PvP

[WhoIsThis]

Whoisthis: I see your point. If thats the way the devs designed the game, fine. I'm no longer country touch pvp, just like the majority of people in the game. This twinking was actually exactly what I wanted to stop, so that pvp would be fair. If its part of the game, I accept that.

That is entirely your decision. My goal was not to discourage you from PvPing, but I re-emphasize that if you are not willing to put in as much, if not more effort in PvP than PvE (because it is "harder" as your opponent is another human with a character that rivals yours, versus a lot of weak opponents and a boss or two per level in PvE), then you are not going to do well in PvP. I consider myself to be a be bad at PvP. (I know there are a few people who would disagree with me on that). I have spent over 5 million gold in equipment for my mage at the level cap. I have tried dozens of combinations of equipment, and combos. At the end of the day, I'm still a noob at pvp. And I have nobody to blame but myself. I know though that if I persist, I will likely get better. In some 1v1 encounters with leaderboard players, I have managed to come out victorious in fights. (I often play CTF where 1v1 encounters, depending on the map are not uncommon). As mentioned before, I consider my skills less than satisfactory.

What I'm saying is, PvP is a sort of a commitment. There's the perception I think that because this is a "casual" game played on a phone that you can be outstanding without lots of practice. In reality, this game has lots of depth and demands lots of practice. PvP in that sense is not radically different than say, a multiplayer FPS game on a PC. It's fast paced, very unforgiving towards mistakes (of which I've made many), and requires constant practice. The PvE component is more casual, but you can usually tell who is an outstanding player and who isn't. Getting tens or hundreds of thousands of PvE kills really does impact how you play and your skills.

If you ever reconsider and want help in PvP, you'd best ask HerWolf for help. HerWolf is the twink expert.


Edit:
Noobmigo has already addressed the other points. PvP is restricted by level for a reason. People should play with similar levels for fairness reasons. Level 56s should not be up against level 30s. This was mentioned before. This is not desired for a reason. Balance. People create twinks for a reason. If you like twink warfare, but want a level cap char, level your main to the cap or near the cap and create an alt.

[Aftermath]

And if the gear pool has neither of the equipment you mentioned? Sorry if I didnt make this clear: the pool wouldnt be very big per game. However, it would be completely different game to game.

[noobmigo]

And if the gear pool has neither of the equipment you mentioned? Sorry if I didnt make this clear: the pool wouldnt be very big per game. However, it would be completely different game to game.

If the gear pool had none of the equipment I mentioned, the PvPers would ALL CHOOSE THE BEST ITEMS IN THE ARENA, THE SAME ITEMS. Did I not make that clear in one of my posts?

[noobmigo]

I've thought this through again, and again. Another compromise would be to just invent another whole set for PvP, that you couldn't use in PvE.
Or maybe the items would be nerfed/upgraded automatically when you hit a PvP game.

So when you entered a PvP game, a Fury Fighters Plate would have more armor, less dodge. when you left, the stats would be reverted back to original.
I think.

[Aftermath]

Whoisthis: I guess I just wanted to make the game fair for the people who did not invest so much time in the game, so they can play with others of similar experience.

[Aftermath]

Noobmigo: sure, thats another idea. And what if items were balanced in the item pool, using, say, your own proposal to nerf some equipment?

[noobmigo]

Noobmigo: sure, thats another idea. And what if items were balanced in the item pool, using, say, your own proposal to need some equipment?

What? My own proposal to need some equipment? Reword that please? I don't understand, sorry.

[Aftermath]

My phone has annoying autocorrect. Im getting rid of it now. The hazard.

[WhoIsThis]

Whoisthis: I guess I just wanted to make the game fair for the people who did not invest so much time in the game, so they can play with others of similar experience.

I don't buy that argument. How is it fair that a person who has very little time invested in the game has equal skills to a person that has spent thousands of hours playing? People who spend lots of time at something are going to be better at it, just like everything else in life. What I see is a person that wants to be good at PvP - an admirable goal. But it will take time, plat, and practice. Unwilling to spend that time, you seem more keen on blaming the system, game mechanics, and experienced players. All of these have flaws, but for the most part is meritocratic.

@Noobmigo:

Despite its flaws, I think that the current system of allowing all equipment in both PvE and PvP is probably the best compromise. The only thing that I would advocate banning is the Founder's Helm, which makes little difference at the level cap, but at low level twinking can be unbalancing.

[Aftermath]

But that person who spent more time has an advantage not only in experience. Its similar to playing an fps with someone not only better than you at the game, but also has double health.
If all item unfairness was neutralized, then the people that have experience would still win most the time. Just like in every rts ever, in dota, in halo. Wont be replying no more, its past my bed time.

[WhoIsThis]

But that person who spent more time has an advantage not only in experience. Its similar to playing an fps with someone not only better than you at the game, but also has double health.
If all item unfairness was neutralized, then the people that have experience would still win most the time. Just like in every rts ever, in dota, in halo.

You don't get double health from pinks. I sound like parrot, but pinks only offer a slight advantage. This is not an RTS game like Starcraft. In an RTS, you have a headquarters, depending on the RTS, worker units. Get resources, build up a base, conquer the enemy. Completely different. This is an RPG and you have equipment. Equipment does make a difference, but you don't need top-end pinks to do well.

Pinks also gives people something to aspire to in PvE - collection of the sets. The other reason is that it encourages PvP players to play PvE and not PvP exclusively. They need the sets or money for the sets. They have advantage and they should, otherwise pinks would not be valuable. How do you propose the economy of PL would run?

Despite everything, this thread has reinforced my opinion that the current system is better than any equipment restricting system.

[cuard]

after math yes this fourms helps but not newbs like you who make half a dozen threads with stupid questoins. and think the know everything i answerd ur last thread helping you so just shudddup aiight?

[WhoIsThis]

after math yes this fourms helps but not newbs like you who make half a dozen threads with stupid questoins. and think the know everything i answerd ur last thread helping you so just shudddup aiight?

Lets try to keep this polite.


@Aftermath:

I do have question for you. What are you going to do from here? This is the part where you take responsibility. Either you make the commitment or you don't, in which case you won't excel at PvP. You're not going to get something for nothing. At level cap, birds are can be incredibly lethal opponents, so it's not your character or anything like that. It is not the fault of game mechanics, for a system which, while it has flaws, is largely meritocratic.

The only person that is responsible is you. You deserve all of the blame and praise. You are not going to become Xrax or Lone (both are now gone, but they were the best birds around) without effort. So from here, I exit this thread with this. You can either keep blaming others (experienced players) for your own failures, or you can accept responsibility.

[Register]

after math yes this fourms helps but not newbs like you who make half a dozen threads with stupid questoins. and think the know everything i answerd ur last thread helping you so just shudddup aiight?

This forum has no place for that kind of talk. If you decide to hate on aftermath, then dont even come to this thread.

Aftermath, I see your point and pvp is kinda unbalanced but everybody WOULD choose the same gear. Also, warbirds are birds who use str weapons. But sometimes the fun of pvping is seeing that odd build that owns everybody. I would hate to see everybody use the same gear! If you think you have a disadvantage in pvp because of gear, then either:

1. Get better gear

OR

2. Get more skill

You said yourself that skill is needed to excell in pvp and you can always get more ya know. If you get more skill, you wont lose all the time. Changing the entire system would be a terrible idea just because some people have more gold and can afford the best equipment. A better solution is for characters to balance pvp by getting more skill.

[Ellyidol]

Hi Aftermath!

Don't need to worry, like you said, this was a suggestion - some people are just not as enthusiastic to change.

Anyway, it sounds like you had a bad experience coming into the PvP world. Sounds to me like you came across a couple of seasoned dex bears with Rage 6 that ended up few-shotting you, just a guess.

But I have to disagree with the suggestion. Like WhoIsThis has said, gear doesn't give THAT much of an edge. Yes it does give an advantage, but gear alone doesn't tip the match between a win/lose.

What you're suggesting really sounds like an FPS, like CounterStrike. Before every match, everyone gets to buy stuff. Weapons, armors, accessories, etc. And yes, CS is almost a 90% game of skill, but putting two equally skilled players against each other, that's where gear comes in.

Of course, if you are completely new to PvP and you come across even a "noob" in PvP but had extremely good gear (making the gear-gap between both of you really huge), then gear alone could win that fight. That's the thing, PL is an mmoRPG, and in all the RPGs I've played, gear is always a huge factor in the game. Being able to build up wealth for gear is an essential part of making any RPG, moreover, MMORPG work.

In relation to what nmigo said, I agree. Twink PvP, although as new as I am, seems more like the appropriate PvP rather than end-game. I have very strong opinions on end-game PvP, but doesn't belong in this thread.

WhoIsThis said it exactly right, I too suggest to spend more time learning and experiencing PvP - it is definitely different in this game. Also, I suggest levelling to cap (currently 56, 61 soon) then testing out PvP at end-game. I've always thought it was better to play through the entire game and learn your character fully before passing judgement or opinion in twinking.

Trust me, end game PvP is very very different from twinking. A lot less gear reliant since STS has offered more variety of gear from the different rarities instead of pink-only gear. Hopefully you'll be willing to try it out once you reach cap

[Aftermath]

Replying to each person in one post is difficult on phone, so I apologize in advance for multiple posts.
Cuard: I'm not sure what you mean by this forum is for helping but not for newbs (I've played a decent amount, although no where bloody near most people here, but I'm not completely clueless). I need some confirmation for this one. Is this really the case? New players are not welcome in this forum? I need a person of significantly greater brain capacity to answer this.

Also, last time I checked (five minutes ago), I have not made half a dozen threads, or is your definition of half a dozen equivalent to two? If so, throw out your dictionary. Now.

As for your stupid threads comment, I am sure everybody will agree that my inquiry of the dragged-back function in the game was not stupid. This thread may be stupid in some peoples eyes, but this goes back to my newbs question, are newbs welcome or not?

Lastly, I'm not sure of this is an elaborate troll attempt, you see mentally incapable, or if you are foreign to the English language, but your grammar, punctuation and spelling could really use some work.

[Aftermath]

I meant "or are you" in the previous comment

Whoisthis: I did not say pinks give double health, I was merely drawing a comparison. As for what I am going to do from now: I am not touching pvp until (maybe) I become a level 56 and start end-game pvp or twink. As you said, this game is different to the other games, as you mentioned. I don't like pvp because of this, so I won't be surprised if I never touch it. I recently read the excellent archer guide by psychologic (I think that's he's name) and I found that he doesn't like pvp either, although for what reason I don't know. Either way, I found it a boost in morale for me, albeit a cheap one.

[Aftermath]

Hi ellyidol!

Also @ register:
What I wanted was for pvp to be completely fair, and skilled based only. The item pool may have gaping holes, but I see no other solution, hence my drive to getting advice from others.

As I see it, there is just no point in playing at all against a twinking opponent. I have never seen anybody beat one without it being many against one. I wanted the entire player base to be able to play pvp with some hope of winning, not getting completely nailed. This was another part of my suggestion: skill points would be reset in pvp too,so others could try out more effective pvp builds too, without having to spend money of repeated respecs. This way, others could try out the 'rage 6' that was mentioned.

Then again, as I mentioned in my other post, twinking is part of the game, I accept that, there is nothing I can do about it.

[LADYHADASSA]

I can see where entry lvl pvp players would run into frusturation, and yes indeed to commit to pvp one has to spend money in many respects u less they are fortunate enough to have another player who knows builds give them a build.

However... Two players can have the exact same gear, attributes and skills and have one player "own" anither over and again. Pvp does require skill learning timing is somthing that takes time, and practice.

If I where to suggest anything for new pvp players I would suggest a map or maby two be added for new players, somehow, incorperating a kill cap, that would send graduated players to the main spine maps. Perhapse one that allows "teachers" to hoast 1v1 games to new pvp players without having to lock a room that keeps unknown players out of the maps.

For now I suggest new pvp players contact other pvp players for a locked room tutorial and pointers. Many will help, though i would not expect them to give out their builds, but suggestions on basic builds are offered here in the forums.

[WhoIsThis]

I meant "or are you" in the previous comment

Whoisthis: I did not say pinks give double health, I was merely drawing a comparison. As for what I am going to do from now: I am not touching pvp until (maybe) I become a level 56 and start end-game pvp or twink. As you said, this game is different to the other games, as you mentioned. I don't like pvp because of this, so I won't be surprised if I never touch it. I recently read the excellent archer guide by psychologic (I think that's he's name) and I found that he doesn't like pvp either, although for what reason I don't know. Either way, I found it a boost in morale for me, albeit a cheap one.

As a close friend of Physiologic, I can tell you that the main reason that he dislikes PvP is because he had some bad experiences in PvP and finds many of the PvPers what is fond of calling "immature". It is true that a lot of people in PvP are people who well, lets just say you probably wouldn't want to meet in real life. Twink warfare, especially around level 30-35 is the worst for insults, cursing, etc. (On an unrelated note, I gave up on twink warfare for that reason. Level cap is more mature, although there are still people who will insult you or use underhanded tactics.) The other reason is that he thinks of PL as a PvE-optimized game, not a PvP one.

I do have one other question for you - do you expect to excel and beat players who have played for hundreds of hours in multiplayer the first time you start multiplayer in any game? When I started PvP on my mage, I lost pretty much every 1v1 that I fought in. It was only after I got a couple of dozen deaths that I began to understand proper tactics.