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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Requesting the return of PvP Updates: Proposed Balance Changes (7/21/16)

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    Forum Adept Breakingbadxx's Avatar
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    Default Requesting the return of PvP Updates: Proposed Balance Changes (7/21/16)

    I would like the developers to bring back these suggestions and fixes they proposed.

    Vroom pointed out:

    Currently in PvP, healing and damage are scaled based on your level. At level 56 you deal 50% damage and heal for 50%. We believe this has overall resulted in better PvP battles. Thanks to all the posts from the community we've identified aspects of survivability which do not have any kind of reduction. These are Arcane Shield's Damage Reduction, the health increase from Juggernaut, and the length of invulnerability from Horn of Renew.

    Here is our thought on why Damage Reduction not scaling becomes a problem. If I'm a Rogue (or any character) and use an attack which deals 1000 damage to a Sorcerer with Arcane Shield, that damage is reduced because Arcane Shield gives Damage Reduction. Let's say my Arcane Shield gives me 55% Damage Reduction. This means that 1000 damage becomes 450 damage. Now if you include the 50% damage decrease in place in PvP, this 1000 damage drops all the way to 225 damage. Having the damage decrease in PvP compounds the effectiveness of my Arcane Shield, in a way that players dealing damage can't keep up with.

    The health increase of Juggernaut works similarly. Juggernaut increases your health by 25% of your armor, and with the Ignore Pain upgrade gives you 40% (or 65%) damage reduction while active. Let's say I receive 1000 health from Juggernaut (meaning I have 4000 armor). Normally this would mean I can take 1 more hit from that Rogue dealing 1000 damage. Taking 40% Damage Reduction into account, the Rogue's 1000 damage would be reduced to 600 damage, so I would be able to take 2 hits before losing my Juggernaut health. Now add in the PvP damage decrease, and the Rogue only deals 300 damage. Now a single use of Juggernaut means I can take 4 more hits from the Rogue.

    Both of the given cases are further lowered by the natural armor the Sorcerer or Warrior has, further decreasing the amount of damage they receive. We want to address these abilities so that the scaling of survivability matches with the scaling of damage and healing.

    Proposed Changes:
    1) The damage reduction of Arcane Shield will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 the reduction will remain 45% for uncharged and 55% for charged. At level 56 the damage reduction will be half that value, 22.5% for uncharged and 27.5% for charged. The health of the shield will not be adjusted as part of this change.
    2) The amount of bonus health that Juggernaut grants will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 Juggernaut will grant 17.5% health uncharged and 25% health charged. At level 56 Juggernaut will grant 8.75% health uncharged and 12.5% health charged. The Damage Reduction gained from Juggernaut will not be adjusted as part of this change.

    This all makes sense so why was the fix for these not implemented?

    Requesting a developer response.

    - your friendly neighborhood Balanceboy.
    Last edited by Breakingbadxx; 08-07-2016 at 08:37 AM.

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    Senior Member will0's Avatar
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    no thanks to breaking mage only surviving skill (arcane shield). I feel it is fair as it is.. with your op 46 arcane sword + glint stone set

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    Quote Originally Posted by will0 View Post
    no thanks to breaking mage only surviving skill (arcane shield). I feel it is fair as it is.. with your op 46 arcane sword + glint stone set
    Arcane shield absorbing 2x more damage than it should be is not balance.

    The lava proc of the lvl 46 arcane sword has already been nerfed in damage and stun btw.
    Last edited by Breakingbadxx; 08-07-2016 at 08:39 AM.

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    Bring back the rogue economy!

    - Living in a delusional state -

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim Weibin View Post
    Bring back the rogue economy!
    Actually, this is about something which the developers figured out was affecting PvP balance and a fix should have been implemented but it was instead forgotten.

    Vroom literally gives an extremely detailed and valid explanation of why such changes should happen. What reason is there for abandoning this?
    Last edited by Breakingbadxx; 08-07-2016 at 09:35 AM.

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    Senior Member Lawpvp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx View Post
    I would like the developers to bring back these suggestions and fixes they proposed.

    Vroom pointed out:

    Currently in PvP, healing and damage are scaled based on your level. At level 56 you deal 50% damage and heal for 50%. We believe this has overall resulted in better PvP battles. Thanks to all the posts from the community we've identified aspects of survivability which do not have any kind of reduction. These are Arcane Shield's Damage Reduction, the health increase from Juggernaut, and the length of invulnerability from Horn of Renew.

    Here is our thought on why Damage Reduction not scaling becomes a problem. If I'm a Rogue (or any character) and use an attack which deals 1000 damage to a Sorcerer with Arcane Shield, that damage is reduced because Arcane Shield gives Damage Reduction. Let's say my Arcane Shield gives me 55% Damage Reduction. This means that 1000 damage becomes 450 damage. Now if you include the 50% damage decrease in place in PvP, this 1000 damage drops all the way to 225 damage. Having the damage decrease in PvP compounds the effectiveness of my Arcane Shield, in a way that players dealing damage can't keep up with.

    The health increase of Juggernaut works similarly. Juggernaut increases your health by 25% of your armor, and with the Ignore Pain upgrade gives you 40% (or 65%) damage reduction while active. Let's say I receive 1000 health from Juggernaut (meaning I have 4000 armor). Normally this would mean I can take 1 more hit from that Rogue dealing 1000 damage. Taking 40% Damage Reduction into account, the Rogue's 1000 damage would be reduced to 600 damage, so I would be able to take 2 hits before losing my Juggernaut health. Now add in the PvP damage decrease, and the Rogue only deals 300 damage. Now a single use of Juggernaut means I can take 4 more hits from the Rogue.

    Both of the given cases are further lowered by the natural armor the Sorcerer or Warrior has, further decreasing the amount of damage they receive. We want to address these abilities so that the scaling of survivability matches with the scaling of damage and healing.

    Proposed Changes:
    1) The damage reduction of Arcane Shield will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 the reduction will remain 45% for uncharged and 55% for charged. At level 56 the damage reduction will be half that value, 22.5% for uncharged and 27.5% for charged. The health of the shield will not be adjusted as part of this change.
    2) The amount of bonus health that Juggernaut grants will scale with player level (in PvP only) at the same rate damage is scaled. At level 1 Juggernaut will grant 17.5% health uncharged and 25% health charged. At level 56 Juggernaut will grant 8.75% health uncharged and 12.5% health charged. The Damage Reduction gained from Juggernaut will not be adjusted as part of this change.

    This all makes sense so why was the fix for these not implemented?

    Requesting a developer response.

    - your friendly neighborhood Balanceboy.
    +1

    It was abandoned due to mages thinking they know more about rogue balance than rogue players do. Now that mages are on top they want to keep rogues down. Fact

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawpvp View Post
    +1

    It was abandoned due to mages thinking they know more about rogue balance than rogue players do. Now that mages are on top they want to keep rogues down. Fact
    This is exactly what is happening. Funny thing is rogues were never so cruel to sorcerers when they were weak. Sorcerers literally do not want rogues in PvP. It's ridiculous and tiresome, tbh.
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    On another note, throughout AL's time, warriors and rogues have suffered nerfs left, right and center.

    I don't remember the mage class ever receiving a nerf. Only huge buffs.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    I'm not btw.

    More reason not to yield to pressure from the mage community concerning a fix that could be considered a nerf to their class.
    Last edited by Breakingbadxx; 08-07-2016 at 11:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx View Post
    On another note, throughout AL's time, warriors and rogues have suffered nerfs left, right and center.

    I don't remember the mage class ever receiving a nerf. Only huge buffs.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    I'm not btw.
    The only time was at the start of PvP.
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    It's funny mages were the weakest class for years and now that we're useful too the same five people cry to have us nerfed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    The only time was at the start of PvP.
    What was it for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plqgue View Post
    It's funny mages were the weakest class for years and now that we're useful too the same five people cry to have us nerfed
    This is a problem the developers discovered. I'm just bringing it back to light.

    The reasons Vroom highlighted for the changes listed are valid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx View Post
    This is a problem the developers discovered. I'm just bringing it back to light.

    The reasons Vroom highlighted for the changes listed are valid.
    And the reasons they trashed those proposals for were also valid...

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    Yap nekro shields damage reduction too by 50% plz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plqgue View Post
    And the reasons they trashed those proposals for were also valid...
    With so many calls for a class restriction to solve the issue of mage and tank stacking, the reasons for trashing such proposals clearly weren't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx View Post
    With so many calls for a class restriction to solve the issue of mage and tank stacking, the reasons for trashing such proposals clearly weren't.
    It's clear the developers think differently as these changes weren't implemented because it would go right back to what we went through for three years
    rogue legends

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plqgue View Post
    It's clear the developers think differently as these changes weren't implemented because it would go right back to what we went through for three years
    rogue legends
    False comments such as "Rogue legends" from the mage community was most likely the reason the changes were not implemented.

    Keep your drama out of this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx View Post
    Comments such as "Rogue legends" from the mage community was most likely the reason the changes were not implemented.

    Keep your drama out of this thread.
    It's drama to have an opinion?
    This is why nobody takes you five seriously
    You just can't handle other people have opinions on what affects all three classes..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plqgue View Post
    It's drama to have an opinion?
    This is why nobody takes you five seriously
    You just can't handle other people have opinions on what affects all three classes..
    You used the comment "rogue legends" with the intent to cause drama and probably get this thread locked. Refrain from using such comments.

    A developer may as well edit it for the intent of drama.

    Additionally, are you not the same mage continuously causing drama on balance threads with your "opinion"?
    Last edited by Breakingbadxx; 08-07-2016 at 11:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx View Post
    What was it for?
    Freeze and stuns used to work for their full PvE duration.

    Anyways, I spoke with Vroom and rogue buffs are coming but they're not opening up discussion threads because of the very reason you mentioned. So sit tight and let us see what the developers bring.
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