Guild Etiquette...suggestions and ideas :)

[Flowman]

You missed my point.
You cannot force 'guidelines' or 'outlines' upon people, because frankly I'm going to do what I want. You can't get all GM's to vote on rules because you're not possibly going to get every single GM to reply. And most importantly, who's going to enforce these 'guidelines?" Having guidelines to show how to properly represent a guild is taking away originality. People are going to talk trash. People aren't going to like other people. It's life. Making a "lets all get along" constitution is going to end up being a bunch of writing that some try-hards take way too seriously and end up annoying everyone with.

[Acyer]

You missed my point.You cannot force 'guidelines' or 'outlines' upon people, because frankly I'm going to do what I want. You can't get all GM's to vote on rules because you're not possibly going to get every single GM to reply. And most importantly, who's going to enforce these 'guidelines?" Having guidelines to show how to properly represent a guild is taking away originality. People are going to talk trash. People aren't going to like other people. It's life. Making a "lets all get along" constitution is going to end up being a bunch of writing that some try-hards take way too seriously and end up annoying everyone with.

+1 totally understand where you're coming from.

[Moogerfooger]

Kallima, although your intent is admirable, especially given your long-standing rep in-game and on the forum, this is entirely unenforceable. I think most will try to be decent leaders just out of character, but just like the Court of Alterra idea way back when, you can't force guidelines on other people. I know that if I were a guild leader and someone told me I *had* or *ought* to conform to someone else's Constitution/guidelines, even if they were terrific, I would tell them to go pound sand.

Not to mention guild drama is often the entire reason people get so into them, ironically. If everyone were shiny happy kumbaya-lets-hold-hands guilds, lol, interest would wane. Seen it in a dozen games.

[Thenill]

Ok very true every guild has there own rules. That is not where I was going in this im not going to say every guild should have the same rules. But the guild masters should set some guide lines for how all of us want this to go. Also true if a member of a guild leaves its what they want to do. I on the other hand am upset that when I get on an officer in my guild tells me another guild keeps bugging him to join and keeps pushing the subject that is not the right way to try for new members and I find it highly rude as most anyone who has ever been in a guild or been the master of a guild would

Also my post that we should get on to talk about things that we all want and how we all want guild guide lines when dealing with other guilds you know like a do and do not list.

Like so if your member is cutting down another guild there should be some action taken. thats not guild friendly nor game friendly

P.s. Maybe we should start a thread for guild master to talk in.

[Moogerfooger]

Aren't the synthetic thrills of rivalry, conflict, and general drama the REAL reasons people create/join guilds?

Bingo, 99% of the time.

[Acyer]

Aren't the synthetic thrills of rivalry, conflict, and general drama the REAL reasons people create/join guilds? Also, LOL at video game etiquette.

Hit it on the nail bud.....but if you bring this to the game your labeled "Elitist" like are guild has been at times.

[Physiologic]

Can't contribute much to this thread as our upcoming guild will have the universal rule of "Once you join, you can leave and come back whenever you want without any hassle."

Aren't the synthetic thrills of rivalry, conflict, and general drama the REAL reasons people create/join guilds?

Also, LOL at video game etiquette.

Just wanted to say hey Band.

[Acyer]

Also 1 thing has came to my mind. Enough with the spy junk really is it needed? I mean or do you want to know how many times are guild held hands so you can go back and hold ya'lls longer.

[Moogerfooger]

Can't contribute much to this thread as our upcoming guild will have the universal rule of "Once you join, you can leave and come back whenever you want without any hassle."

I hear they will be called The Taterheads? I like taters.

[Physiologic]

I hear they will be called The Taterheads? I like taters.

[Moogerfooger]

Great, that will be stuck in my head the rest of the night. Damn you.

[Acyer]

I guess.

[kallima]

Well I definitely did not join a guild for the drama, and hopefully there are others like me, but as I said in my OP this was an idea, so all feedback, whether for or against was welcome. I personally am not a GM so thought I would throw the idea out there, some ideas are implemented others are not. No biggie either way, but I brought this to everyone's attention because I personally have been recruited AFTER clearly stating I was happy with my guild. And I would love to flatter myself that I'm just that awesome but know that, more than likely, it is more a numbers thing. I thought it was in poor taste so wanted to find a neutral way to prevent such things.

But all seem to agree that it's all common sense, if so - why would it be so difficult to get all GM's to agree on some basic rules of good form?

And honestly, don't all guilds have some rules of conduct? Why not create a basic one? Flowman, you say you would tell a guild to go shove it if they dared dictate your behavior, but younare in a guild, they have no guidelines? So if you scammed a fellow guild member it would be okay? If you scammed a newbie and they got a screenshot of it, you wouldn't be kicked out? I think your taking my idea and running with it with some preconceived notions of your own, this is not a sorority - this would not dictate who can be your friends, what is acceptable gear, or what comes out of your mouth - this would be simply stating these are all the things with which one can comply or be kicked out of said guild. Much like the TOS to which you are already adhering. But in a more relaxed form.

@Moog - yes, I do see the similarities between this and the court of Alterra, so maybe I was just naive. I think because I'm so new to mmo's and the guild idea, I'm afforded that luxury. And believe me, having a hopeful outlook is a luxury, compared to a cynical one!

P.S. I do think those that want to "try" guilds on is fine, but actively recruiting then telling someone why their choice is a bad idea is just distasteful, and frankly if I were a GM and found out an officer was doing that, they would definitely be kicked out.

[Moogerfooger]

@Moog - yes, I do see the similarities between this and the court of Alterra, so maybe I was just naive. I think because I'm so new to mmo's and the guild idea, I'm afforded that luxury. And believe me, having a hopeful outlook is a luxury, compared to a cynical one!

There is a difference between 'cynical' and 'realistic/having observed guild antics/behavior/dynamics in other games'

Agrred that each guild could/should have some sort of internal rules (or lack thereof, if that is their choice), but still gonna argue against any kind of enforced 'guidelines' outside of ToS violations. Not to mention again they are unenforceable as a whole, like the Court idea. Let people run their groups as they want, and generally things can be pretty decent as most want to be well-respected out of nature

Off to go find some taters....

[kallima]

Well, my intention was definitely not be assume a self righteous tone, but my extensive reading of the forums has led me to believe that what I've mentioned has been summarily agreed upon, don't poach members unless they initiate the conversation, don't bash other guilds, and not to boot solely upon guild associations. And yes, I think my rules of etiquette are perfect, for me, I don't intend to impose them on all, as I said in my OP this was for guild masters to throw around and toy with the idea, of which I am not.

And for those that go around breaking them in a game I host, yes I will boot, I don't tolerate rudeness in any form especially if unjustified.

I've stated already I appreciated all feedback and could care less if it was implemented. It was a suggestion, not an order or imperative. Those usually aren't accompanied by an open symposium for all to offer their comments. People are welcome to their perspectives, those that know me, know my intent. As I said earlier, the first mmo I played was PL, the first guild I joined was in SL so the concept of "people joining just for drama" is absolutely foreign to me, especially when 90% of the current guilds' "manifestos" state we want everyone to join for fun and those not interested in fun, frivolity or team spirit need not apply. Where does the drama even start if guild members are chosen on how well they would mesh with a group?

And no, I will never stop trying, but thank you for the heads up! One can learn as much from negative feedback/backlash than from positive ones, sometimes even more so, as they challenge one's current mindset!

[Quientar]

I think it is pointless to even discuss or argue about getting all guilds to agree to a set of rules or guidelines...or even just one. There will always be someone who will not adhere to em. There is no way to enforce the guidelines (as someone said before, cant remember name, sorry). Guilds are meant to be different and their own unique entity.

If the guilds all adhered to the same rules or guidelines, what would be the point in having multiple guilds? we would all be effectively in the same guild in that case. guilds are meant to be at each others throats or in contention. This will really show itself when pvp gets implemented.

i personally disagree with recruiting ppl in other guilds, but my beliefs are not everyones. yes, i would like to see respect and not actively recruit from other guilds and not pm'ing everyone in game about joining their guild...but some guilds are all about that (or will be).

as a note...there is a thread with a list of guilds (atleast the ones who posted there for Cascade to compile into a comprehensive list). it might be an idea to add to that list with a summary or guild type or motto for the guild or something (yes i know this suggestion should be posted there and will do so.)

But, thats just my 2 cents worth. take it for what it is

[Thenill]

All to true not eveyone will listen to rules. So I understand how eveyone feels on here. Also in this whole thing I dont think it was about, making every guild follow the same guidelines. I think this was about actions that most everyone would see as rude.

( like bashing on others guilds.)
( being bugged by other guilds to join when its been stated that the person being bugged is happy with the guild they are in)
( bad mouthing some for joining some other guild)


I in truth think that rivals are a foundation for guilds and is part of the fun of being in one.

That does not mean in any way drama. If that is a reason someone is in a guild to start drama then that is a poor reason to be in on. While on this every guild forum I read says drama free. So that was a waste for people to say thats one of the reason for joining a guild.

[Thenill]

Also didnt even remember to say. This is BETA and everyone know what happens once there are to many people fighting about something in pl they remove it. If it gets to a point that tomany people are mad about other guilds and there members and causes a big problem sts could just pull the whole guild idea

[Quientar]

honestly it all comes down to respecting other guilds even if you dont agree with what they stand for, and common courtesy. some people will have them, some wont, and some just wont care.

there will always be people saying "guild a" is better than "guild b" and such like that. all we can do is ask for ppl to keep it clean and such. there is no way to stop anything else...and i really wouldnt want to. this is part of what make guilds worthwhile and fun...the alliances between guilds as well as the arguments and competition between guilds.



if there are problems with guilds going too far between themselves while 90% of the guilds staying within the guidelines sts set out for playing the games, im sure they will do something beside removing guilds. sorta along the same line as offensive comments on the room chat in game. after playing with guilds in SL, i dont see guilds as being a problem at all, and actually think it is a good thing. it will be individual people that will be the problem (or maybe small groups of ppl)

[Flowman]

Flowman, you say you would tell a guild to go shove it if they dared dictate your behavior

If some other kid from another guild told me my etiquette was 'inappropriate of guild behavior' I'd probably tell them to stop being such a nerd. No one over a video game is going to tell me what I can and cant do. I respect the people I'm friends with enough where if they ask me to stop, I'll stop. I'm not a little boy, I know when what I'm doing is considered out of line or inappropriate. If someone judges my guild based on my behavior alone, they're not the brightest crayons in the box. No man or woman on a equal playing field as myself (note, devs aren't considered here; they can ban) is superior to me when it comes to my actions, and I will not be TOLD what I have to do.

but younare in a guild, they have no guidelines?

Only rule I can think of is don't be a **** head. A lot of words will work there, take your pick. We're not 11 year old girly boys, we're fully capable of governing ourselves while still maintaining respect for the people who assembled our group together (Shadow, Zero, Zbooo, Nike, Apoc, etc etc)

So if you scammed a fellow guild member it would be okay?

Not 11 years old, don't see this being an issue. If you have kids scamming in your guild, you have exactly that; a bunch of little bratty kids.

If you scammed a newbie and they got a screenshot of it, you wouldn't be kicked out?

And again, not 11 years old. Kid was stupid to get scammed, but I see no purpose in scamming because again, and I don't know if I've said this yet, but I'm not 11 years old. And no, I don't think I would get kicked out because thats a *singular* act. Guild has nothing to do with it. You people need to start seeing past the idea that one person speaks for the majority. Just because "Flow says So-and-so sucks, that means that all GoW thinks so-and-so sucks." No, that means I think he sucks, and he probably does.

this would be simply stating these are all the things with which one can comply or be kicked out of said guild. Much like the TOS to which you are already adhering. But in a more relaxed form.

Please I've read some of the 'rules' some of the other guilds have. No swearing...seriously? If you get censored on your own private forums for your guild or in your guild chat in game...it's time for a more mature guild, unless you like to talk about easy-bake ovens and rainbows. The most this will accomplish is a bunch of rules that are either completely common sense (be nice to everyone ok? seriously ok?) or rules that no one over the age of 15 will enforce. As you said, we're already adhering to the TOS from STS, but the day I allow a bunch of random internet people lying in their beds dictate my actions is the day I buy a rotary phone and join the WNBA.