PvP Balance Adjustments and PvP Tiers

[Cinco]

So - a couple of things:

First, a salute to you all for being such good sports about all of these crazy changes! You guys took the high-road all weekend and kept discussions (here, in game and in PM) civil and constructive! We all appreciate having such a loyal and invested community :-)

Second, we are going to return to our old system of matchmaking. Far too many concerns about abandoning hard-won, expensive gear and no good way to fix that. This isn't to say there haven't been tons of great, creative ideas about how to equitably move players within brackets - but there are just too many exceptions in the way of old items, discontinued drops, etc. to make a really rock-solid upscale / downscale system possible.

Lastly, we are going to keep the behind-the-scenes arena modifiers we've been working on over the last few weeks. We were successful in adjusting balance at the highest 'tier' of the game, but had poor results at the teen and 20's (because the adjustments required to make 40 and 50+ gear feel right made the stuff under 30 feel really useless). Again, although these adjustments are set up in level-ranges they do not affect matchmaking; only the players themselves. We benefit from this by doing stuff like, the first 10 levels get no adjustment. All other groups of 5 levels get a 5% reduction to damage and healing... and certain problematic groups (should they arise) could get their own specific adjustments. This sets us up to respond to reports of balance problems in the future very quickly.

I expect this update to happen this week but can't commit to exactly when just yet.
Thanks again!

- Cinco

[Alexandr_Leopardiks]

May I ask you why did you do these 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 zones? If you really want to do some good for twinks, you should do 1-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19 zones and add stuff like tarlok ones, on 5, 10, 15lvls, so everyone in that tier will have same basic items and a bit same stats.
Also you might add stats like on deary ring- the different stats for every level: (tank, amulet) for 15l like 24str 12int 26armor, for 16lvl- 22str, 12int 25armor, etc etc, you may complete my idea by yourselves, I am not sure about right stats. I am about the hole idea of reducing stats of same items for each level in tier.
I hope you will listen to these ideas. It is just like variations of what you may do about balance if you really want to keep 5lvl zones update.
(I wrote it few hours ago but havent had wifi, so I still want to add this idea here)

[Thaze]

Thanks to the STS team for listening and working hard to find the correct solution!

[resurrected]

So - a couple of things:

First, a salute to you all for being such good sports about all of these crazy changes! You guys took the high-road all weekend and kept discussions (here, in game and in PM) civil and constructive! We all appreciate having such a loyal and invested community :-)

Second, we are going to return to our old system of matchmaking. Far too many concerns about abandoning hard-won, expensive gear and no good way to fix that. This isn't to say there haven't been tons of great, creative ideas about how to equitably move players within brackets - but there are just too many exceptions in the way of old items, discontinued drops, etc. to make a really rock-solid upscale / downscale system possible.

Lastly, we are going to keep the behind-the-scenes arena modifiers we've been working on over the last few weeks. We were successful in adjusting balance at the highest 'tier' of the game, but had poor results at the teen and 20's (because the adjustments required to make 40 and 50+ gear feel right made the stuff under 30 feel really useless). Again, although these adjustments are set up in level-ranges they do not affect matchmaking; only the players themselves. We benefit from this by doing stuff like, the first 10 levels get no adjustment. All other groups of 5 levels get a 5% reduction to damage and healing... and certain problematic groups (should they arise) could get their own specific adjustments. This sets us up to respond to reports of balance problems in the future very quickly.

I expect this update to happen this week but can't commit to exactly when just yet.
Thanks again!

- Cinco

So you mean we will get back old PvP rooms and nerf again? I don't see really how nerf will help now.

[Muteds]

Thank you for listening to us,
we know sts will do ther best, this new system is good, but this is really going to make up the gap between the players because of the limited items items that have a gem like the.
Once again, thank you
my idea:
#Level areas pvp one level up and down
for example, level 1 2 3 - 3 4 5 - 5 6 7 - . . . . . .

[Lawpvp]

So you mean we will get back old PvP rooms and nerf again? I don't see really how nerf will help now.

Yes to old pvp rooms, nerfs are staying as they are currently not the old system where only rogues had damage nerf and tanks had damage buff. I believe he is saying all classes will continue having equal damage nerfs but i think they are playing around with the values more, ex: 1-10 0%, 11-15 5%, 16-20 10%

Kudos to sts for making what i believe to be the right decision. I know you guys were just trying something new that could help you guys balance the nerfs easier and potentially bring more balance to twinks. Although with the concerns that were at hand, im glad a compromise was found.

Ps. As much as i may have railed on some ideas its only because pvp is so fun

[resurrected]

Yes to old pvp rooms, nerfs are staying as they are currently not the old system where only rogues had damage nerf and tanks had damage buff. I believe he is saying all classes will continue having equal damage nerfs but i think they are playing around with the values more, ex: 1-10 0%, 11-15 5%, 16-20 10%

Kudos to sts for making what i believe to be the right decision. I know you guys were just trying something new that could help you guys balance the nerfs easier and potentially bring more balance to twinks. Although with the concerns that were at hand, im glad a compromise was found.

I'm fine with rooms. I'm 14 and many of my friends 15 didn't played cause challenge was too easy. I just was upset cause nerf will be back. Grrr.

[Lawpvp]

I'm fine with rooms. I'm 14 and many of my friends 15 didn't played cause challenge was too easy. I just was upset cause nerf will be back. Grrr.

the nerfs were already there, in fact they are lowering the nerfs for u...

[resurrected]

the nerfs were already there, in fact they are lowering the nerfs for u...

I didn't get it. Nerf will be bigger , lower or stay same

[Redjellydonut]

Thank you STS!!! 😭😭😭

[Cons]

Thank you STS!!

[Upperbound]

With new system of 5% per group of 5 level: so for example the 15 vs 16 and 15 vs 17 will be more balanced: 15 will have 5% nerf and 16-17 will have 10% nerf, right?

[kinzmet]

Alas! In the end we returned to the old match making. I guess the twink community is not ready for the change yet and the tier-bracket system is ahead of its time.
I would suggest if ever they would want to implement it in the future, make sure that :

1. There is already abundance of the new and powerful twink gears per bracket.
2. Inform us ahead of time!
3. New jewels available at twink levels that won't affect the endgame much but comparable to Para and Eye power.

@Cinco, If you guys still want to "test" the tier-bracket then maybe implement it in only one map (say the Blood Beach)? We had three PvP maps after all.

[Zynzyn]

@Cinco, If you guys still want to "test" the tier-bracket then maybe implement it in only one map (say the Blood Beach)? We had three PvP maps after all.

No thanks. The dev's decision regarding returning to the old system for matchmaking is fine. Imo, there is no necessity to enable lvl 15s to kill lvl 11s, in all maps or one. They placed us in Tiers to make balance-adjustments Tier wise. Matchmaking does not need that.

[Otahaanak]

The intent, I believe, was to get everyone to move to the top tier of the brackets - easier management all the way around IMO. The Para / Eye issue is resolved now at end-game, I guess that was the downfall here - too many unwilling to do what the end gamers do every cap: replace millions in gear for the game to progress.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

[kinzmet]

The intent, I believe, was to get everyone to move to the top tier of the brackets - easier management all the way around IMO. The Para / Eye issue is resolved now at end-game, I guess that was the downfall here - too many unwilling to do what the end gamers do every cap: replace millions gear for the game to progress.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

This! You took the words out of my head.



Its just that, most of the in-between twinkers are fixated on thier precious gears that they are too stucked to move up. They rather have the hard-won expensive gears and face opponents 1 or 2 levels above than same level fights on new gears.

[Zynzyn]

They rather have the hard-won expensive gears and face opponents 1 or 2 levels above than same level fights on new gears.

Exactly! We twinks rather have our hard-won expensive equipment and face opponents 1-2 levels higher because the gear was hard-won. That is what twinking means - to work hard at maxing our gear for pvp. Suppose all levels had to discard their hard-won gear and play at the same level, nobody would have had a problem because it would have been a change for 100% of pvp players. But the situation now is that only a section of twinks would need to replace their equipment to level up while the other half who are already at 15,20,25,etc have to do absolutely nothing.

I am very happy that devs saw this and decided to stick to the old system for matchmaking. The players who still want a 5 level gap in matchmaking I believe would only want it to get extremely easy kills from players of levels much much lower than them. Regardless of whether I belonged to the half that is already established at the top level of the Tier I dont think such easy kills are any fun. Thumbs up for the upcoming update regarding the Tier system.

[kinzmet]

Exactly! We twinks rather have our hard-won expensive equipment and face opponents 1-2 levels higher because the gear was hard-won. That is what twinking means - to work hard at maxing our gear for pvp. Suppose all levels had to discard their hard-won gear and play at the same level, nobody would have had a problem because it would have been a change for 100% of pvp players. But the situation now is that only a section of twinks would need to replace their equipment to level up while the other half who are already at 15,20,25,etc have to do absolutely nothing.

I am very happy that devs saw this and decided to stick to the old system for matchmaking. The players who still want a 5 level gap in matchmaking I believe would only want it to get extremely easy kills from players of levels much much lower than them. Regardless of whether I belonged to the half that is already established at the top level of the Tier I dont think such easy kills are any fun. Thumbs up for the upcoming update regarding the Tier system.

I beg to differ, twinking means having a low level toon and give it the top gears, gems/jewels and pets. Usually for farming events, haunlet run records and PvP purposes.

There will be no 5 levels gap if everyone would go level up to the top tier of the bracket. Since having everyone to go for the top is the intent of having a tier.


Why stick to old-match making?

1. To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier gears.
2. To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier guilds (in cases of L10-11, L15-16 etc).
3. Scarcity of gears with special gems on top tier per bracket.

Why not?

1. No real game progress at twinking area, it will remain the same even after years since it was first introduced.
2. A lot of dramas about PvP figths with uneven level (L10 complain about 12s, L16 about L17 etc)
3. Some brackets are unpopulated while others are overpopulated. The tier system will lessen the level choices which players have to choose (ever see a thread with "what level is active?"). Instead of choosing from 2 to 20, the choices was lessen to 4 choices bracket 5, 10, 15 and 20. Its a good thing, since it will concentrate the population to 4 divisions, it means more enemies and more guilds.

I'm happy since I can play with my L16 twink again, but unhappy since the twinkers were short-sighted and didn't see what the devs saw for the future.

[Zynzyn]

I beg to differ, twinking means having a low level toon and give it the top gears, gems/jewels and pets. Usually for farming events, haunlet run records and PvP purposes.

There will be no 5 levels gap if everyone would go level up to the top tier of the bracket. Since having everyone to go for the top is the intent of having a tier.


Why stick to old-match making?

1. To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier gears.
2. To giveway for twinkers to stick to thier guilds (in cases of L10-11, L15-16 etc).
3. Scarcity of gears with special gems on top tier per bracket.

Why not?

1. No real game progress at twinking area, it will remain the same even after years since it was first introduced.
2. A lot of dramas about PvP figths with uneven level (L10 complain about 12s, L16 about L17 etc)
3. Some brackets are unpopulated while others are overpopulated. The tier system will lessen the level choices which players have to choose (ever see a thread with "what level is active?"). Instead of choosing from 2 to 20, the choices was lessen to 4 choices bracket 5, 10, 15 and 20. Its a good thing, since it will concentrate the population to 4 divisions, it means more enemies and more guilds.

The intent of the Tier as is obvious in the post by Cinco is now only for balance adjustments. And it is perfect this way.

We are sticking to the old match making to prevent a scenario where one level at the top farms people 5 levels below them. As simple as that. As for your claim that this enables twinks to stick to their gear, I should remind that as per your wished system, "new gear" will not be for everyone, only half of the twinks will have to start from scratch while the other half )top levels of the tier will have a very convenient position where they are able to farm extreme low-levels. (For example 15 1-shotting 11s.) No thank you.

I am done posting to you since we have already received official confirmation about this. I do request and encourage sts to release better gear in future events and caps which can be used by everyone and which everyone has equal opportunity to acquire.

[Lawpvp]

The intent, I believe, was to get everyone to move to the top tier of the brackets - easier management all the way around IMO. The Para / Eye issue is resolved now at end-game, I guess that was the downfall here - too many unwilling to do what the end gamers do every cap: replace millions in gear for the game to progress.



IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty

Endgamere have to replace their gear because they are lvling up, twinks are not. As soon as arcane ring is replaced as the best lvl 41 ring(since this is now a twinking level too lvl 41 gear should progress with other twink levels aswell)they can replace twink gear and ill be fine with having to "progress". You cant pick and choose levels that should have gear progrss, either all twink levels or none of them. Til then, dont bother