Itemization Updates & The New Expansion

[Jazzi]

Your on par with mages and tanks now. You cant be number one class! There shouldn't be one! god i hope sts dose not bend over backwards for rouges cos of the crying. Fair game now. Thank you sts

You are very very very far away from the current reality of the game. My guess is that you are either retired or never actually had competitive gear as a tank. Gear up, skill up and then talk pls

[Xinandy]

He plays a tank at endgame...

thx safiras.
its been too selfish to let 1 class to be number 1.
but you have to realize that in PVP is not only about gear or skill, its also about timing and complex stuff.
In short, its about team play not solo play.
The most powerful tank can't take down 5 player alone, he/she need the team too.
thanks.

[Darkquantum]

He plays a tank at endgame...

Haha the fact that your wrong makes this all the more funny to me. Go look at mage tdm lb. I play mage haha. Have not used my tank or rouge in over 1 year.

[Darkquantum]

You are very very very far away from the current reality of the game. My guess is that you are either retired or never actually had competitive gear as a tank. Gear up, skill up and then talk pls

Wrong i played all 3 classes competitively, with the best gear at one stage or another. (Currently mage lvl 46 with best gear for pvp) And at several different levels, mainly for pvp. You clearly have no idea about who i am. But thanks for the great thoughts

[Darkquantum]

thx safiras.
its been too selfish to let 1 class to be number 1.
but you have to realize that in PVP is not only about gear or skill, its also about timing and complex stuff.
In short, its about team play not solo play.
The most powerful tank can't take down 5 player alone, he/she need the team too.
thanks.

I have been a pvp player since the game had pvp. im on the leader board are you? I play as a mage btw not tank so lol. Yes i am aware of pvp needing timming and skill. But thanks anyway bro/sis

[Darkquantum]

Im happy about the update you haters cant bring me down
3 cheers for fairness!

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[arcanesuperio]

I wonder where were all these advice when the warriors wanted buff in everything and crying their heart out in the forum ? That time why didnt they retire ? always crying that nobody takes them in parties..looool

Rogue tanks have 5k hp and around 2k health..(before nerf)..so lets bring the warrior down to that level and let them tank..then the rogues will also say..
The real players will adapt and make their class shine like they always do. It's the lesser players that will complain and whining about an MMO because of "stats" is amusing. You play a stats game and expect it not to disappoint you? Rofl.

Now very ordinary warriors with arcane sword have 10k hp..3.5k armor and 800 dmg..and I am sure they are still not satisfied...looool..cry again and whine..this is the best u are expected to do..

Whenever STS said...that Rogues should not be the best damage dealers?..While mages excel in mob control...rogues can deal with single bosses better...Now as it turns out...Warriors want both of these qualities to be taken away from the classes and added to them..

So cry your hearts out,whine..and maybe STS will listen to u...STS is extra careful in showers all their affecion on your class only .
I think now...ask for dmg nerf for rogues....why should a rogue hv more than 500 dmg when a tank have 800 onlyyyyyy...xD

I believe either u not play much game or never noticed any warr.
We will b very very grateful if u find and post screenshot of a best warrior with 10k health, 3.5k armor and 800 damage all at same time (that warr will b legend of legends and i donate my account to you)
With glintstone set warr armor is 2.4k,
Health is 7.6 (with nekro) and damage 720 (with nekro)...
Rogues have also option for use of diamond and nature jewels.
And also rogue please use heal packs in pve too like warr and mage use heal skills.
A member of my guild got kicked lol just for using heal packs in elite pve (rogues were/became so op to consider using heal packs as noob thing!!!!!?? Then sts has done the correct thing by nerfing armor)

[Earlingstad]

A member of my guild got kicked lol just for using heal packs in elite pve (rogues were/became so op to consider using heal packs as noob thing!!!!!?? Then sts has done the correct thing by nerfing armor)

Now it is obvious that sts makes changes to the rogue class based on statements like yours. May I dare to point out the totally warped notion about rogues you and the likes of you have been popularizing? Here we go.

Your friend or you, whoever, was kicked for using health packs in elite pve, it was a good move on the kickers part. Health Packs are for use in PVP and Health potions are to be consumed in Elite PVE. It is very basic knowledge. Before you rage, let me explain why. Health packs are packs that do not drop on your character like a mage or warrior's heal. A rogue needs to walk over to them. Walking over takes time. Every nano-second counts in hard elite maps. Hence to save time and be more effective, potions are consumed quickly.


I would like to request warriors/mages like you and others who are reading to not put forward biased opinions because we ourselves are leading sts to shape up the game by telling the devs what we want. When we put forward opinions without deeply probing and thinking about the consequences of nerfs/buffs, it confuses the dev team and in order to appease the majority side they sometimes fumble up.


Let me tell you that I am very happy about the mage and warrior buffs. They make the game competitive and make it balanced so that all of us are able to try out any class we like rater than sticking to only 1 OP class. However maybe not now but later perhaps (hopefully not too late) if you were ever wanting to try out rogue, you'd realise that the slashing of rogue's armor is a bad move. It is not the in the best interest of the game.

[Darkquantum]

Rouges in pvp now is what is was like in 31/36 cap!
Rouges would die every so often and needed the tank and mage around.

Somewhere between then and now they stopped needing these essentials, and just became tanks with cannons.

Things have gone back to when pvp was fair and fun for everyone!
(clearly only an opinion of the other side of this discussion)

Rouges used to be exactly this weak/strong in pvp i remember when it started, i used the forum like you guys are now! And finally......it has been fixed.

Late game rouge players and people that pretend they love all classes are getting mad because they had a taste of these ridiculous stats. and now cant cope with needing a tank/mage in pve and pvp or not winning 1v1 every dam time.

(In short fairness)

I hope sts stay with there decision. Suggestions from us for so long to get were we are now.

I would Hate to see it ruined so fast after the fix.


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[Behoove]

really nice update and awesome system with those jewels, especially for newer players

[iceking]

As a war player. I also need rogue's crit. However, if rogue cannot servive. The run takin longer time then usual. Even war also hv a high dmg , crit. But rogue frends still needed .
>> I dont know how rogues servive. But those rogues know ..

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[Sundar Moorthi]

thx safiras.
its been too selfish to let 1 class to be number 1.
but you have to realize that in PVP is not only about gear or skill, its also about timing and complex stuff.
In short, its about team play not solo play.
The most powerful tank can't take down 5 player alone, he/she need the team too.
thanks.

am a mage with 5.3khp and 1080dmg i die like a paper with rogues one aimed shot when my shield down (before) now i hav a chance for survivablity cos rogues now exchange thy dmg for armor and crit so mages hav a chance now against rogue., but with tank now its a big question 9khp 850dmg 3k armor tanks damage now through the shield

[Tapash Bose]

Nicely said i didnt have the effort but i agree good sir Its the rouges turn now. Stop crying lol mages and tanks all had their turn

There is a very basic difference goodS ir which I may so humbly remind you
First of all I dont do pvp..so all my observations are pve related only

Not a single rogue ever opposed any of the buffs the mages and warriors have been lately getting .Rather everyone of us was supporting that ..bcos we felt that will be good for the overall health of the game ..higher level means tougher mobs with higher hp and damage..and u enter there as a paper
Imagine how u would hv felt going from 41-46 when ur overstall stas was destroyed..just to make one class happy
Mages still need an armor buff...and all(not sure about warr though xD) would have welcomed if STS had gone that way ...after all this we still support it ..

But see at the jubilation (especially so by warriors) after the nerf...Its not the rogues who wanted to be #1 ever..we simply never care..It was the warriors who needs it all through..u find 1.8-2.0k armor for rogues too much...while most of the warriors are running around with. 10k hp,3.5k armor and 800k dmg ..so u call that fair ?We will never be able to kill anybody if we cannot stay alive and our power to kill was also further reduced by nerfing criteria..

Not only that, nerfing rendtail ring was a step aimed towards weakening mages and rogues only..PPl with over 10k hp will never notice the difference.. and some of the warriors have already started demanding the same for planar pendant also
So there are 2 ways to be number one if there are 2 lines of equal length..u shorten the other line and increase your own..warrior want it both ways

Now lets look at the practical situation...i was trying to farm fangs(for glintstone set) before but after nerf i could not survive in elite rengol....so how any average rogue will be of any use in lvl 56...If I am a paper in lvl 46 elite....I will be a paper in lvl 56 normal also ..so much for the party...who will want anybody in a party who will die 30 times or more..loool?
How many tanks u need in ur party just to save a rogue..just to remind rogue have no well defined defense mechanism like mages and warriors...and all the skill upgrades /mastery other than razor shield are pretty much useless...
All tank partys with arcane swords are knocking off records...so why will they need anybody else..?...Dont think mages will be useful to them for long after STS brings out some more buffs for them....All the buffs that matter goes to warriors only

[Xinandy]

am a mage with 5.3khp and 1080dmg i die like a paper with rogues one aimed shot when my shield down (before) now i hav a chance for survivablity cos rogues now exchange thy dmg for armor and crit so mages hav a chance now against rogue., but with tank now its a big question 9khp 850dmg 3k armor tanks damage now through the shield

This is reasonable..
Let sts make the decision and do their job.
I hope you guys find the best way to overcome this.

Regards.
Xinandy

[Darkquantum]

There is a very basic difference goodS ir which I may so humbly remind you
First of all I dont do pvp..so all my observations are pve related only

Not a single rogue ever opposed any of the buffs the mages and warriors have been lately getting .Rather everyone of us was supporting that ..bcos we felt that will be good for the overall health of the game ..higher level means tougher mobs with higher hp and damage..and u enter there as a paper
Imagine how u would hv felt going from 41-46 when ur overstall stas was destroyed..just to make one class happy
Mages still need an armor buff...and all(not sure about warr though xD) would have welcomed if STS had gone that way ...after all this we still support it ..

But see at the jubilation (especially so by warriors) after the nerf...Its not the rogues who wanted to be #1 ever..we simply never care..It was the warriors who needs it all through..u find 1.8-2.0k armor for rogues too much...while most of the warriors are running around with. 10k hp,3.5k armor and 800k dmg ..so u call that fair ?We will never be able to kill anybody if we cannot stay alive and our power to kill was also further reduced by nerfing criteria..

Not only that, nerfing rendtail ring was a step aimed towards weakening mages and rogues only..PPl with over 10k hp will never notice the difference.. and some of the warriors have already started demanding the same for planar pendant also
So there are 2 ways to be number one if there are 2 lines of equal length..u shorten the other line and increase your own..warrior want it both ways

Now lets look at the practical situation...i was trying to farm fangs(for glintstone set) before but after nerf i could not survive in elite rengol....so how any average rogue will be of any use in lvl 56...If I am a paper in lvl 46 elite....I will be a paper in lvl 56 normal also ..so much for the party...who will want anybody in a party who will die 30 times or more..loool?
How many tanks u need in ur party just to save a rogue..just to remind rogue have no well defined defense mechanism like mages and warriors...and all the skill upgrades /mastery other than razor shield are pretty much useless...
All tank partys with arcane swords are knocking off records...so why will they need anybody else..?...Dont think mages will be useful to them for long after STS brings out some more buffs for them....All the buffs that matter goes to warriors only

Yes i do think your over exaggerated version of the truth is fair. I like everything about the game now. Yes yes yes

[Tapash Bose]

I believe either u not play much game or never noticed any warr.
We will b very very grateful if u find and post screenshot of a best warrior with 10k health, 3.5k armor and 800 damage all at same time (that warr will b legend of legends and i donate my account to you)
With glintstone set warr armor is 2.4k,
Health is 7.6 (with nekro) and damage 720 (with nekro)...
Rogues have also option for use of diamond and nature jewels.
And also rogue please use heal packs in pve too like warr and mage use heal skills.
A member of my guild got kicked lol just for using heal packs in elite pve (rogues were/became so op to consider using heal packs as noob thing!!!!!?? Then sts has done the correct thing by nerfing armor)

Just before the nerf one warrior in my guild told me that he had 3.0k armor and 800 dmg after buying arcane sword..and I hv no reason not to believe him
I am not taking any names but this was the same warrior who refused to tank with para bcos he had rendtail ring and planar pendant
I have some warrior friends who are very op...but very few in number..and whenever they are online I prefer always to run with them ..but like I said...stats is one thing and using the skills to ur partys advantage is another ..and very few warriors can do that effectively..and they are/were always in high demand
They never ever had to worry about getting parties ..problem is with warriors who dont remember all in the party have the same amount of hp...when they pull a 20 mob crowd in elite .....those are the ones that have problem getting parties and the fault is not in rogue armor
Btw,my warrior,who is hopelessly under-geared with Icescale helm and armor has 2.340 armor and 7k hp,so if the glintstone set cannot offer anything better why use it ?
(my warr and mage share the Rendtail ring and planar pendant with my rogue )

[Tapash Bose]

Currently this is my warr stats with Icescale armor and helm,lvl43 agility belt,Galens maul of defense(all Standard fury) Planar Pendant and Rendtail Ring(all lightning jewel as used by all three)
Pet:Snaggletooth

Strength 674
Bonus dmg 437%
Health 7770
Damage 508.74

Dexterity 117
Dodge 9.94%
Critical 11.95%

Int 123
Mana 1458

DPS 508.74
Armor 2518

Now only Arcane sword can increase my dmg by 147..(though dont hv the money lol)

[arcanesuperio]

Now it is obvious that sts makes changes to the rogue class based on statements like yours. May I dare to point out the totally warped notion about rogues you and the likes of you have been popularizing? Here we go.

Your friend or you, whoever, was kicked for using health packs in elite pve, it was a good move on the kickers part. Health Packs are for use in PVP and Health potions are to be consumed in Elite PVE. It is very basic knowledge. Before you rage, let me explain why. Health packs are packs that do not drop on your character like a mage or warrior's heal. A rogue needs to walk over to them. Walking over takes time. Every nano-second counts in hard elite maps. Hence to save time and be more effective, potions are consumed quickly.


I would like to request warriors/mages like you and others who are reading to not put forward biased opinions because we ourselves are leading sts to shape up the game by telling the devs what we want. When we put forward opinions without deeply probing and thinking about the consequences of nerfs/buffs, it confuses the dev team and in order to appease the majority side they sometimes fumble up.


Let me tell you that I am very happy about the mage and warrior buffs. They make the game competitive and make it balanced so that all of us are able to try out any class we like rater than sticking to only 1 OP class. However maybe not now but later perhaps (hopefully not too late) if you were ever wanting to try out rogue, you'd realise that the slashing of rogue's armor is a bad move. It is not the in the best interest of the game.

Bro, using heal packs only for PvP is your concept (because rogues were too op to use it in pve).

Isn't EVERY NANO SECONDS COUNTED IN PVP?
Ask for chang healing and heal pack system then.
All other class use healing skills in pve.
Ask/suggest dev team to change heal skill of rogue.

[arcanesuperio]

There is a very basic difference goodS ir which I may so humbly remind you
First of all I dont do pvp..so all my observations are pve related only

Not a single rogue ever opposed any of the buffs the mages and warriors have been lately getting .Rather everyone of us was supporting that ..bcos we felt that will be good for the overall health of the game ..higher level means tougher mobs with higher hp and damage..and u enter there as a paper
Imagine how u would hv felt going from 41-46 when ur overstall stas was destroyed..just to make one class happy
Mages still need an armor buff...and all(not sure about warr though xD) would have welcomed if STS had gone that way ...after all this we still support it ..

But see at the jubilation (especially so by warriors) after the nerf...Its not the rogues who wanted to be #1 ever..we simply never care..It was the warriors who needs it all through..u find 1.8-2.0k armor for rogues too much...while most of the warriors are running around with. 10k hp,3.5k armor and 800k dmg ..so u call that fair ?We will never be able to kill anybody if we cannot stay alive and our power to kill was also further reduced by nerfing criteria..

Not only that, nerfing rendtail ring was a step aimed towards weakening mages and rogues only..PPl with over 10k hp will never notice the difference.. and some of the warriors have already started demanding the same for planar pendant also
So there are 2 ways to be number one if there are 2 lines of equal length..u shorten the other line and increase your own..warrior want it both ways

Now lets look at the practical situation...i was trying to farm fangs(for glintstone set) before but after nerf i could not survive in elite rengol....so how any average rogue will be of any use in lvl 56...If I am a paper in lvl 46 elite....I will be a paper in lvl 56 normal also ..so much for the party...who will want anybody in a party who will die 30 times or more..loool?
How many tanks u need in ur party just to save a rogue..just to remind rogue have no well defined defense mechanism like mages and warriors...and all the skill upgrades /mastery other than razor shield are pretty much useless...
All tank partys with arcane swords are knocking off records...so why will they need anybody else..?...Dont think mages will be useful to them for long after STS brings out some more buffs for them....All the buffs that matter goes to warriors only

Again the same thing. Show us screenshot or ign of a warr with 10k hp, 3.5k armor and 800 damage please.
This is misleading statement bhai.

[Solanu]

I have a quick rogue nerf review after a few days playing, but firstly I just want to say to STS that the way you made this armour reduction decision was not very well done. I think that there should have been some warning about this prior to client release, at least then you could say that you gave us time to make adjustments. A lot of players worked hard to get those extra stats and spent a lot of gold doing it, you don't seem to appreciate that at all. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to spend a bit extra pushing our armour back up a bit, but others are not and that isn't really fair on them ;-/

Ok, with that said, I have tested the new armour reduction in both PvE and PvP and have bit of feedback for you.

Firstly PvP, I have tested both CTF and TDM and find it to still be playable even with the massive armour hit, the problem is not the group clashes where you have mage and war heals to support you. The problem is the one on one encounters, or in duels, in both of these sitations a well geared mage or well geared war wins over a well geared rogue. The advantages they both have in armour and damage reduction + stuns means that rogues have little chance right now. I have also tested vs against a very good lvl46 war without the arc sword and I can win some of those match ups. With the arc sword it's pretty much a guarenteed win for them. Versus a mage without a planar pendant, (both of us had arc wep, arc ring and nekro) I won 50% of the matchups. Versus a mage with equal gear I lost every match apart from one where i got a lucky crit in. To me, and this isn't crying about it btw, that aspect is no longer balanced and prior to the update it was, although mages probably needed some extra armour too.

I can also see what you are trying to achieve with this update, however as rogues have developed into little war machines, both war and mage classes have changed their playstyle to keep up. Most wars these days are less tanky and more roguey, to use your language, i.e. they are damage dealers rather than damage takers. Many mages also prefer to run with just dmg skill as that is the direction that the game has gone. I get that you want to address that and bring back more versatility to each class, but to me it seems like they way you did it was pretty unfair to the rogue class.

In PvE the lower armour is pretty much manageable, but, in the tougest maps like elite tindirin and elite glintstone caverns, because of the OP mob attacks, rogues are getting one shotted a lot more and while mages have a nice big shield to protect them, rogues pretty much need to have a nekro or a big bank roll for ankhs. ;-/ Again this does not strike me as massively balanced, and while I see the need for you to reduce armour, I think you have gone a bit overboard with this nerf.

If you want to change the way the game is being played in general, just changing one class is not a very fair way of doing that imo.

Anyways I hope you are still thinking about this and are planning to add some (not all) of the armour you took back, as I do think this will make it more balanced for rogues.

Thanks for listening.

Solanu