PVP Updates: We're going live! PART 3

[Legallyblonde]

I think a 40% damage reduction isn't too much but isn't too little.

Also (I like how no ones thought of this) but they could increase the damage the flying knives do. It's around 200-300 damage endgame. What about 500-600? That would compliment dagger rogues nicely.

[kinzmet]

If they could make it last longer for 1 to 2 more seconds, then it could work!

[Bira]

Kizmet that would be wonderful. I die a lot in elite maps because the gap between my nekro shield and razor is too long. I can imagine the rogues in pvp are facing the same issue. If razor last 2 seconds longer it would be perfect. I think it's fair because tanks can use nekro, jugg and heal with a lot of overlap and mages have a perfect shield cycle. Rogues need something similar.

[kinzmet]

Kizmet that would be wonderful. I die a lot in elite maps because the gap between my nekro shield and razor is too long. I can imagine the rogues in pvp are facing the same issue. If razor last 2 seconds longer it would be perfect. I think it's fair because tanks can use nekro, jugg and heal with a lot of overlap and mages have a perfect shield cycle. Rogues need something similar.

The only problem is, theres really no difference on charged and uncharged razors. They could make it different by having it last longer if charged IMO.

[aneshsinghblu]

are rogues goin get free respec scrolls.. .
so I could try this skill that I never used before in pvp

does that 10% dr have to be tied to mysteries . lower level rogues don't have 10 skill points for mysteries.
that will only " balance "(if it does make a difference)pvp at high levels

[Fredystern]

Warriors have 40-60% damage reduction? Mages has 50 I believe if not 55, rogues has 10? At least 25-20% reduction in razor will be fine.

Warr was a tank so they got a big damage reduction
Mage was a supporter than they should keep alive to supporting team
Rogue was a assassin that do lot of damage but lack of defense

Well i agree with you atleast give rogue 20% damage reduction, they deal alot of damage when using pierce on clash .-.

[Oaheuzihar]

Lol, the thing is this really does nothing to help rogues. Razor shield previously was charged ahead of time when the mage rush was coming. So all this does is help out the rogues that couldn't pre-plan in the first place.

Why do we get such nonsensical buffs but when it came time to buff sorcerer and warrior, y'all gave them every bit of survivability in the book? We rogues didn't even argue when they were given such huge buffs.

Nevertheless, at least this is better than the nox upgrade and it is a step in the right direction. However, there really needs to be some damage reduction attached. Even 25% damage reduction would be awesome to survive and make rogues have a place in clash. The reason being is that we have to drop nox just to use this skill. That means that there needs to be some advantage to it because we are killing things slower.

I don't mind giving up noxious for razor, but there needs to be damage reduction greater than 10% attached. Even 25% is plenty alongside this new addition. Using razor makes us kill things slower so we need to use it and survive long enough to make up for the missing damage of aimed shot.

Well said, but having damage reduction would take away from the "glass" part of a glass cannon. Glass cannons are supposed to dish out a ton of damage but die if they get hit more than once or twice.

Can somebody please explain how aimed shot supposedly got screwed over by the buff? I have a rogue alt who is stronger now because of the buff.

Lastly, cool it with the mage drama. It's getting us nowhere.

[Zeus]

Well said, but having damage reduction would take away from the "glass" part of a glass cannon. Glass cannons are supposed to dish out a ton of damage but die if they get hit more than once or twice.

Can somebody please explain how aimed shot supposedly got screwed over by the buff? I have a rogue alt who is stronger now because of the buff.

Lastly, cool it with the mage drama. It's getting us nowhere.

If you're spamming aimed shot, yes you will hit harder. However, if you're charged each aimed then there's a difference in damage. That difference in damage is usually what breaks tanks or sorcerers.

[raw]

Trying very hard to understand how this increases rogue survivability in any way.

It's a step in the right direction, but I agree... this doesn't help very much. If Razor shield were to reduce damage by 50% then that would be something noteworthy. I don't think vroom has tried to pvp as a rogue, else he'd see how utterly useless we are in comparison to tanks/mages.

And to Saf's point, the only reason I charged Razor was for the stun immunity, so what incentive do I have to charge this skill....?

[Breakingbadxx]

Vroom, just gather average endgame rogue gear on a rogue and play tdm for a few minutes.

Even 1 minute of being a endgame rogue in tdm should give years worth of valuable discussion suggestions for the class.

I don't think this is asking for too much.

Thanks.

[Shelllz]

Vroom, just gather average endgame rogue gear on a rogue and play tdm for a few minutes.

Even 1 minute of being a endgame rogue in tdm should give years worth of valuable discussion suggestions for the class.

I don't think this is asking for too much.

Thanks.

So now u care about the average geared rogues? Come on. If dmg is buffed this average rogue will hit as hard as Zeus or imback. And what about above average geared rogue? U are a tank....are u ok with ur unbreakable jug being broken by an aimed shot? If jug will be broken the next class to complain about buff in forums will be tanks. Never ending cycle. Buff the rogue armor give them 25% dmg reduction on razor, they will be tanks while having nekro shield on. How is this a glass cannon?


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[Breakingbadxx]

So now u care about the average geared rogues? Come on. If dmg is buffed this average rogue will hit as hard as Zeus or imback. And what about above average geared rogue? U are a tank....are u ok with ur unbreakable jug being broken by an aimed shot? If jug will be broken the next class to complain about buff in forums will be tanks.

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No one is asking to be given the ability to break warriors juggernaut. The rogue community is currently asking to be given a chance to participate in groups in PvP.

Being excluded from most of PvE is something we warriors have faced for a long time.

I know how it feels.

[Zeus]

So now u care about the average geared rogues? Come on. If dmg is buffed this average rogue will hit as hard as Zeus or imback. And what about above average geared rogue? U are a tank....are u ok with ur unbreakable jug being broken by an aimed shot? If jug will be broken the next class to complain about buff in forums will be tanks. Never ending cycle. Buff the rogue armor give them 25% dmg reduction on razor, they will be tanks while having nekro shield on. How is this a glass cannon?


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Damage reduction does not stack, so they will not be tanks.

[Shelllz]

No one is asking to be given the ability to break warriors juggernaut. The rogue community is currently asking to be given a chance to participate in groups in PvP.

Being excluded from most of PvE is something we warriors have faced for a long time.

I know how it feels.

I understand what you are saying. But if dmg buffed, rogues will be free to break jug and break mage shield even faster than they do now. With even more dmg reduction they will turn in to mini tanks.
I'm ok with giving some dmg reduction on razor. But since when rogue armor is supposed to be higher than mage? My armor is about 1600. Rogues with mm have armor of well over 2100. If I'm lucky and I crit on a nekro shielded rogue with that armor I do 1500-1700 dmg. While rogue critting me on just a nekro shield kills me with 1 shot(that's with 40% nekro shield dmg reduction) i have 6k hp .......I just don't understand the big deal here. Rogues already are cannons with more armor than mages.

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[Zeus]

I understand what you are saying. But if dmg buffed, rogues will be free to break jug and break mage shield even faster than they do now. With even more dmg reduction they will turn in to mini tanks.
I'm ok with giving some dmg reduction on razor. But since when rogue armor is supposed to be higher than mage? My armor is about 1600. Rogues with mm have armor of well over 2100. If I'm lucky and I crit on a nekro shielded rogue with that armor I do 1500-1700 dmg. While rogue critting me on just a nekro shield kills me with 1 shot(that's with 40% nekro shield dmg reduction) i have 6k hp .......I just don't understand the big deal here. Rogues already are cannons with more armor than mages.

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You cannot compare your gear to a maxed out rogues gear. A comparable sorcerer has 1800+ armor with MM.

A rogue doesn't one shot a Mage through Nekro shield either. A one combo is possible, but that's if a rogue is extremely lucky.

[Shelllz]

You cannot compare your gear to a maxed out rogues gear. A comparable sorcerer has 1800+ armor with MM.

Ok........yet I still clash with 1600 armor and beat mages who have way better gear than I do. So why can't I compare? None of our mages have 1800 armor ......
Your armor is 600 more than mine. Just saying.

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[Zeus]

Ok........yet I still clash with 1600 armor and beat mages who have way better gear than I do. So why can't I compare? None of our mages have 1800 armor ......

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It's because balance is based on what stats can be achieved, not what stats you have. You cannot set balance based on your stats. You take a look at the theoretical maximum and then balance. Then you take a look at mid range to mid range and then balance.

You do not compare high range to mid range and expect balance. Make sense? If you have low armor and are not maxed out, there's nothing wrong with the balance. It only means that you need to work on your sorcerers stats.

Thanks for bringing that up. That's a big issue that comes into play when talking about balance. People complain so and so is killing them but do not look at the disparity of stats.

My armor is higher than yours because I went through the extra measures and bought items that gave me armor. Sorcerer also has the same opportunity, you just have chosen not to do that.

[Shelllz]

It's because balance is based on what stats can be achieved, not what stats you have. You cannot set balance based on your stats. You take a look at the theoretical maximum and then balance. Then you take a look at mid range to mid range and then balance.

You do not compare high range to mid range and expect balance.

Yet, you are sitting here complaining about mages (with average gear) posing a threat to u in a clash. This is mind blowing tbh.

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[Zeus]

Yet, you are sitting here complaining about mages (with average gear) posing a threat to u in a clash. This is mind blowing tbh.

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I'm complaining about the fact that rogues do not have a place in PvP. This is a wide known fact and something that you cannot deny. Even developers have acknowledged that's an issue. Denying it at this point is futile. Like it or not, we are going to get changes for our class that make it worth playing. The same way that sorcerers got changes to their class that made a sorcerer worth playing.

Please comprehend my points and do not twist my words. Thank you.

[Justg]

PLEASE keep this conversation civil. We're very tired of moderating bickering.

These posts are for us to communicate with you and gather information. Thanks for staying on point.