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Thread: Suggestion: Engineers need a bit more ability to attack. Please consider these skills

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    Senior Member bronislav84's Avatar
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    Default Suggestion: Engineers need a bit more ability to attack. Please consider these skills

    Disclaimer: I am not into PVP as my main reason to play.

    I like support as much as the next player who enjoys helping others, but this will never fly in PVP. As it stands now an Engineer would get shot to pieces by Operatives. Physio once made a great post about the details. All the skills take time to work, and in that time a heck of a lot can happen. Like getting knocked back, stunlocked, and basically shot way too fast before Empathy or any of the DOTs work. And once you're in this pattern, you can get stuck that way easily.

    But wait, this isn't just a PVP problem. In PVE, I find that by the time I attack something and start to contribute damage, it's either already dead or somebody kills the mob I put my DOT on before it had the full effect. We also have no real AOEs, and are very vulnerable to being mobbed. There's just no way to clear five enemies attacking you fast enough, because although it's hard hitting, Transference breaks once the main target dies and the rest of the skills are single target. You just can't clear five guys fast enough before they kill you or waste a ton of pots. This is seen best in Corp 4 (I forget the number. I mean the one with the Commandos at the start) where there's a group right by the door which can even kill a level 21 during the cutscene in a full party. Back at level 13 this group handed me my second death, and pots are completely useless because they attack faster than an Engineer deals damage at that level, as well as quicker than Empathy heals. Engineer skills put out way less damage than the other two classes, by a large margin.

    So I have some skill suggestions to help balance out these faults.

    1. Transference should become a radius around the caster of the same distance as it currently has and it's damage and healing remain the same. Any friendly player within range of any affected mob gets healed for the total damage all mobs are taking, exactly like now. The only difference is that Transference should cease to cut out due to it's primary target dieing. Make it not require a target, and it's awesome.

    2. New skill: Electric Discharge. The Engineer draws power from the gadgets they carry and puts their hands out to their sides to let loose a discharge of electricity that instantly hits all targets in a point blank AOE around the caster. Same as PL Lightning, including the armor debuff, but different animation. Should look like electricity comes from their body outward in a radius. Each rank increases damage, and possibly the magnitude of the armor debuff. Basically same effects as PL Lightning but different animation. Int scaling and weapon damage scaling as usual. 3 second cooldown, 20 Energy cost, 12 radius.

    3. New skill: Turret Fabrication. Summon a small (About half the player's height) floating turret pet that will follow and shoot the same targets as it's owner is currently auto attacking until killed or desummoned by touching the skill again. The turret has it's own health (Scaling appropriately to the level of the player and content, based on rank) and should be healable by the heal skills that affect players. Ranks increase the health of the turret, armor up to 60 (10 per rank, starting with 10 at rank 1), and damage of the turret's single target beam attack. At rank 5 it gains a shield that is equal to half it's health, which slowly recovers over time. At rank 6 the turret's shield becomes equal to it's health and the shied's regeneration speed is doubled. The shield cannot be healed by anything and must come back on it's own. Any damage first hits the shield before hitting the pet. Scale all aspects of the pet on Int as usual, and possibly weapon damage. 30 second cooldown, 40 Energy cost. The cost and cooldown will mean that losing your pet immediately means you can't get it back right away and must make it last.

    If a shield is overpowered, then alternatively, the pet can gain a double rate of fire at rank 5 and a cone AOE rocket barrage at rank 6, with a 10 second internal cooldown on it's AOE. Though I honestly don't think the shield is overpowered, since it cannot be healed by any means other than regenerating on it's own and as a force field it should not have any damage mitigation at all. The pet's armor should only be counted when it's taking direct health damage, but the pet should be affected by Protection and the armor/DPS buff from Res and it's damage output should be affected by any debuffs on the target.

    4. The skills that deal damage should deal a bit more or get higher Int scaling. The heals are great, but the damage is just lacking. Transference should still hit the hardest out of the current group of skills, though.

    I believe this whould help with the damage discrepancy between Engineers and the other two classes and fits in with the technology expert theme of the class. Also I realize an attack that isn't a DOT would be a bit different, but I really think it's needed to allow the class to have less trouble when a bunch of enemies are attacking all at once.

    Please Devs, consider this.

    AL Kar | PL/SL Karaai | DL/AL Karai | SL Karaii | AL Karwar | PL Squishybirdie | PL Gotnorange

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    Forum Adept Buubuuftw's Avatar
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    Default

    I LOVE the turret idea and I think this should seriously be considered!

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    Forum Adept Raulur's Avatar
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    All depends on how Pain works in PvP. If it completely stuns in pvp like in pve, engineers will own. If not (and this is likely the case) it depends on how good you are at timing heals. Like I said in the other post, this is pure speculation. Nobody but the devs know for sure what pvp will be like.
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    Senior Member bronislav84's Avatar
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    Oh Pain will stun, but 3 seconds compared to all the other skills Op has? No contest.

    So only 2 people have an opinion besides me? Really, I think these suggestions would improve the class. Don't really NEED to follow #4 that badly, just the others would be a good start.

    AL Kar | PL/SL Karaai | DL/AL Karai | SL Karaii | AL Karwar | PL Squishybirdie | PL Gotnorange

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    Star Guard octavos's Avatar
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    I Like Kara, Lov the turret Idea

    It would be nice to purchase new ability's using plat after all the slots are full
    Last edited by octavos; 08-04-2011 at 11:19 AM.
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    Senior Member bronislav84's Avatar
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    Thank you for the support Ghost, but I really think having to buy more skills with plat goes against the optional-ness of it. If people need to spend plat to buy any skills that puts the non-plat player at too much of a disadvantage IMO. The game becomes pay to win, not free to play. When you MUST pay to be good, it's time to find another game. Paying should never be forced on people. I charged plat because I just wanted to, not because I wanted to be any better at the game. That is how it should be, at least in my opinion.

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    Turret agree

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    Star Guard octavos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronislav84 View Post
    Thank you for the support Ghost, but I really think having to buy more skills with plat goes against the optional-ness of it. If people need to spend plat to buy any skills that puts the non-plat player at too much of a disadvantage IMO. The game becomes pay to win, not free to play. When you MUST pay to be good, it's time to find another game. Paying should never be forced on people. I charged plat because I just wanted to, not because I wanted to be any better at the game. That is how it should be, at least in my opinion.
    I know what you mean, free to play, but like additional guns (This is at plat store, which you can just buy the best weapons), make extra ability's also.
    But, this is after all the slots have been filled tho.
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    I dont think the Engi will be as useless as you think. I would wait and see what the last 3 skills are before you get to worked up about it. What i can see being a "problem" is that a pvp engi will have to be skilled ALOT different then a pve Engi, so this "may" pose a problem to people who want to do both. But not for sure.

    I see the best option for pvp as a engi right now is surviving while your opponent dumps all his mana, then burn him down.
    And i can already see a build for that.
    And yes i play a engi.
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    Senior Member bronislav84's Avatar
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    It's only for now that those guns are the best. When SL gets purple and pink items they won't stay on top. It's why I haven't gotten one yet Ghost.

    Bread, the entire point of this thread is to help STS fill in some those last three skills. That, and fix an important dysfunction with Transference. If we wait until after official release, it will be too late. If you do the math, the third unknown skill should unlock at 26, which happens to be the elite level for the next level cap raise. Unless those skills are completely overpowered, which I kinda doubt will happen, my idea is likely to be better. If you're getting shot to pieces while being stunlocked, you can't make the other player waste his/her mana.

    Where's a Dev to comment when you need one? Really surprised they haven't commented yet.
    Last edited by bronislav84; 08-05-2011 at 04:39 PM.

    AL Kar | PL/SL Karaai | DL/AL Karai | SL Karaii | AL Karwar | PL Squishybirdie | PL Gotnorange

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    commando is prob best class right now... they have high armor and same kind of damage

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    I would think STS already have those last 3 skills thought of and developed. Just an assumption, but i think its a pretty good chance. All i am sayin is at level 21 max and your past knowledge of PL you are making assumptions about how the game will pan out. When this is clearly a different game. Wait until its released and we see the end product before you start asking for a class rebalance.

    Only my 2 cents.
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    Senior Member Ebalere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronislav84:371712
    It's only for now that those guns are the best. When SL gets purple and pink items they won't stay on top. It's why I haven't gotten one yet Ghost.

    Bread, the entire point of this thread is to help STS fill in some those last three skills. That, and fix an important dysfunction with Transference. If we wait until after official release, it will be too late. If you do the math, the third unknown skill should unlock at 26, which happens to be the elite level for the next level cap raise. Unless those skills are completely overpowered, which I kinda doubt will happen, my idea is likely to be better. If you're getting shot to pieces while being stunlocked, you can't make the other player waste his/her mana.

    Where's a Dev to comment when you need one? Really surprised they haven't commented yet.
    I'll bet my bottom dollar that the devs already know exactly what those last skills will be, and it wont be a turret. While the idea is cool, then what u have is a constantly attacking pet, leaving you free to heal, buff, and attack yourself. If they implement that, then they will need to implement a healer pet for ops. You don't know what the last 3 skills will be, they could be all aoe damage intensive skills. So before you start suggesting skills for the devs that already have them planned out, maybe just wait till level cap increases. I highly doubt you'll see pvp before then.

    As for pve, stick to your job and hang back and heal. This isn't a solo friendly game, and you're not supposed to dump your engi between 5 mobs, leave that to the commando. You think operatives dont get smoked by those same commandos? With less armor, a wack regen skill that barely does anything, and slightly higher dps than an equivalent engi who is properly set up? I think Operative have their own issues to deal with, and Commandos are the only well rounded class, with a nice mixture of buffs, aoe, and armor.

    bottom line: Leave the engi alone till we know what new skills are.
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    Senior Member bronislav84's Avatar
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    You people don't get it. When we DO find out what the next skills are, it will be too late to do anything about it.

    AL Kar | PL/SL Karaai | DL/AL Karai | SL Karaii | AL Karwar | PL Squishybirdie | PL Gotnorange

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