Rogue Buff

[justhell]

Sorcerers actually have higher HP than rogues, for your information. Rogues have the fastest cooldown skills in the game because they are the DPS class. As a result though, they cannot take more than 1-2 hits without dying.

All of mages? Most of them? Or just few of them?

Is that mages u talkin bout pure int? Or what that rogs u talkin bout gears type? Most rogues I know prefer int as 2nd stat option rather than str.

Most rog I run with can hold 2-3 hit which is give them a time to kite and tap pot,they can do this all the time. Most mage can hold 0-1 hit without shield (in hard elite its no way mages shield can hold for 15 sec,about 3-10 sec maybe). For me ur statment sound like all Mages have better HP than all Rogues,which is false.

[Kingofninjas]

All of mages? Most of them? Or just few of them?

Is that mages u talkin bout pure int? Or what that rogs u talkin bout gears type? Most rogues I know prefer int as 2nd stat option rather than str.

Most rog I run with can hold 2-3 hit which is give them a time to kite and tap pot,they can do this all the time. Most mage can hold 0-1 hit without shield (in hard elite its no way mages shield can hold for 15 sec,about 3-10 sec maybe). For me ur statment sound like all Mages have better HP than all Rogues,which is false.

Equally geared, ALL MAGES have better health and damage than rogues. Give a rogue and mage the same gear (potency for rogue brutality for mage, int and str and secondary stats for rogue and mage respectively) and the mage will always have more hp and damage.

[justhell]

Equally geared, ALL MAGES have better health and damage than rogues. Give a rogue and mage the same gear (potency for rogue brutality for mage, int and str and secondary stats for rogue and mage respectively) and the mage will always have more hp and damage.

First of all i never state anything bout EQUALLY GEARED.

2nd not all ppl using same gears and have same build.

3rd based on ur statment,I can pull a conclusion that rogues it self to choose have less hp than mage not the system.

4th zeus never mentioned bout gears.

5th on first paragraph he/she also say that "the point is not gears"

Last,on my post that u quote I never say anything bout damage.

[Gouiwaa9000]

Rouges are meant to be glass cannons , the class with the lowest hp and armor , but with the highest damage . If rouge will recive a buff , it must be a single-strike damage buff . Here you are asking for almost 6s on invicibility , enough time to combo 3 times and break mages shield/kill the mage . So whats gonna happen is mages shiled and wars judg will be broken before a decently geared rouge can take damage , giving a 100% chance win in a vs fight. Also , 6s in clash is enough to run trough the other team , combo once and run back , without loosing 1% of hp.

This is abit to op.

[Fredystern]

First of all i never state anything bout EQUALLY GEARED.

2nd not all ppl using same gears and have same build.

3rd based on ur statment,I can pull a conclusion that rogues it self to choose have less hp than mage not the system.

4th zeus never mentioned bout gears.

5th on first paragraph he/she also say that "the point is not gears"

Last,on my post that u quote I never say anything bout damage.

In 41 cap most rogue took str as thier second stat after dex, but now they choosing int, idk why :/

[justhell]

In 41 cap most rogue took str as thier second stat after dex, but now they choosing int, idk why :/

Maybe bcoz they choose to having more mana for spaming skill,just maybe.

[Fredystern]

Maybe bcoz they choose to having more mana to spaming skill,just maybe.

I wonder why they need msna to spamming skill when they crying they didnt getting slot in clash cause of stacking mage :/ why not they just use str to make themself useful again so they didnt very paper, dont say rogue lack of mana, i was saying when there is a mage, didnt got slot cause of stacking mage right? So there was alot of mage right?

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[Safiras]

I wonder why they need msna to spamming skill when they crying they didnt getting slot in clash cause of stacking mage :/ why not they just use str to make themself useful again so they didnt very paper, dont say rogue lack of mana, i was saying when there is a mage, didnt got slot cause of stacking mage right? So there was alot of mage right?

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Sorry but... have you played a rogue? Try to gear up a rogue first, play around with the stats then try to run around in PvP. With full brutality gear and no house buffs even with a pet that grants you int on happiness bonus you would end up with less than 2k mana. That would run out if 4 or 5 combos. In a full-on 4v4 or 5v5 with 2 tanks, that would run out Even before anyone's shield or jugg expired. Also, as a mage, wouldn't you be frustrated if this stupid rogue ran out of mana all the time, and you had to use your heal just for that rogue? Mages have to time their heal according to the whole team's mana and HP levels, not just that of the rogue. And if a rogue runs out of mana, she is a dead/useless rogue.

Also, int gives HP, mana and a small amount of base damage for rogues. Just looking at HP, 1 str point gives 10 HP while 1 int point gives 5 HP. From experience, 200-300 HP more does not make a significant difference to survival in PvP. Thus on balance, most rogues choose a predominantly dex/int set up for gear.

Mage stacks in PvP don't necessarily mean that the rogue gets infinite mana. We've all heard of mages telling people "we are not mana cows". Also, in mage stacks usually at least one mage drops heal for an additional attack skill because they expect the other mage(s) to heal.

Many assumptions, not many facts. I suggest you try to play a rogue first then see how it works out in PvP.

[Fredystern]

Sorry but... have you played a rogue? Try to gear up a rogue first, play around with the stats then try to run around in PvP. With full brutality gear and no house buffs even with a pet that grants you int on happiness bonus you would end up with less than 2k mana. That would run out if 4 or 5 combos. In a full-on 4v4 or 5v5 with 2 tanks, that would run out Even before anyone's shield or jugg expired. Also, as a mage, wouldn't you be frustrated if this stupid rogue ran out of mana all the time, and you had to use your heal just for that rogue? Mages have to time their heal according to the whole team's mana and HP levels, not just that of the rogue. And if a rogue runs out of mana, she is a dead/useless rogue.

Also, int gives HP, mana and a small amount of base damage for rogues. Just looking at HP, 1 str point gives 10 HP while 1 int point gives 5 HP. From experience, 200-300 HP more does not make a significant difference to survival in PvP. Thus on balance, most rogues choose a predominantly dex/int set up for gear.

Mage stacks in PvP don't necessarily mean that the rogue gets infinite mana. We've all heard of mages telling people "we are not mana cows". Also, in mage stacks usually at least one mage drops heal for an additional attack skill because they expect the other mage(s) to heal.

Many assumptions, not many facts. I suggest you try to play a rogue first then see how it works out in PvP.

If you think i didnt play rogue in my brackets you wrong, i play rogue when only my team need it, i was usually run with dex int gear but i spent some of my skill points in str after i think my dex is enough and its enough to keep me alive when piercing to a mage in clash and waiting for war heal, but yes i was running out of mana so fast, but i always got 2 mage on my team, 1 mage for healing my mana and warr, and 1more focus on health, i wont say anything if i didnt play it, i play all job if you want to know that why i know who need buff or nerf. Need i tell you my pvp experience using warr and rogue in some lvl?

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[Zeus]

First of all i never state anything bout EQUALLY GEARED.

2nd not all ppl using same gears and have same build.

3rd based on ur statment,I can pull a conclusion that rogues it self to choose have less hp than mage not the system.

4th zeus never mentioned bout gears.

5th on first paragraph he/she also say that "the point is not gears"

Last,on my post that u quote I never say anything bout damage.

Err, the point is about gears. You cannot compare an undergeared mage to an overgeared rogue and call it balance.

If you think i didnt play rogue in my brackets you wrong, i play rogue when only my team need it, i was usually run with dex int gear but i spent some of my skill points in str after i think my dex is enough and its enough to keep me alive when piercing to a mage in clash and waiting for war heal, but yes i was running out of mana so fast, but i always got 2 mage on my team, 1 mage for healing my mana and warr, and 1more focus on health, i wont say anything if i didnt play it, i play all job if you want to know that why i know who need buff or nerf. Need i tell you my pvp experience using warr and rogue in some lvl?

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You're playing a twink rogue which has a damage buff in PvP. End game rogues have nothing of the sort. Sorcerers there also hit a lot less than they do at endgame.

[Breakingbadxx]

If you think i didnt play rogue in my brackets you wrong, i play rogue when only my team need it, i was usually run with dex int gear but i spent some of my skill points in str after i think my dex is enough and its enough to keep me alive when piercing to a mage in clash and waiting for war heal, but yes i was running out of mana so fast, but i always got 2 mage on my team, 1 mage for healing my mana and warr, and 1more focus on health, i wont say anything if i didnt play it, i play all job if you want to know that why i know who need buff or nerf. Need i tell you my pvp experience using warr and rogue in some lvl?

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Twink rogues are very different from endgame rogues. Someone pointed out that at around lvl 15 twinking, rogues are unkillable in PvP to the point of a 4 rogue stack being impossible to beat by a 2 tank 2 mage team. A very different situation from endgame indeed, so I don't think twink PvP comparisons are that useful.

[Fredystern]

Twink rogues are very different from endgame rogues. Someone pointed out that at around lvl 15 twinking, rogues are unkillable in PvP to the point of a 4 rogue stack being impossible to beat by a 2 tank 2 mage team. A very different situation from endgame indeed, so I don't think twink PvP comparisons are that useful.

I know the difference between twink 15 and 56 was alot, but how about twink 48? It was nearly same with 56 in rogue aspect, but very different in mage and warr

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[Breakingbadxx]

At endgame, a geared rogue has a mana pool of around 2000 (around the same as a geared warrior). Compared to the mana pool of an "equally" geared mage of 6000+.

That 2000 mana will expire after using around 10 skills, which makes the dependance on hanging around with a mage even more. Therefore, INT will be necessary for this class if they wish to be more useful, not because they don't want more HP.

Furthermore, most mages choose to boost their INT and STR for the specific reason of the arcane shield becoming more powerful by doing so. Not necessarily because they desire HP more than rogues.

[Trenton]

I just don't get why rogues are so against the fact of using razor shield, unless it's just because it's no good. They have to give up a damage skill just like mages. I get that mages have always required a shield and that rogues would now have to get used to one "less skill," but if razor shield were to give 40%-45% damage reduction for 10-12 seconds and act like an arcane shield (minus the 2 seconds invulnerability), I'm thinking this would solve the problem of them dying like they do right now. I don't think it should be 55% like a mages' shield because rogues do deal more damage more quickly, but they need some kind of damage reduction to be able to live long enough to blast some damage and get out of the line of fire.

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[Zeus]

I just don't get why rogues are so against the fact of using razor shield, unless it's just because it's no good. They have to give up a damage skill just like mages. I get that mages have always required a shield and that rogues would now have to get used to one "less skill," but if razor shield were to give 40%-45% damage reduction for 10-12 seconds and act like an arcane shield (minus the 2 seconds invulnerability), I'm thinking this would solve the problem of them dying like they do right now. I don't think it should be 55% like a mages' shield because rogues do deal more damage more quickly, but they need some kind of damage reduction to be able to live long enough to blast some damage and get out of the line of fire.

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Right now it's because of the fact that in PvP you are only really using aimed and nox. If you use SP, you will die. If razor gets DR though, it makes SP viable to use without dying immediately so this could work.

[Imback Al]

Rogues against 3 mages in clash have no use. All the mages have to do is shield, cross tank, fireball lightning..rogues need either a major armor buff, or a major damage reduction buff. Otherwise 3 mages can just keep crushing rogue. Atm the only way for a rogue to kill 3 Mage is on cd. Die, rj, kill on cd

[Trenton]

Right now it's because of the fact that in PvP you are only really using aimed and nox. If you use SP, you will die. If razor gets DR though, it makes SP viable to use without dying immediately so this could work.

Sadly enough, I forgot about SP. However, with making razor shield get DR would you still want to use SP? And what would you sacrifice? Heal? Or are rogues REALLY not wanting razor shield to have the damage reduction?

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[Breakingbadxx]

Sadly enough, I forgot about SP. However, with making razor shield get DR would you still want to use SP? And what would you sacrifice? Heal? Or are rogues REALLY not wanting razor shield to have the damage reduction?

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Should we ask the many rogues that asked for or supported a request for a damage reduction buff to the razor shield?

[Trenton]

Should we ask the many rogues that asked for or supported a request for a damage reduction buff to the razor shield?

I get that, thank you for so sarcastically responding to a general question that was misguided by stating that rogues want to also use shadow piercer. Maybe a rogue should answer me, rather than you.

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[Sweetsatured]

And OP mages have high stats too. The point is not gear, but the fact that there is an imbalance. Bye bye!

Sorcerers actually have higher HP than rogues, for your information. Rogues have the fastest cooldown skills in the game because they are the DPS class. As a result though, they cannot take more than 1-2 hits without dying.

Ok, buff rogues then, give they invunerability, that will only make warriors more useless at PvE