least give us a usable spell. What is the real world application of consecrate vs a rogue or warrior? It certainly isn't on par with either fb or shield and not even close to both together. Here's another suggestion. Give a bubble for consecration. Like warrior heal bubble. Let it really be defensive. Give everyone in range a 1 second damage immunity. Not as op as shield. But make everyone think twice before rushing.


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[Kingofninjas]

I honestly think this would be a great alternative to my suggestions. I have a feeling it was initially considered during the design process and rejected for some reason. One reason could be that it may overlap too much with Arcane Shield and Nekro if the spell moved with the Sorcerer.

I think having the spell follow the mage would work perfectly with your idea for the spell to apply dot. Heck, let there be 0 impact damage and dot roughly 2/3 the power of an sns pool applied to enemies in the range of the spell. Seeing how tanks can basically proc 7-10 sns damage pools while permanently stun-locking you in them, in addition to the damage buff their proc gives them, what I ask for is more than reasonable.

[Kingofninjas]

While on paper the explanation sounds ok, the application in practice is not the same. Thundyrz and jay have some good suggestions. I prefer the staff personally bc I like to play support Mage in pvp. While I believe it can be more beneficial in a team environment, it really is to help rogues survive. Occasionally you get them out of a sticky situation. On its own, there is still much to be desired. Essentially the opposite of the new sword for example.

As it stands now with only one consecrate allowed at a time, I would honestly prefer the proc and consecrate to be switched. Make dot 100% with this charge and and give a chance to consecrate with auto spam. In pve the staff is great. I'll give you that. But so is sword and dagger. In pvp not so much. There are other mages that log many hours. I put in my fair share. This honestly would be easier to explain if a dev team would come clash with us. Sword is far more useful than staff.

At least give us a usable spell. What is the real world application of consecrate vs a rogue or warrior? It certainly isn't on par with either fb or shield and not even close to both together. Here's another suggestion. Give a bubble for consecration. Like warrior heal bubble. Let it really be defensive. Give everyone in range a 1 second damage immunity. Not as op as shield. But make everyone think twice before rushing.


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Maybe 1 second damage immunity is a bit high, seeing as how enemies would only have a .25 second window to damage a player in the spell range if the mage charged the proc non stop (with perfect release time and no lag). But I like the idea of making it more on par with arcane shield. I'm sure the dev team can figure out exact numbers.

Dev team should definitely clash with some players, and use the weapons for themselves to see the imbalance. All these issues really stem from a lack of in game testing by developers themselves.

[Kriticality]

Cara and rem pm me in game. Let's do this.


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[tomsawer]

Very well put dragoonclaws.

[potpot]

calling all mages to comment here, We need more comments for STS to hear us out!
Imagine 5 days only 60 comments?!
Come on cooperate!

[will0]

Fairly enough suggestions on here already. I hope sts could look at the spell making mage more survivable against the op warrior lava pool which Spawn non stop and it stacks... Consecrate spell should be allow to stick too.... If so..

[Kriticality]

Cara I need a bit more specific explanation. In PVP, how do I get the most out of my staff? Let's say TDM 1 tank, 2 mage, 1 rogue. Or CTF clash 2 tank, 2 mage, 1 rogue. Can you tell me your thoughts on the benefits of the staff in these situations? Of course take into account the lava pulls and 6 axes flying at you. DPS has to hide. To get close enough to consecrate before someone drops on the other team almost certainly means death. Only place I see to use staff is at the beginning. For only the damage and crit buff bc damage reduction doesn't stack with nekro shield. At least for the caster, make the damage reduction stack with both nekro shield and mage arcane shield. If it's more of a survival support weapon then let it do something meaningful. And for the love of everything holy, change the cancellation of consecrate. Imagine having a blocker in a game with nekro and a staff. They can false start nekro and cancel any other mage consecrate.

Currently not only is consecrate not good enough, it can be cancelled at anytime by any other mage. C'mon guys. It lacks damage, consecrate isn't good enough. It provides health and is good for pve timed runs on some maps. That's the reality. It also makes mages kind of tanky which is nice if they have full/almost full eye build. Do something about this thing please. Or at least come play some games with us so you can see the real PVP application of this thing.

IGN Papapaper

Add me. Let's play please.