You will die at the beetles.Originally Posted by Ireliaa
You will die at the beetles.
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Would like to see you make a video of 4 rogues running the map without using a lot of ankhs just to make it to the end. Dying over and over from beetle charges also doesn't count. All in all it is POSSIBLE to run it like you said but it would be incredibly inefficient, would probably take a huge amount of time and effort and honestly as a rogue who likes not only speed but security on her runs, I would not run in a full rogue party and would like a tank and a mage in party (check the pure time in Elite Southern Gates, my party currently holds the record).
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I can see this topic Zeus started starting to head the wrong way ,it's about a mage not being needed or wanted ( as much ) in new elites . Imo it's not about needing warriors or rogue's ,what Zeus is pointing is hey! S.t.s. do something about the mage before it's to late . Let's make all classes needed wanted and have a role to play .
Hope I'm not stepping on toes .
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I tested this last season when the weapon came out. My tank can clear the first set of t2 mobs about 10 seconds faster than my mage.
#65
Hey Everyone,
Great discussion going on here. Let's try to get this back on track though to the matter at hand! Carapace and I have done some calculations on our side on this topic and have some potential adjustments we want to run by the community. Keep an eye out for a post from one of us discussing what we've found.
To start a summary the things I'm taking away from the post are:
- Glintstone Aegis + Magma negates the need for the Crowd Control of a Sorcerer
- When the CC of a Sorc isn't needed, Rogues kill faster based on the pull sizes of the current content
(this is something I'd like to hear feedback from you all on because I know players weren't as happy with Ren'gol's small pull sizes. We tried to increase that in Underhul to give you bigger pulls, do you feel it worked?)
Yes aegis proc+magma kills mobs faster than a sorcerer, but a mage has two roles, killing crowds fast and crowd control, the crowd control is currently being done mostly by the arcane dagger, rogues proc it to be able to kill and pick off mobs/target so its a two way street.
Both tanks and rogues are taking over from mages, dmg to crowd, tanks, and crowd control, rogues.
Before you nerf the aegis do consider what midieval said, our weapon is op but the tank and its skills are broken, therefore not even 1% of the tanks currently know and have the means to use the full power of aegis+magma because, either they dont know about it or they dont have the means to use aegis+magma combo.
Should the aegis be nerfed we will go back to square one and have no roles in elites except for the new ones to serve as a slightly dmg dealing meat shield, slightly=close to 0.
Rogues skill system is not flawed like the tanks skill system is so they wouldnt suffer much if the arcane daggers should be nerfed, although i dont have a clue if those should be nerfed considering the armor nerf they've undegone lately.
I personally feel bigger pull to be more fun (as long as we are capable of surviving it). I find the normal map pretty fun to run as a mage.
Since bigger pull is in sts's vision, wouldn't it be beneficial for remove the cap for mobs effected by aoe damage? Or else what's the point of crowd control when only 6 out of 15 mobs were effected? (just an example)
I feel what I, and lots of the community want is not a nerf of magma or aegis, but a buff on sorc's ability to CC and kill groups.
Personally my idea buff would be increased critical hit % and no limit of mobs affected by skills.
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We do not want nerf from war Aieges but a buff on sorcerer crowd control. What we would like is to remove the limitations on how many enemies we can hit like from fireball and Gale and such staff possibly. Also we need to crit more often so that would help
I don't care about aegis and magma. I'm saying that if I have TWICE as much damage as a tank and my specialty is aoe not just cc that the gap between the aoe specialist and other classes should be of similar size as the gap between single target specialist and the other classes. If four rogues can melt the boss in x time and 4 mages can melt the boss in y time, the power difference should be proportional to mages melting mobs in x time and rogues and or tanks in y time. I'm not built for just cc. My damage is off the charts. NO WARRIOR COMBO, the "weakest" damage class should even be close to what a Mage with incredibly high damage statistics can output to mobs. What's the point of me having 1500 damage and be aoe and a tank having 800 damage (almost half) but put out anywhere close to similar damage? Makes no sense. Nobody using heal and shield in competitive runs as a Mage. Mages should be better at aoe than other classes in a similar way that rogues are better at single targets.
Imagine if tank have new combo of pet and weapon and were wiping arena with tanks. Everyone would lose their minds. That's what's happening here. With tanks in party, they are completing maps 30% faster than last seasons records on maps that do not get that much faster from season to season. This is a clear sign that something is broken.
If Mage have clock and tanks have jugg with increased taunt and a weapon that does what clock does with no cool down, what's the point. Stop making mages the best at mana. We don't need it. We don't want it. I'm not trying to be the first Mage to 10k mana lol. It's useless.
I would suggest thinking about what Mage is supposed to do better than other classes. Then make them do it in a proportional way as I described above. Tank can survive WAY better than other classes. Rogue can kill one target WAY better than other classes. Mage can do what WAY better than other classes? I wonder...
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I'm going to keep this short and just add to what has already been said . Me personally need to see a mage do what a mage Is suppose to do AOE.damage were not ( I'm not) in a party to provide mana . Imo add one more class that takes care of that .
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Developers don't need to nerf anything, they just need to remove target limitation from sorcerer AOE skills and maybe put a small target limitation on Aegis. By small, I mean only being able to take 7-8 mobs at once. It will keep their damage up without making it that they're overdoing the sorcerer class.
This will also be beneficial so sorcerers do not get buffed any more in PvP (a maxed sorcerer very scary compared to a maxed rogue).
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I'm glad I'm not in your position devs. No matter what you do it seems as though you're going to sorely disappoint a whole lot of people. Is there a solution where everyone will be happy and game integrity won't be compromised?
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Perhaps a solution is add a multiplier to Mage aoe skills that comes into effect the more mobs are being hit. So it won't effect boss for example. It's only one. But damage increases at 2 mob. More at 3 mob etc etc. only for pve ofc. Or else I'll be clocking all 5 in clash. No more light. Just fb and clock Hahahaha.
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That would make them even more OP in a clash based scenario. Unless the multiplier only starts counting after more than 5 mobs.
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You ain't no read. I said pve only
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Ah yes, PvE only then yes. Sorry, my mind only see yellow right now after seeing your set.
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#78
Just to clarify with you all, no nerfs are being considered as a solution to this. The Aegis will eventually age and be phased out, instead we've been doing a wider look at Sorcerers and their role, and why a single weapon could cause a problem to their entire kit.
I only bring up the Aegis because creating a weapon with a similar style of proc in the future will probably require more fine tuning so that it doesn't stomp on the role of another class.
Carry on the discussion.
Yes dont nerf aegis.It's the best cheap weapon warriors have for pve.Just to clarify with you all, no nerfs are being considered as a solution to this. The Aegis will eventually age and be phased out, instead we've been doing a wider look at Sorcerers and their role, and why a single weapon could cause a problem to their entire kit.
I only bring up the Aegis because creating a weapon with a similar style of proc in the future will probably require more fine tuning so that it doesn't stomp on the role of another class.
Carry on the discussion
Instead,a skill buff for mages would help.Like for frostbolt,a 25% chance to freeze up to 5 enemies or for clock, a 25% chance that every 2 seconds for the duration of the skill, up to 8 enemies will be pulled from the outside in the range of the clock and stunned for 0.5 seconds or idk..
Yes pls figure it out. Bc records are being set. So the solution must OVER compensate for this. Am I wrong in expecting if I have the highest damage in the game or very close that I should actually do high damage? Or at least higher than the "lowest damage class?" I hope one day y'all give mages a weapon to take rogues role. Even if just for An April fools joke. I don't feel like being duped again so I will hold off on buying items or popping crates until I'm clear what is possible for a truly maxed Mage. If tank need to spend 3m gold to do what a 150m Mage can in pvp AND pve and the plan is to keep it this way then I'm not sure what to say. Cut the defensive buffs. If we aoe than make us aoe. If we the best at mana than just say it and let us mages move on. I'm not concerned with being able to solo elites with small pulls and dropping clock for a 30 minute run just to say I can. I'm concerned with class efficiency for Mage and everyone else should be too. There is a reason when buffs and nerfs are discussed here about daggers and swords and pvp imbalance that nobody complains about staff or Mage. It's bc we've been turned into a distant afterthought. Not once has anyone even thought "oh my, we should probably nerf the arcane staff." Why? Because it's completely laughable compared to the other weapons. Mage set? Completely 100% useless. Rogue is bad too but there are uses.Just to clarify with you all, no nerfs are being considered as a solution to this. The Aegis will eventually age and be phased out, instead we've been doing a wider look at Sorcerers and their role, and why a single weapon could cause a problem to their entire kit.
I only bring up the Aegis because creating a weapon with a similar style of proc in the future will probably require more fine tuning so that it doesn't stomp on the role of another class.
Carry on the discussion
I'm tired of not getting clear answers. We are owed this. WHAT ARE MAGES SUPPOSED TO BE BEST AT? What is the intended role for this class? And then ask yourselves does that answer make mixed party runs AND pvp more efficient? More effective? Faster? Nobody needs mana in pve. Remove pots for elites then. All will for sure need Mage and prob two.
Don't nerf aegis. Make it so if I'm aoe class and have TWICE the damage as a tank class that I should at least, like at bare minimum do twice as much damage to mobs. So tank can aegis magna all they want and pale in comparison to Mage. Same way that both tank and mage pale in comparison to rogue in arena or single target.
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